Contadors Can Of Worms
Comments
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and there was me thinking that Bertie lacked a sense of humour...0
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Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:It was under his control to dope though...
...which is my main problem with him
So who are your hero's? Mine, Cipollini, Pantani, Millar (David), Ullrich, Zabel, Axel Merckx, Museeuw and Simoni, should I vilify one or all of them?
I'm scared to sound like dennis now, but who am I to tell you who your heros are?
I don't really have heroes, I like any rider with a personality (which is why I don't find Contador at all interesting). When I'm riding I am sometimes Boonen, Canc, Cav or Wiggo in my head depending on the terrain i'm riding over. I admire people that put a lot of work in, I ve always admired Jonny Wilkinson for that reason and people that actually say what they re thinking, which I kind of admire some controversial figures like Jose Mohrinio (sp?) and Brian Moore a lot too.
The difference between them and heroes is that if they are revealed to be less than what they appear I don't feel much loss...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Contador is clearly a huge doping cheat. Just go watch him against Rasmussen again and then say with a straight face that it was an honest performance on his part.
It is amusing how butt hurt some people are about some steak jokes. Just shows the power of humour to undercut the lies and get under the skin. It is also amusing how the Contador fanboys start lashing out at anyone who has a bad word to say about him.0 -
Well, its people having a problem with people having a problem with Contador.
Its easy for people to think dislike of Contador is irrational, but in a lot of cases its not that at all, the dislike, if that's the word, in many people's cases is formed from a lot of reading up on his history, Puerto, and his Clen case and the associated information.
I think people who read what he's said here and find it all a bit ridiculous and/or typical of him are just well read enough to see it as ridiculous and typical.
Its no big deal, its Contador being Contador yet again. He certainly isn't mensa material that's for sure.0 -
Thanks. Though I didn't realise that my trumpet playing was controversial.ddraver wrote:I kind of admire some controversial figures like [...] Brian Moore a lot too.0 -
I don't even care, I like the way he races. And bonus for not calling cycling fans c****.0
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Arkibal wrote:I don't even care, I like the way he races. And bonus for not calling cycling fans c****.
Its no skin off my nose whether people love Contador and hate Wiggins. But just to be factually correct, Wiggins called a bunch of pseudonym Twitter accounts aka the Twitter Taliban, c^nts, for accusing him of doping (and its arguable whether a number of THEM really are cycling fans or not).
You know, in the same way that those tweeters McAlpine's going after, accused him of child abuse.
I'm not saying the accusations are of the exactly the same severity but both are immensely hurtful and damaging to the targets - or rather the victims - and those around them including their families.
And actually I think Contador's been taking the p^ss out of cycling fans in a rather more cynical way over the years.
But hey, you like the way he races, so vamos Bertie...0 -
I don't think it's fair to blame various forumites for the rash of steak jokes here. After all, it was Contador that started it.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
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ddraver wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:It was under his control to dope though...
...which is my main problem with him
So who are your hero's? Mine, Cipollini, Pantani, Millar (David), Ullrich, Zabel, Axel Merckx, Museeuw and Simoni, should I vilify one or all of them?
I'm scared to sound like dennis now, but who am I to tell you who your heros are?
I don't really have heroes, I like any rider with a personality (which is why I don't find Contador at all interesting). When I'm riding I am sometimes Boonen, Canc, Cav or Wiggo in my head depending on the terrain i'm riding over. I admire people that put a lot of work in, I ve always admired Jonny Wilkinson for that reason and people that actually say what they re thinking, which I kind of admire some controversial figures like Jose Mohrinio (sp?) and Brian Moore a lot too.
The difference between them and heroes is that if they are revealed to be less than what they appear I don't feel much loss...
My point was that most if not all pro cyclists have in some way doped and either got caught or not. Nothing to do with Rugby players, not sure why you bought those up, its about the bike right? Irrespective, it seems that if you do get caught doping, then the excuse you give has a huge weighting on whether the fans forgive you (based upon comments here which is of course scientific). e.g. Millar sells it better than AC, so everyone forgives him.0 -
mfin wrote:Well, its people having a problem with people having a problem with Contador.
Its easy for people to think dislike of Contador is irrational, but in a lot of cases its not that at all, the dislike, if that's the word, in many people's cases is formed from a lot of reading up on his history, Puerto, and his Clen case and the associated information.
I think people who read what he's said here and find it all a bit ridiculous and/or typical of him are just well read enough to see it as ridiculous and typical.
Its no big deal, its Contador being Contador yet again. He certainly isn't mensa material that's for sure.
I havn't got an issue with people having a problem with Contador - not one bit.
My issue is with the people who have got a problem with Contador feeling the need to destroy every thread with immature remarks rather than have a normal discussion. It's like the people who dislike him can't bare to see a thread get away without spouting a lot of hatred or steak jokes. I can see why people have a problem with Contador, of course i'm not blind - but why persistantly just him when if anything he's served his time where others havn't.
Wasn't much vitriol directed to Scummy Sean Yates who continues to lie or deny he even knew doping was happening during the biggest doping years of the sport on one of the biggest doping teams in the sport and even managed to worm his way out of the Sky sign or die system with a pathetic 'need to spend time with family' line.
If Frank Schleck ever returns to racing, after his 'oh my god I must have been poisoned' routine, I want him to come under fire as much as Contador has. Even Piti gets less stick these days. If we want to start spouting disgust about every rider who doped and lied about it then there won't be many riders left NOT to talk about.
I don't mind people having an opinion as long as they are being honest with themselves, rather than saying 'Contador, disgusting' and then continueing to act like everybody you like is clean and moral, when if you are of a certain age, its imposible because they all doped and they all lied about it.
Contador by deffinition, by the whole situation is going to take some stick - obviously, but really do the same people need to ruin every thread consistantly for 2 years? Really, thats pretty obsessive, pretty petty and some people obviously have a lot of time on there hands. A poster above mentioned
Are some people really that blind? these threads are usually a result of somebody making an informed point about Contador, or about something he's done or doing hoping to get a little discussion and then they are hijacked by the Contador haters who just can't bare to let it go by without mentioning something he's rightly been punished for already - honestly what do people want from the man - a confession? Ask the rest of the bunch for theirs then...It is also amusing how the Contador fanboys start lashing out at anyone who has a bad word to say about him.0 -
I see that overnight the typical 'doping' posters have come out to play. Big lols to start my day.Contador is the Greatest0
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Well, what a surprise. You open a can of worms and complain that worms come out.0
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Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:It was under his control to dope though...
...which is my main problem with him
So who are your hero's? Mine, Cipollini, Pantani, Millar (David), Ullrich, Zabel, Axel Merckx, Museeuw and Simoni, should I vilify one or all of them?
I'm scared to sound like dennis now, but who am I to tell you who your heros are?
I don't really have heroes, I like any rider with a personality (which is why I don't find Contador at all interesting). When I'm riding I am sometimes Boonen, Canc, Cav or Wiggo in my head depending on the terrain i'm riding over. I admire people that put a lot of work in, I ve always admired Jonny Wilkinson for that reason and people that actually say what they re thinking, which I kind of admire some controversial figures like Jose Mohrinio (sp?) and Brian Moore a lot too.
The difference between them and heroes is that if they are revealed to be less than what they appear I don't feel much loss...
My point was that most if not all pro cyclists have in some way doped and either got caught or not. Nothing to do with Rugby players, not sure why you bought those up, its about the bike right? Irrespective, it seems that if you do get caught doping, then the excuse you give has a huge weighting on whether the fans forgive you (based upon comments here which is of course scientific). e.g. Millar sells it better than AC, so everyone forgives him.
Well who cares if they re rugby players or football managers or cyclists? You don't have other interests outside cycling?
For the second part, yes, of course it does!
Millar - It was a terrible mistake, I should never have done it and I ll never do it again.
Contador - Who me sir? Do I get off if I say I did nt do it? Maybe? well that's a shot worth taking I ll pretend I did nt do it then. Manuel! Be a sweet and pass me that vial of EPO will you I have a Giro to prepare for...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Back to the topic (I think) of the thread, I dont think the press release was anything other than to get the Tinkoff/Saxo team in front of the UCI/ASO to help selecting them over Argos Shimano. Anti doping supporting comments prior to stating how much he would love to do the Tour would be about the most they could do Id say. If the decision to award his team a license or Argos is what gets him into the Tour, this is a fairly well timed piece of PR imho. Might not be that great from a content perspective but what else can he say?
"The prospect of Contador being on the start line in Corsica for the 2013 Tour de France is heavily reliant on Saxo-Tinkoff gaining a ProTeam licence.
"I would love to do the Tour obviously," he explained. "I missed it this year. But if I only find out two months before, then I won't [be there]. I need enough time to prepare. Otherwise I won't be a part of it."
Froome on form has to be the favourite, who will challenge him in the Mountains without Contador being there? Evans? Schleck? Nibali?0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:these threads are usually a result of somebody making an informed point about Contador,
No, they arent.
They re usually a response to Frenchie posing a bunch of pictures of him in yellow or pink jerseys and then a load of rubbish about True Champions, Heavyweight, best rider ever statements
Like it or not, the picture of him in a suit outside CAS is as much a part of Contadors career as the picture in the yellow jersey, which is why I posted it in Frenchie's latest smoochfest. Most of us also disagree that True Champions, Heavyweights and Best riders ever require dope to be so
When it happens in a race thread, then it's a bit more irksomeWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
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Are you thinking of taking up poetry ff? Making rhymes all the timefrenchfighter wrote:I see that overnight the typical 'doping' posters have come out to play. Big lols to start my day.
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ddraver wrote:I don't slate him for the hell of it, I slate him because of his past and his actions. I don't hate him either but I do think he is part of an era/culture of cycling that we should be forgetting. To put it bluntly, like Vinokourov, I genuinely don't think he views doping as cheating.
There are plenty of teams that I think should nt be in the Pro Tour, but as I said (quite clearly) in the other thread, the choice has come down to those 2, and the 2 are chalk and cheese.
spot on0 -
Nick Fitt wrote:Back to the topic (I think) of the thread, I dont think the press release was anything other than to get the Tinkoff/Saxo team in front of the UCI/ASO to help selecting them over Argos Shimano. Anti doping supporting comments prior to stating how much he would love to do the Tour would be about the most they could do Id say. If the decision to award his team a license or Argos is what gets him into the Tour, this is a fairly well timed piece of PR imho. Might not be that great from a content perspective but what else can he say?
"The prospect of Contador being on the start line in Corsica for the 2013 Tour de France is heavily reliant on Saxo-Tinkoff gaining a ProTeam licence.
"I would love to do the Tour obviously," he explained. "I missed it this year. But if I only find out two months before, then I won't [be there]. I need enough time to prepare. Otherwise I won't be a part of it."
Froome on form has to be the favourite, who will challenge him in the Mountains without Contador being there? Evans? Schleck? Nibali?
Nibbles is targetting the Giro instead of the Tour, I think, and Birdsong's leading Astana at le Tour. My thinking is that Cuddles has had his last shot at the maillot jaune - think that will become evident next Jul when young TJ is clearly stronger in absence of any Cuddles-is-under-the-weather excuse. But prepared to be surprised!0 -
ddraver wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:Froome on form has to be the favourite, who will challenge him in the Mountains without Contador being there? Evans? Schleck? Nibali?
Are you suggesting we overlook doping as long as the racing is exciting?
So far as I know, none of the riders listed are banned. Therefore they can race if selected, the TdF will be better with AC there. You need to move on mate.0 -
My problem with Bertie is his refusal to acknowledge fault, blaming others and saying it's not fair. Plenty of other athletes have been sanctioned through no fault of their own, they grumbled a bit, but mostly just accepted their fault and got on with it.
He won't give a DNA sample to clear the Puerto issue.
He is guilty by association.... many many times. He is either very unlucky, or very dirty.
His performances on some races were unbelievable.
Given all the above, I think he's an unrepentant cheat. To call for bans in this manner is just pr following his support of other dopers .--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Those who already hate him should probably steer clear of this thread...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-cycling-needs-to-introduce-zero-tolerance-for-dope-cheats
Aslo, it's not been mentioned but December edition of ProCycling with Contador on the cover - the inside article is a good read whether a fan or not, insight into the mind of somebody who races to win rather than to get paid, and I must say very pro-Contador concerning Clengate.
You'be baited the thread and now you're whining. Strange. Also you don't have to hate someone for them to be the butt of jokes.0 -
Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:Froome on form has to be the favourite, who will challenge him in the Mountains without Contador being there? Evans? Schleck? Nibali?
Are you suggesting we overlook doping as long as the racing is exciting?
So far as I know, none of the riders listed are banned. Therefore they can race if selected, the TdF will be better with AC there. You need to move on mate.
So yes then...
Fine, its as much your sport as it is mineWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
And didn't Bertie win a tour with no preparation apart from lying on a beach until 10 minutes before the start?--
Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails0 -
ddraver wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:ddraver wrote:It was under his control to dope though...
...which is my main problem with him
So who are your hero's? Mine, Cipollini, Pantani, Millar (David), Ullrich, Zabel, Axel Merckx, Museeuw and Simoni, should I vilify one or all of them?
I'm scared to sound like dennis now, but who am I to tell you who your heros are?
I don't really have heroes, I like any rider with a personality (which is why I don't find Contador at all interesting). When I'm riding I am sometimes Boonen, Canc, Cav or Wiggo in my head depending on the terrain i'm riding over. I admire people that put a lot of work in, I ve always admired Jonny Wilkinson for that reason and people that actually say what they re thinking, which I kind of admire some controversial figures like Jose Mohrinio (sp?) and Brian Moore a lot too.
The difference between them and heroes is that if they are revealed to be less than what they appear I don't feel much loss...
My point was that most if not all pro cyclists have in some way doped and either got caught or not. Nothing to do with Rugby players, not sure why you bought those up, its about the bike right? Irrespective, it seems that if you do get caught doping, then the excuse you give has a huge weighting on whether the fans forgive you (based upon comments here which is of course scientific). e.g. Millar sells it better than AC, so everyone forgives him.
Well who cares if they re rugby players or football managers or cyclists? You don't have other interests outside cycling?
For the second part, yes, of course it does!
Millar - It was a terrible mistake, I should never have done it and I ll never do it again.
Contador - Who me sir? Do I get off if I say I did nt do it? Maybe? well that's a shot worth taking I ll pretend I did nt do it then. Manuel! Be a sweet and pass me that vial of EPO will you I have a Giro to prepare for...
If you believe thats the correct version of events then you are very naive. Millar was bang to rights, he had no choice - he's managed to fiddle it in a way where he got to play the victim and suddenly become stringent anti-doping. If he hadn't been banged up in a cell and caught red handed, I think the David Millar we know now wouldn't exist.0 -
That is quite likely true. But does it mean he doesn't actually exist now? You seem to think that he is playing the part of the repentant sinner as a PR exercise?LeicesterLad wrote:If he hadn't been banged up in a cell and caught red handed, I think the David Millar we know now wouldn't exist.0 -
bompington wrote:
That is quite likely true. But does it mean he doesn't actually exist now? You seem to think that he is playing the part of the repentant sinner as a PR exercise?LeicesterLad wrote:If he hadn't been banged up in a cell and caught red handed, I think the David Millar we know now wouldn't exist.
Pretty sure it started as a PR exercise, he's probably grown into the role and believes it more now that the tide has turned in his favour.0 -
I like this thread: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12887023&hilit=sean+yates&start=60
There is no hypocrisy to be seen here. :roll:L.E.G.E.N.D. Nothing less.
Ex-team mates tell stories of him having to cut his kit to stop it cutting into him cos he worked out so much
Frenchie, can you find any pics of him descending - or even better, vids?
Lets not foget, Sean Yates refused to even acknowledge doping as an problem, refused to say he saw it or even heard it was happening, he also refused a chance to admit his guilt instead taking the 'oh no, im choosing to leave, nothing to do with doping' line and making out like we are all idiots. He has left cycling with no admission, no apology or acknowledgment, let alone remorse. He also did test positive even if people like to pass it off as 'a few pills' all of a sudden.
but 'he's a legend' he's a 'gentle giant'.
Actually, he's as bad as Contador.0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:I like this thread: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12887023&hilit=sean+yates&start=60
There is no hypocrisy to be seen here. :roll:L.E.G.E.N.D. Nothing less.
Ex-team mates tell stories of him having to cut his kit to stop it cutting into him cos he worked out so much
Frenchie, can you find any pics of him descending - or even better, vids?
Lets not foget, Sean Yates refused to even acknowledge doping as an problem, refused to say he saw it or even heard it was happening, he also refused a chance to admit his guilt instead taking the 'oh no, im choosing to leave, nothing to do with doping' line and making out like we are all idiots. He has left cycling with no admission, no apology or acknowledgment, let alone remorse. He also did test positive even if people like to pass it off as 'a few pills' all of a sudden.
but 'he's a legend' he's a 'gentle giant'.
Actually, he's as bad as Contador.
LL, as someone else said, you chose to start this thread. Why do it when you react as you do to the community of forumites who respond as you know very well they're going to do?
I can only assume its because you like a good old argy bargy. :?0
