Puerto trial

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  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    victorponf wrote:
    Eufemiano a la jueza: "Si usted quiere que le revele el nombre de mis pacientes, lo hago". Silencio en la sala


    rough internet translation of that comes out as something like:
    Eufemiano to the judge: "If you want me to reveal the name of my patients, I will." Silence in the room

    Is that correct?

    Cheeky bastard.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,718
    Well played though, got to say.....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bigdawg
    bigdawg Posts: 672
    so what was the answer..?!?!

    Im assuming no, as we've not been inundated with the list of names, can't believe the spanish 'judicial' system blatently in full view of the world is looking so inept.
    dont knock on death\'s door.....

    Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....
  • TheStone
    TheStone Posts: 2,291
    What's his aim here? Just get himself off the charge?

    It looks like he wants to tell all, but the law doesn't want him to.
    exercise.png
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Eeek:

    'Fuentes says that Pipe Gomez (President of the ACP (Associacion de Ciclistas Profesionales)) was once one of his clients'
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,718
    Think it's safe to assume that anyone who's ever been to Spain was one of his clients....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Fuentes makes clear that him and Dr. Merino never added anything to the blood they took out from the athletes. Not EPO, nothing.

    Fuentes says that he only made the transfusions so the athletes could regain their normal hematocrit values. "Never higher than the normal"

    Just a reminder. Doping wasn't illegal in Spain until November 2006. Fuentes is "only" facing charges of an "offense against public health". Which is why Fuentes is more interested in explaning about the hotel's hygiene when making the transfusions instead of naming anybody.

    Fuentes just said he could indentify the code names of all the blood bags. Funny enough his lawyer didn't continue in that direction...
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,718
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes makes clear that him and Dr. Merino never added anything to the blood they took out from the athletes. Not EPO, nothing.

    Well, they don't need too do they
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes says that he only made the transfusions so the athletes could regain their normal hematocrit values. "Never higher than the normal"

    Which I assume was always 49.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes makes clear that him and Dr. Merino never added anything to the blood they took out from the athletes. Not EPO, nothing.

    Fuentes says that he only made the transfusions so the athletes could regain their normal hematocrit values. "Never higher than the normal"

    Just a reminder. Doping wasn't illegal in Spain until November 2006. Fuentes is "only" facing charges of an "offense against public health". Which is why Fuentes is more interested in explaning about the hotel's hygiene when making the transfusions instead of naming anybody.

    Fuentes just said he could indentify the code names of all the blood bags. Funny enough his lawyer didn't continue in that direction...


    SO higher than they would have been naturally then?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes makes clear that him and Dr. Merino never added anything to the blood they took out from the athletes. Not EPO, nothing.

    Fuentes says that he only made the transfusions so the athletes could regain their normal hematocrit values. "Never higher than the normal"

    Just a reminder. Doping wasn't illegal in Spain until November 2006. Fuentes is "only" facing charges of an "offense against public health". Which is why Fuentes is more interested in explaning about the hotel's hygiene when making the transfusions instead of naming anybody.

    Fuentes just said he could indentify the code names of all the blood bags. Funny enough his lawyer didn't continue in that direction...


    SO higher than they would have been naturally then?


    Oh yes
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    edited January 2013
    Best outcome of this trial?

    Fuentes standing up mid-snitch and walking out of the court doing the piece to camera from the end of Goodfellas.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    edited January 2013
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes makes clear that him and Dr. Merino never added anything to the blood they took out from the athletes. Not EPO, nothing.

    Doctors don't normally 'stir a bit of this or that in' when the blood's out! The point is to boost hematocrit by simply putting it back in. If you did 'add anything in' you'd be surefire caught if you were tested pretty quickly after that transfusion, its bad enough when there are traces of a drug you've taken 'before the blood was taken out', and that drug goes back in with the transfusion, I don't know, like, say, Clenbuterol.
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes says that he only made the transfusions so the athletes could regain their normal hematocrit values. "Never higher than the normal"

    Which is almost spun like there would be no point in doing it!
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    mfin wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes makes clear that him and Dr. Merino never added anything to the blood they took out from the athletes. Not EPO, nothing.

    Doctors don't normally stir a bit of this or that in when the blood's out! The point is to boost hematocrit by simply putting it back in. If you did put anything in you'd be surefire caught if you were tested pretty quickly after that transfusion, its bad enough when there are traces of a drug you've taken before the blood was taken out, and that goes back in with the transfusion, I don't know, like, say, Clenbuterol.
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Fuentes says that he only made the transfusions so the athletes could regain their normal hematocrit values. "Never higher than the normal"

    Which is almost spun like there would be no point in doing it!


    Exactly. He pointedly doesn't say "But I did tell them to self administer all that EPO between the occasions I took them out" because that wouldn't exactly help his defence that this was all hygenic and medically sound, would it?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Fuentes earlier: "Give me the list and I will tell you the corresponding names"

    Seems like Fuentes will only name more names if its relevant for the case (offense against public health).
    Contador is the Greatest
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Out of curiosity, how would a normal amateur cyclist go about having their own hematocrit value determined? Is it something you can go to the Doctors for?
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    In France they would give it to you at a 'GP'.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Out of curiosity, how would a normal amateur cyclist go about having their own hematocrit value determined? Is it something you can go to the Doctors for?

    Any blood test will inform you. You just need to convince them to share the detail with you! I kept badgering the doctors when I had loads of tests for beig knackered all the time. I also had some blood tested for various things in a sports science lab a few years previous to that.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • LeicesterLad
    LeicesterLad Posts: 3,908
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Out of curiosity, how would a normal amateur cyclist go about having their own hematocrit value determined? Is it something you can go to the Doctors for?

    Any blood test will inform you. You just need to convince them to share the detail with you! I kept badgering the doctors when I had loads of tests for beig knackered all the time. I also had some blood tested for various things in a sports science lab a few years previous to that.

    DOPER!!!!!











    :wink:
    http://www.twitter.com/InTheGC http://www.InTheGC.com http://www.facebook.com/intheGC
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Out of curiosity, how would a normal amateur cyclist go about having their own hematocrit value determined? Is it something you can go to the Doctors for?

    Any blood test will inform you. You just need to convince them to share the detail with you! I kept badgering the doctors when I had loads of tests for beig knackered all the time. I also had some blood tested for various things in a sports science lab a few years previous to that.

    Aah - cool. I'm just curious to learn how much of my poor performance on the bike is due to genetics etc and how much is due to me being a fat lazy cnut that eats too much cake! :shock:
  • rob churchill
    rob churchill Posts: 272
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Out of curiosity, how would a normal amateur cyclist go about having their own hematocrit value determined? Is it something you can go to the Doctors for?

    Your GP can do it no problem, but would probably charge you if there's no clinical reason to do the test. As a rough idea of the cost, I'd expect your own doctor to undercut this lot by about 50%.
    I have a policy of only posting comment on the internet under my real name. This is to moderate my natural instinct to flame your fatuous, ill-informed, irrational, credulous, bigoted, semi-literate opinions to carbon, you knuckle-dragging f***wits.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    I think you can get a home centrifuge that tells you as well as LA and Pantani had this and just a bit of blood from the finger would tell you the reading
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Out of curiosity, how would a normal amateur cyclist go about having their own hematocrit value determined? Is it something you can go to the Doctors for?

    Any blood test will inform you. You just need to convince them to share the detail with you! I kept badgering the doctors when I had loads of tests for beig knackered all the time. I also had some blood tested for various things in a sports science lab a few years previous to that.

    Aah - cool. I'm just curious to learn how much of my poor performance on the bike is due to genetics etc and how much is due to me being a fat lazy cnut that eats too much cake! :shock:

    The thing is, it does vary quite wildly. When I was tested medically it was in the high 30s, when I was tested in the lab at the height of my negligible impact on the world of cycle sport (by a doctor who worked for Rabobank, no less!) I was in the mid 40s.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Who needs T&R when we have the forum?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    sherer wrote:
    I think you can get a home centrifuge that tells you as well as LA and Pantani had this and just a bit of blood from the finger would tell you the reading

    NB unless you're planning some manipulation or have a medical condition, this is probably the least cost effective way of determining your HCT
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    CONI's lawyer is furious. "The judge didn't let us get the blood bags nor the computer and now he doesn't want to ask about the names even though Fuentes said he could tell him. It is incomprehensible!"

    Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
    It's now José Ignacio Labarta's turn to feel the spotlight. After him Vicente Belda and then Manolo Saiz.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    CONI's lawyer is furious. "The judge didn't let us get the blood bags nor the computer and now he doesn't want to ask about the names even though Fuentes said he could tell him. It is incomprehensible!"

    Mikkel Condé v2.0 ‏@mrconde
    It's now José Ignacio Labarta's turn to feel the spotlight. After him Vicente Belda and then Manolo Saiz.

    Wh don't CONI set up an investigation and call him as a witness?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Not sure how far CONI would get without the evidence of the blood bags, comp records etc.

    CONI were only able to nab Valverde cos they managed to wheedle the necessaries from the Spanish when a junior was covering holiday leave, right?
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Not sure how far CONI would get without the evidence of the blood bags, comp records etc.

    CONI were only able to nab Valverde cos they managed to wheedle the necessaries from the Spanish when a junior was covering holiday leave, right?

    But starting off with the good doctor naming a load of athletes, who have competed in Italy, as clients would be a good way of ramping up the pressure, no? They must have a fairly good idea, why not just work their way down the list of every cyclist, track and field athlete and Champions League footballer asking him to state yes or no?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    edited January 2013
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Best outcome of this trial?

    Fuentes standing up mid-snitch and walking out of the court doing the piece to camera from the end of Goodfellas.

    This man is just got the upper hand i this. Completely.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Andrew Hood's summary of the farce as of end of yesterday

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/01/ ... ial_273093

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