Contadors Can Of Worms
Comments
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I'm not Bertie's biggest fan, but can honestly say I wouldn't single him out from the likes of Valverde, Ricco, Rasmussen, Armstrong - to be honest, any convicted doper. That's not to say I have any great moral rage against any of them. The ones who have been caught are probably the unlucky / careless ones. It is inevitable though that the more success that you have whilst not sticking to the rules, the more you are going to invite criticism. See Armstrong as an example. Like it or not, in the eyes of many Contador is the new Armstrong - unless and until he does anything to suggest that he has changed his ways.0
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LeicesterLad wrote:
Of course it doesn't - but like you said, there is no proof, so its as circumstantial as Yates. Anyway this was never an argument about whether Bertie has always been clean, I don't think hes always been clean. The argument is why he's singled out from a long line of others who have done the same, even though punishment has been served. Whats wrong with moving on now that he's done his time, and discussing the subject rather than calling for his head.
Firstly, I don't think he's singled out. Plenty of other dopers also take flak: Vinokorov & Valverde to name but two.
Personally I think his punishment was too light and that the CAS tribunal bodged his case badly. The evidence was there that the clen got into his body by blood transfusion, but by refusing to allow Ashenden to correct false expert evidence they based their judgement on faulty science and ruled out the scenario.
By riding and winning the Giro while awaiting his case to be heard - a case based on one of the flimsiest excuses ever - he ruined a second GT. His insistence that he won 7 GTs is also grating.
His doping has done far more to damage the sport than Frank Schleck's has, just because of his profile and palmares.
I have zero respect for him whatsoever and hope he has to abandon every race he enters - hopefully due to a collision with the two others named above.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
On balance, IF Contador does get bought down in a doping scandal (again), and he has won a few more TdF (or any other GT), cycling is fucked from a sponsor perspective. I like his racing, but he is too fast as a climber! I do think though that the checks are good enough to catch him and anyone else these days, Im sure he will slow down now! I fear though we are going to be talking about doping for a good few more decades yet :-(
I do think it wrong to hammer AC continually, he was just playing the game, shitty but true, as was all the others. Why is Big Mig not vilified for supporting LA? Omerta?
I remember a story about a Cycling dinner (might have been to celebrate LAs 5th, I cant remember). All of the other 5 TdF winners were sat at a table and were reported to be laughing about their preparation. It goes with the game. Before you hammer this comment, its a fact, pro cyclists dope. I hope it stops and is stopped, lets see.0 -
exlaser wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:mike6 wrote:You cant blame people for constantly bringing up the "Steak" jokes.
I can and I will.
That genuinely has ruined the forum more than the tedious Contador chat.
sorry rick, but thats not a great atitude for a guy who is the site admin.
You obviously haven't seen enough naff steak jokes.
They're worse than the ridiculously chep and easy 'Bush is stupid" swipes that were scourge of all political jokes in the '00s.0 -
What was interesting was that, during the drinks a couple weeks ago, no-one seemd really fussed about the whole Contador thing.
From what I remember, and I did spend one point not listening since I was bust trying to get a steak and cheese pie, the most Contador was mentioned was when we were discussing the Vuelta and that stage.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:What was interesting was that, during the drinks a couple weeks ago, no-one seemd really fussed about the whole Contador thing.
I thought that no one turned up?0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:What was interesting was that, during the drinks a couple weeks ago, no-one seemd really fussed about the whole Contador thing.
I thought that no one turned up?
I didnt, forgot, too busy reading ACs blogs0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:What was interesting was that, during the drinks a couple weeks ago, no-one seemd really fussed about the whole Contador thing.
From what I remember, and I did spend one point not listening since I was bust trying to get a steak and cheese pie, the most Contador was mentioned was when we were discussing the Vuelta and that stage.
What was the conclusion of these discussions regarding 'that' stage Rick?0 -
How else can you keep on believing in a lie without putting your head deep into the sand.OCDuPalais wrote:frenchfighter wrote:
It isn't worth discussing with them (unless you have time and don't mind to), because to be honest, none of them are going to change their opinions. They will just repeat them. I only read/skim some of the posts as most are a waste of time and then those that are totally useless just dont even bother to read anything they say.
Behold! We have found the path to Enlightenment!
'Voice opinions then ignore the response'.
Fabulous.
Still like someone else said this is clearly just a piece of prepared PR, like his earlier 'pro' Lance statements which were provided to Saxo by the UCI.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:What was interesting was that, during the drinks a couple weeks ago, no-one seemd really fussed about the whole Contador thing.
From what I remember, and I did spend one point not listening since I was bust trying to get a steak and cheese pie, the most Contador was mentioned was when we were discussing the Vuelta and that stage.
Yes that's right, because normal people turned up.Contador is the Greatest0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:
Of course it doesn't - but like you said, there is no proof, so its as circumstantial as Yates. Anyway this was never an argument about whether Bertie has always been clean, I don't think hes always been clean. The argument is why he's singled out from a long line of others who have done the same, even though punishment has been served. Whats wrong with moving on now that he's done his time, and discussing the subject rather than calling for his head.
Firstly, I don't think he's singled out. Plenty of other dopers also take flak: Vinokorov & Valverde to name but two.
Personally I think his punishment was too light and that the CAS tribunal bodged his case badly. The evidence was there that the clen got into his body by blood transfusion, but by refusing to allow Ashenden to correct false expert evidence they based their judgement on faulty science and ruled out the scenario.
By riding and winning the Giro while awaiting his case to be heard - a case based on one of the flimsiest excuses ever - he ruined a second GT. His insistence that he won 7 GTs is also grating.
His doping has done far more to damage the sport than Frank Schleck's has, just because of his profile and palmares.
I have zero respect for him whatsoever and hope he has to abandon every race he enters - hopefully due to a collision with the two others named above.
I can hear your pain in this post.
Unfortunately for you he is a supreme bike handler:
And unfortunately too he also is loved by sponsors, team managers, team organisers and fellow riders.
He is a + to any race he enters and they know it.
Talk of him damaging the sport is nonsense. I havent seen any facts and very few opinions on that apart from on here. Net net, he has provided and boost to this sport rather than a step back. Don't forget that sport is about money - it is not run and supported by the goodness of people's hearts.
Also understand that emotions sell products. A rider soft tapping in a XTB jersey winning the Tour is going to generate a ton less sales then a rider with a XTB jersey racing and exciting fans. At the end of the day, that is what XTB cares about.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Unfortunately I suspect that here, at least, FF is right - there are more people out there, in the hard-core cycling fan world at least, who get excited by exciting drug-fuelled cheats winning than by the idea of a clean sport.frenchfighter wrote:Talk of him damaging the sport is nonsense. I havent seen any facts and very few opinions on that apart from on here. Net net, he has provided and boost to this sport rather than a step back. Don't forget that sport is about money - it is not run and supported by the goodness of people's hearts.
Also understand that emotions sell products. A rider soft tapping in a XTB jersey winning the Tour is going to generate a ton less sales then a rider with a XTB jersey racing and exciting fans. At the end of the day, that is what XTB cares about.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:He is a + to any race he enters and they know it.
Talk of him damaging the sport is nonsense. I havent seen any facts and very few opinions on that apart from on here. Net net, he has provided and boost to this sport rather than a step back. Don't forget that sport is about money - it is not run and supported by the goodness of people's hearts.
You could be talking about Armstrong circa 2003.Mañana0 -
FTFYpb21 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:He is a + to any race he enters and they know it.
Talk of him damaging the sport is nonsense. I havent seen any facts and very few opinions on that apart from on here. Net net, he has provided and boost to this sport rather than a step back. Don't forget that sport is about money - it is not run and supported by the goodness of people's hearts.
You could be talking about Armstrong circa 1999-2011½.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:
By riding and winning the Giro while awaiting his case to be heard - a case based on one of the flimsiest excuses ever - he ruined a second GT. His insistence that he won 7 GTs is also grating.
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And at the risk of being vilified, it wasn't a flimsy excuse, Clembuterol is used to beef cattle up in Spanish speaking countries. Honest, they (farmers/cows) are not meant to use it but they do, cows dope too, it builds them up so they get sold for more money. Everyone dopes except the readers of this forum. But its all stopped now, David Millar says so, and so we can look forward to years of clean racing from every rider including Contrador. The poor sod got briefed what to say prior to the final Pro Tour team selection press conference thingy and unbeknown to him, has royally pissed off the most of the users of this forum. Which is largely a good thing otherwise we would have nothing to rant about.0 -
Just out of interest does anyone know how many cyclists or athletes have failed a dope test due to Clenbuterol since Contador? Presumably a lot of athletes consume beef?Mañana0
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Nick Fitt wrote:frenchfighter wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:
By riding and winning the Giro while awaiting his case to be heard - a case based on one of the flimsiest excuses ever - he ruined a second GT. His insistence that he won 7 GTs is also grating.
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And at the risk of being vilified, it wasn't a flimsy excuse, Clembuterol is used to beef cattle up in Spanish speaking countries. Honest, they (farmers/cows) are not meant to use it but they do, cows dope too, it builds them up so they get sold for more money. Everyone dopes except the readers of this forum. But its all stopped now, David Millar says so, and so we can look forward to years of clean racing from every rider including Contrador. The poor sod got briefed what to say prior to the final Pro Tour team selection press conference thingy and unbeknown to him, has royally pissed off the most of the users of this forum. Which is largely a good thing otherwise we would have nothing to rant about.
Dont be silly Nick, there will always be the iniquities of Sky 'ruining cycling' for peeps to rant about0 -
pb21 wrote:Just out of interest does anyone know how many cyclists or athletes have failed a dope test due to Clenbuterol since Contador? Presumably a lot of athletes consume beef?
Well, there's this famous example
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ummer.html0 -
Or how many spanish cows have tested +ve for clenbuterol?pb21 wrote:Just out of interest does anyone know how many cyclists or athletes have failed a dope test due to Clenbuterol since Contador? Presumably a lot of athletes consume beef?
Doesn't make it certain that there aren't any, but makes it a bit statistically unlikely..."In 2010, the authorities carried out 14,179 controls, and there was not one positive case for Clenbuterol."0 -
OK, so you think Spanish Cows are clean eh! I bet you guys believed LA too. Heres the real dirt on Spanish cows, sorry to bring you back to reality with this revelation but in comparison, how many controls did LA pass?;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/1 ... 31195.html The Huffington Post is a genuine and honest sauce of meaty news
And Spanish ex Pat cows living in China
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/03/05/chi ... -substance
And this is how you spot it
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
And here are two, not one but two silver bullets (one from Caramel & Parsley and one the BBC, both shocking sauces of fact I know but hay, Ive no beef with either of them)
http://caramelandparsley.ca/2012/01/cle ... d-up-facts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14952870
The long term use can cause cancerous tumours, as can long term use of Cortisone too ring any bells?
Contador, like the Aussie Athlete, like the Chinese Athletes, like the 5 Mexican International Footballers, like over half of the U21 Youth World Cup players could actually be telling the truth. As a cycling fan, Id really like him racing next year. He will make Froomes ascent up the world order an awful lot harder.0 -
And exactly where in any of those links does it give any evidence that spanish beef is tainted with clen?
I do like the caramel and parsley one with its rather intriguing claim that "tainted meat has been served at wedding receptions where hundreds of people have ended up in hospital": I was unaware that clen in meat could do that, I would be really fascinated to see the news reports about that one...0 -
RichN95 wrote:^^ Caramel and Parsley sauce on beef? What's wrong with horseradish or peppercorn? Everyone's a Heston Blumenthal wannabe these days.
Horseradish or peppercorn? Oh la-de-da! I have this with my beef!
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I'm Sorry Frenchie, but you can say it in front of all of us...Not sure what you are trying to achieve but on here 24/7 banging the same drum day in day out isn't very clever. Very little useful contribution to this forum to promote debate or increase interest.
Maybe you are just getting what you can before you go to Siberia. If you genuinely like all this rubbish doping drum then I strongly suggest:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20
ps. am serious when I say that I don't read many people's posts. I see their avatar and pass straight over. Tbh, your posts are now only skim read. There are a lot of people who waste a lot of time replying to my posts and I dont read anything they say.
You may have skim read over it but I said to LL, to skip over Contador's doping ban is to skip over a very large part of his career. The picture I posted of him outside CAS is as relevant as the pictures you post of him in the Yellow/pink Jerseys
I don't like talking about doping, I wish we never did, but the facts are the facts and the fact is that much of Contadors talent is quite likely to have come out of a syringe. Now, people may or may not care about that but, personally I do care very much! Posting the reality about Contador, under your extremely one sided views does promote debate, that you don't like the debate or that you choose not to take part in the debate is entirely up to you.
I am very far from banging a doping drum, but that does nt mean I'm not going to criticise riders that dope.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Haha!Contador is the Greatest0
