Contadors Can Of Worms
Comments
-
LeicesterLad wrote:They did mention how the Clen was 400 times smaller than the ammount needed for WADA anti-doping regs to raise the issue, and i found the tone of that whole paragraph very sympathetic towards Contador.
Isn't that "400 times smaller" line factually incorrect anyway?0 -
You can agree or disagree with as much you want but he is handling the media much better than his spanish colleagues on the doping questions.0
-
ThomThom wrote:You can agree or disagree with as much you want but he is handling the media much better than his spanish colleagues on the doping questions.
Not quite true. J-Rod spoke out a while ago, and the retiring (*weeps about this*) Freire has also had very sensible things to say. Bertie actually came out with nonsense first time around, and this is clearly an effort to backtrack, albeit a very clumsy one given his own attituded to his sanction.0 -
ThomThom wrote:You can agree or disagree with as much you want but he is handling the media much better than his spanish colleagues on the doping questions.
Again, I think you need to compare him to someone that's handling it WELL...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:ThomThom wrote:You can agree or disagree with as much you want but he is handling the media much better than his spanish colleagues on the doping questions.
Again, I think you need to compare him to someone that's handling it WELL...
I just don't get the issue dd - Contador has been convicted, he's served the punishment that was handed to him, he's back and riding again, the world goes on. Why the insistant and constant hatred whenever somebody mentions his name? Ok so you and others may think he's lieing - but still, he's served his time he has the right to compete most dopers don't admit to anything unless they are forced into a corner anyway, he's no different from most. Millar admitted guilty because his hand was forced, as did all the people who gave evidence against Armstrong, as did Bobby Julich and had Sean Yates had any dignity he would have done the same. Why is Contador different from anybody else, including all of those probable boyhood heroes who were smashed off their t*ts?0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:They did mention how the Clen was 400 times smaller than the ammount needed for WADA anti-doping regs to raise the issue, and i found the tone of that whole paragraph very sympathetic towards Contador.
Actually, the article said it was 40 times below the minimum required to produce a positive... but essentially, the point is still the same.
Talking of the Schlecks, that Bertie article in Procycling and pro-cycling involved brothers... I wonder how on the "inside track" William Fotheringham is now with Team Sky (following his Wiggo book) and if he and his brother Alasdair (who wrote the Conti article) cross-reference their info?
There's going to be heaps of mileage in setting up the whole Contador Vs Sky thing between now and next July...
I can feel a bit of empathy for cycling writers and the double-binds I imagine they can find themselves in: as has been amplified by the whole Armstrong saga - the only writers who are really in a position to freely (ish) and thoroughly question current champions are now more likely to be whistle-blowers, lone wolves or unattached and (often) anonymous bloggers... and for anyone to take notice of them, they must have succeeded in convincing the more discerning reader that they have bona fide sources and references... but who will give them access to such if they reveal themselves to be overtly suspicious?0 -
I don't deny he has the right to compete - what I find strange is that he adovcates zero-tolerance. He has also done nothing to re-earn any trust (if he had any before the ban anyway). Absurdly, if true Zero-tolerance was in place, as he desires, he would nt have been allowed to ride the tour that he got popped on in the first place!
Does not compute
To add insult to injury, the stuff about not riding the tour is so clearly rubbish that it just makes him look stupid...again...
To call it a can of worms suggests there is some debate, but the reality is that he's just made an idiot of himself.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Any cyclist speaking in the press at this time is on thin ice. AC is damned whichever way he speaks out, especially if the meaning is lost in translation as implied. The ASO would like AC at the TDF I think. He will make a better race of it by being there. The meat story is plausible but unlikely given the entire pro tour was off its bonce since its inception and before. Not much point in being so holy about it.0
-
It is nt about what I want him to say, I don't respecthim when he says he thinks that drug cheats deserve "respect" and I don't respect him when he spouts such obvious bullsh1t as he does in this article - not do I anyone who does likewise.
Sorry, nick but I don't think Zero-tolerance can be lost in translation, and a drugs cheat is a drugs cheat, I don't care if everyone else was doing it.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:I don't deny he has the right to compete - what I find strange is that he adovcates zero-tolerance. He has also done nothing to re-earn any trust (if he had any before the ban anyway). Absurdly, if true Zero-tolerance was in place, as he desires, he would nt have been allowed to ride the tour that he got popped on in the first place!
Does not compute
To add insult to injury, the stuff about not riding the tour is so clearly rubbish that it just makes him look stupid...again...
To call it a can of worms suggests there is some debate, but the reality is that he's just made an idiot of himself.
thats fair enough - but I was refering to all of the other occasions where you have slated Contador just for the hell of it since his ban? Ok so he hasn't earnt your trust but he has served his time, that shouldn't really constitute hatred. Or calling for an additional punishment of shipping Saxobank out of the WorldTour to teach 'dopers' a lesson like you suggested in another thread. Why punish the same man twice? or indeed a team of innocents for one mans already paid for crimes? You don't ask the same of anyone else.0 -
It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.0
-
I don't slate him for the hell of it, I slate him because of his past and his actions. I don't hate him either but I do think he is part of an era/culture of cycling that we should be forgetting. To put it bluntly, like Vinokourov, I genuinely don't think he views doping as cheating.
There are plenty of teams that I think should nt be in the Pro Tour, but as I said (quite clearly) in the other thread, the choice has come down to those 2, and the 2 are chalk and cheese.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:It is nt about what I want him to say, I don't respecthim when he says he thinks that drug cheats deserve "respect" and I don't respect him when he spouts such obvious bullsh1t as he does in this article - not do I anyone who does likewise.
Sorry, nick but I don't think Zero-tolerance can be lost in translation, and a drugs cheat is a drugs cheat, I don't care if everyone else was doing it.
No mate, I was on about the use of the term 'preparation'. I think it refers to doping basically. It was used by the French when they spoke about Jason Kenny too. It seems to be hurled around quite recklessly at anyone who wins a race these days.
I dont think zero tolerance can be made to work on ex dopers, only from now. But when is 'from now on?' The UCI isnt really managing things to well. This situation is ridiculous. A big problem in all of this is no-one in the sport, or fans of the sport (clearly) trusts anyone.0 -
ddraver wrote:I don't slate him for the hell of it, I slate him because of his past and his actions. I don't hate him either but I do think he is part of an era/culture of cycling that we should be forgetting. To put it bluntly, like Vinokourov, I genuinely don't think he views doping as cheating.
There are plenty of teams that I think should nt be in the Pro Tour, but as I said (quite clearly) in the other thread, the choice has come down to those 2, and the 2 are chalk and cheese.
Yeah, yeah but Nico says he's a really nice man so he must be. http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13363/Nicolas-Roche-Interview-One-step-back-to-take-two-steps-forward.aspx0 -
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I might have known you'd show up, your prime candidate number 1. Still, Hockey has a massive dope problem (probably) and most of your cycling idols were smacked up, so I don't really pay that much attention.
0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:RichN95 wrote:
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I might have known you'd show up, your prime candidate number 1. Still, Hockey has a massive dope problem (probably) and most of your cycling idols were smacked up, so I don't really pay that much attention.
Lol. Rich loves to sound sage-like however I think he needs to get over his 'equal and opposite' tosh and also realise that 1 vs 20 is not equal. If he likes cow-jokes, I suggest the place to read them is here: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjo ... jokes.html and not on a cycling forum.Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:RichN95 wrote:
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I might have known you'd show up, your prime candidate number 1. Still, Hockey has a massive dope problem (probably) and most of your cycling idols were smacked up, so I don't really pay that much attention.
Lol. Rich loves to sound sage-like however I think he needs to get over your 'equal and opposite' tosh and also realise that 1 vs 20 is not equal. If he likes cow-jokes, I suggest the place to read them is here: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjo ... jokes.html and not on a cycling forum.
Rich was involved in Hockey match-fixing - so has absolutely no right to talk about fairness in sport or indeed cheating.
0 -
RichN95 wrote:
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I just love a good pun...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:RichN95 wrote:
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I might have known you'd show up, your prime candidate number 1. Still, Hockey has a massive dope problem (probably) and most of your cycling idols were smacked up, so I don't really pay that much attention.
Sod it, when I played fullback at school there was no dope going around. Where did I go wrong?0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I dont hate anyone.
I pointed out that he got caught and came up with a pitiful excuse, rather than admit his guilt and take the punishment.
I continue to dislike him for a number of reasons.
He was given time to come up with an excuse for his positive, for some unknown reason.
He refuses to admit his past.
He was given a slap on the wrist by his federation rather than a two year ban, and that is what gets up most peoples noses.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
The steak jokes are rare and sometimes well done. We try to strike a happy medium. At least they're not blue.LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
Nice one Rich. A sense of humor is often lacking on this site. Keep it up my man.0 -
mike6 wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:It makes me laugh on here, people love to have a pop at Frenchie for being a fanboy or obsessed...but theres a whole group of people here who become crazed whenever Contador is mentioned and have to fill every thread with steak jokes and hatred to satisfy themselves - that is obsession.
I dont hate anyone.
I pointed out that he got caught and came up with a pitiful excuse, rather than admit his guilt and take the punishment.
I continue to dislike him for a number of reasons.
He was given time to come up with an excuse for his positive, for some unknown reason.
He refuses to admit his past.
He was given a slap on the wrist by his federation rather than a two year ban, and that is what gets up most peoples noses.
So something completely out of Contadors control is everybodies main reason for disliking him. That makes sense.0 -
Just to remove myself from any association with steak, I would like to state that my name has nothing at all to do with beef or Contador and was a simple reference to the usual view I have when out for a ride.
As for Contador's latest nugget. He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool and he's made himself look a bit of a wally (again). But that is the problem he has, he started digging a hole for himself a long time ago and now he can't really stop even if he keeps schtum.
Anyway I don't like Contador, never have (irrational, I can't explain why), but his actions over the previous few years have made me loose any respect I may have been able to muster for him.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:Just to remove myself from any association with steak, I would like to state that my name has nothing at all to do with beef or Contador and was a simple reference to the usual view I have when out for a ride.
As for Contador's latest nugget. He doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool and he's made himself look a bit of a wally (again). But that is the problem he has, he started digging a hole for himself a long time ago and now he can't really stop even if he keeps schtum.
Anyway I don't like Contador, never have (irrational, I can't explain why), but his actions over the previous few years have made me loose any respect I may have been able to muster for him.
In the barrage of claims and counter-claims/fact and fiction/information and bullsh!t... I keep coming back to the only criteria that I've got ownership of: gut instinct. And my gut instinct tells me that if you get busted and your reaction is of the wounded-fawn-in-the-headlights version of Hamilton, Ullrich, Landis, Basso, Valverde, Contador, (I can't tell you how challenging I found this, as Jan and Bertie are two of my all-time fav riders) etc, rather than a raging monster of indignation who has to be strapped down at the press conference... then I'll find it difficult not to put you down as a lying cheat and chances are your successes will always be diminished and marked with an asterisk in my mind.
I'm happy to rescind that view if I sense that you are
a) genuinely sorry and will seek to actively push for cleaner cycling i.e. Millar - despite his occasional piousness, or
b) feeling fukcing p!ssed off that you're still implicated/tarnished and you'll fight anyone outside now who says otherwise i.e. Voigt.
Unfortunately, talking of Voigt - this is where I'm conflicted: by him (I figured him for a doper, so does Hamilton - yet Jens is defiant as a honey-badger about it!?! Like an ardent non-doper should be!)) and my whole gut instinct thing: it's as though I need some sort of apparatus that can process the situation in a way that is more rational and devoid of emotion - some sort of centralised organ of soft nervous tissue… where can I get me one of them?
But then I'll be back at the beginning again, because, as we know, bullish!t baffles brains...0
