Six Nations Thread

ddraver

hmm, Walsh isnt so bad....

sketchley

The Beginner wrote:

Good selection Sketchley, but I'd have Ashton starting.....despite current dodgy form.

hmmm if I was picking Ashton (at 14), I'd be tempted to play Wade at 11, Brown 15 and still bench Tulagi although he's done nothing wrong, becauseI want to see 36 playing at 13 as power alone will not unlock the welsh defence. Maybe start with Ashton and put Wade on the bench but I don't really see Wade as an impact sub, get him on at the start and have him create havoc then bring Ashton on once we're ahead.

I think a 14/15 of Ashton / Brown would be extreemly potent pairing as Ashton is at his best playing off an attacking full back (think Foden) and Goode despite being a great player is not that kind of full back. Likewise I think Wade / Brown would also be a quite Potent. I'd also reall like to see Tulagi play on wing, letting the creative centre (36) and fullback (MB) unlock the welsh defence and have Tulagi finish it off. Problem play Tulagi at 13 is the back three get frozen out of the game because he backs himself to break the gain line. It'll never happen though!

I just hope we attempt to take onthe Welsh rather than try to contain them, as that might be a mistake.....

Sewinman

Anyone going? I am, with my old man. Wales by 10.

Flyingbogey

I'm glad Wade has had a mention. I'm not an avid follower of the premiership but from what I've seen he appears to be a class finisher. And on the League/Union debate, I've played both to a decent level, (amateur), League is harder phisically, tiring but fewer knocks as fewer pile ups. It def. improved my basic skills and brought up my union, noticed by team mates and coaches. Had to sell my tickets for Sat as I couldn't get off work.
England by 10. Tenner on the result CJ?

t4tomo

If your going to drop Ashton, then Strettle would be the man to bring in, he's been right on form with Sarries of late, whereas Ashton's form is woeful.

I wouldn't put Tualagi on the wing, make a choice between him and Twelvetrees (why the 36 moniker - he's not irish?) and have the other on the bench.

Wade is good with the ball in hand, but North and Cuthbertson would be rubbing their hands with glee if they thought that was all that was between them and the try line.

sketchley

Premiership try scorers thie season, Wade is well ahead

9 Christian Wade
6 Jamie Elliott
6 David Lemi
6 Adam Thompstone
5 Daniel Care
5 Ugo Monye
5 David Strettle
4 Tom Biggs
4 Mike Brown

Although Strettle has 5 in 2013 compared to Wade's 4.

Agreed Wade might be problem in defence but strettle is hardly a good defender. With Tulagi and Brown in the back three I think you get a bit of balance. But you are right North and Cuthbertson would much prefer to be running at Wade than Ashton, that being said I think they rather defend against Ashton, Brown, Goode, than Tulagi, Wade, Brown. I really don't think england are going to win this be standing off and waiting for mistakes, turnovers, we need to attack! I'd like to see SL start with an creative attacking team and then bring on the defensive guys later to close out the game. But I think it's much more likely to be the other way round and the Welsh will be expecting exactly that. That being said I don't think the Welsh will tire and if England think the game will then open up in the last quarter and bring on the creative player then the will be in for s hock, if anything Wlaes will be hoping it'll be the other way round England will tire, and it will open up for them in the last quarter. England need to get ahead quickly and stay there to make the Welsh play.

Difficult game to call, I'd much rather of played them in the first round.

Just looking at the EPS squad and Wade is not in it (I thought he was). So that's that and he won't be playing as SL cannot pick him. The only back three players available are Brown, Goode, Ashton, Foden and Strettle. With this in mind my team for weekend again with who I think SL will pick in brackets.

1. Marler
2. Hartley (T Youngs)
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. Launchbury
6. Croft
7. Robshaw (c)
8. Wood
9. Care (B Youngs)
10. Farrell
11. Tulagi (Brown)
12. 36 (Barritt)
13. Barritt (Tulagi)
14. Ashton
15. Brown (Goode)

16. T Youngs (Hartley)
17. Vunipola
18. Wilson
19. Lawes
20. Haskell
21. B Youngs (Care)
22. Burns (36)
23. Goode (Flood)

Stag on

Very little chance of Stuart L changing the team radically at such late notice, expect Ben Youngs, Farrell (if fit) to come back in. At lock it will be whoever out of Lawes, Parling and Launchbury that is fit.

With Brad Barritt and Alex Goode the back line does not have a huge amount of menace about it with ball in hand. Mike Brown has been superb with and without the ball, just look at his stats for defenders beaten, and at full time on Sunday he turned the ball over, just one example of his superb performance at the ruck. Personally, and I don’t think this will happen, I’d stick him at 15. So many good wingers around in the premiership at the minute, Ashton will feel under threat but I expect they will keep faith with him for Saturday too. The coaching team seem to go for people with an all round game who are disruptive in defence (e.g. Brown) over an out and out speed merchant who may not have the defensive game. Fair enough, look at the France game where defence led to the only try for Manu T.

The England defensive system has generally been superb even if the tackling hasn’t been in the last 2 matches. It’s pretty much the same system that Saracens play. Will be interesting to see how it fares against the Welsh carrying game that was so impressive against Scotland.

A close game but I reckon Wales will take it by 10+ points and thus the championship. It will be another step in the building process towards RWC 2015 for England who of all the nations in the competition have the massive challenge of 3 matches against the other home nations which are seen as ‘the big one’.

I’m at Pennyhill Park tonight where England are staying so if I see any of them it will be a quick wink and ‘good luck on Saturday boys’

ddraver

Stag on wrote:

It will be another step in the building process towards RWC 2015 for England who of all the nations in the competition have the massive challenge of 3 matches against the other home nations which are seen as ‘the big one’.

You re the second person to bring that up to me recently....I think it's an excellent point and arguably something in England's favour on Saturday (and why we remain the only NH team to have won a world Cup, although I'd argue that France were denied a fair shot last time).

Stag on

A slightly O/T question but does anyone know a decent rugby player statistics website? I'm after information on things like metres gained per match, offloads, tackles made/missed per match, kicking yards gained per kick etc. A quick google didnt turn up much relevant info.

It would be interesting to do some Lions 'head to heads' in some key positions.

t4tomo

Stag on wrote:

A slightly O/T question but does anyone know a decent rugby player statistics website? I'm after information on things like metres gained per match, offloads, tackles made/missed per match, kicking yards gained per kick etc. A quick google didnt turn up much relevant info.

It would be interesting to do some Lions 'head to heads' in some key positions.

OPTA

Stag on

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21784224

Youngs and Farrell back in as predicted. Marler at 1, Crofty at 6.

t4tomo

ddraver wrote:

Stag on wrote:

It will be another step in the building process towards RWC 2015 for England who of all the nations in the competition have the massive challenge of 3 matches against the other home nations which are seen as ‘the big one’.

You re the second person to bring that up to me recently....I think it's an excellent point and arguably something in England's favour on Saturday (and why we remain the only NH team to have won a world Cup, although I'd argue that France were denied a fair shot last time).

Surely England won the WC in 03 because
a) they were the best team in the world at that time and
b) they didn't have a chunk of bad luck to deny them.

Other NH teams haven't been in the position where they were the best team at the time and didn't get enough luck on the way to win the thing. France have come nearest with the odd heroic semi final victory but never been able to reproduce it. Arguably England were also the best team around whenever it was at home in Dean richards ? Rob Andrew era, but we stuffed up our tactics vs Aus.

I.e my premise is the best team should win, unless the luck goes against them (ir they choke / get poisoned ala the all blacks every 4 years except last time)

ddraver

Ah but does b) decrease when almost every game you play is a "Crunch Match"?

Outside of genuine rugby fans, who really cares who wins France v Ireland or Wales v Scotland? No one!

Those 4 vs England is THE GAME for each team of the 6 nations and England know it. Therefore when a England flanker tackles a Wing in the Semi Final - he's played in enough Big Games to know not to spear tackle him (for example :evil:)

Will Carling tweeted asking which T-shirt would sell best if Wales win, Grand Slam 2013, or England Denied Grand Slam 2013 - the answers were all for the latter, as they would be in every other NH team (possibly Italy excepted). The best thing Warren Gatland has done for the Welsh Team has been to make them realise that there are other games in the year that are worth winning...

To be honest, it's an impossible question to answer but it's an interesting premise...

secretsqirrel

ddraver wrote:

Outside of genuine rugby fans, who really cares who wins France v Ireland or Wales v Scotland? No one!

Those 4 vs England is THE GAME for each team of the 6 nations and England know it....

At last the source of the 'English are arrogant' legend has been found. :roll:

You didn't even add a winky emoticon. :shock:

Embarrassed for you

Sewinman

Wowzers, that is some ace trolling I hope!

ddraver

Calling it English Arrogance is a feeble, albeit predictable attempt at an argument.

The group of French Rugby Fans I watch games with make it clear in no uncertain terms that the game they most want to win is against les anglais

You think if Scotland had to pick one game to win in the tournament it would nt be against the Aude Enemy?

2 years ago, after a diabolical campaign the Irish fans I watched Ireland deny England a Grandslam with could nt have enjoyed it more!

And finally, you think if it was France or Scotland coming to Cardiff on Saturday with an unbeaten record the game would have been anything like as hyped? Be honest with yourselves....6 years living in Wales leaves me in absolutely no doubt!



(Italy actually have limited history with any other country, but I'd hazard a very vague guess that they probably have the most rivalry with the French...?)

The whole world (for a very good reason it must be said) wants to beat the English at every sport. Trust me, when we combine into Great Britain, They want to beat you just as much too!

secretsqirrel

ddraver wrote:

Go down St Mary's street and ask a random person what the score was for any of Wales previous matches, i dare ya!

Calling it English Arrogance is a feeble attempt at an argument!

Wasn't arguing, just comment on a 'legend'.

Now, who was it called Welsh fans arrogant?

DD are you Cornish?

ddraver

Yeah, i rewrote that...curse your fast fingers! I don't think i ve called any fans arrogant, just pointed out who they'd most like to beat....

Yes I am...

daviesee

ddraver wrote:

...
1. You think if Scotland had to pick one game to win in the tournament it would nt be against the Aude Enemy?

2. And finally, you think if it was France or Scotland coming to Cardiff on Saturday with an unbeaten record the game would have been anything like as hyped? Be honest with yourselves....6 years living in Wales leaves me in absolutely no doubt!

3. The whole world (for a very good reason it must be said) wants to beat the English at every sport. Trust me, when we combine into Great Britain, They want to beat you just as much too!

1. I hate to disappoint you but that would depend on the results and how it affects the table. Recently it would be Italy. :oops: When we beat England (Not often I'll admit) the main pleasure is pegging back the arrogance and little to do with nationalism.
2. There-in lies the problem. No, it wouldn't.
3. I wonder why......... :roll:

Edit:- The arrogance label is targeted at the media and some fans.

ddraver

1 - Rewording again - If one asked a Scotsman if her could only win one game out of 5 - which one would it be, They'd choose Italy. Genuinely be interested to know why...

2 - well exactly

3 - Britain really didnt do itself many favours eh...? Rugby is worse still as the only countries that play it are ones that it was particularly nasty to...

daviesee

1. Usually a wooden spoon decider. :oops:

I am only speaking for myself but I would rather lose to England and avoid the wooden spoon than the other way round.

ddraver

One Mr North agrees with me...

"Wales is a massive rugby nation. Every time we play England with the long, long rivalry it seems everyone wants to see a bloodbath. In rugby terms everyone likes to hate the English. They are a great team with a winning past. That's not a bad thing to have. It's not like we hate them because they are nasty people, they are just a good scalp to have."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/six-nations-george-north--in-rugby-terms-everyone-hates-the-english-8535422.html

Have to agree with him about Ashton too, If I was the Welsh 10 I'd loft a few cheeky cross-kicks in that direction as you can bet he ll be out of position at some point or so :? ....

Sewinman

I certainly think in the past that England was the 'big one', but Wales have been beating England so often these days that a win is starting to become a bit meh...same with Grand Slams.

sketchley

Sewinman wrote:

I certainly think in the past that England was the 'big one', but Wales have been beating England so often these days that a win is starting to become a bit meh...same with Grand Slams.

Well you have one the last 2, but one of those was a World Cup warm up against the England second team...

Last 5 games it's 3-2 to England.......

5-5 in last 10

And 13-7 in the last 20....

Hardly beating us often these days

Sewinman

It is often and regular. I am comparing it to the 1990s when beating England was massive, now its more or less expected.

Sewinman

This sums it up well:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... iated.html

ddraver

I don't know who Mike Corrigan is, but I ve not sure I ve ready so much b*ll*cks in a newspaper since the last Jan Moir debacle...

It would be interesting to compare the amount of registered (and actually playing, not just drinking) club members between the 2 countries, anyone know where we could find that info..?

daviesee

Funny. I thought it summed things up fairly well.

Stag on

Hmmm...George North born in Kings Lynn, Jon Davies in Salford, Alex Cuthbert from Gloucestershire and only picked up by the Welsh system when he went to uni in Cardiff. Toby Faletau ex Filton College in Bristol. All could quite possibly be wearing the Red Rose in another dimension so not as clean cut "toffs vs valley boys" as you might think.

And before anyone mentions Manu T, Dylan Hartley and Bradley Barritt.....hmmmmm. fair one, at least Manu came through the English system and sports a Leicestershire twang.

Very much looking forward to tomorrow!

herb71

Stag on wrote:

Very much looking forward to tomorrow!

I am looking forward to, and dreading it in equal measure, it's going to be an edge of the seat game, that's for sure.