Seemingly trivial things that annoy you

kingstongraham

pangolin said:

TheBigBean said:

I once got a question wrong on my PADI exam, because they thought that floating meant "floating on the surface".

Look at that boat floating just under the water.

Hmm

If it was floating under the surface but above the sea bed, fair enough.

Jellyfish float surely.

briantrumpet

The dictionary is full of words that have specific scientific/mathematical and parallel metaphorical definitions... inertia, weight, vector, reflection, circuit breaker, etc. (the list is almost endless)

The same is true (to a much lesser extent) in music, and you just have to learn to let go of these words in the wider world, but make sure that they are used correctly in your own sphere.

pblakeney

briantrumpet said:

The dictionary is full of words that have specific scientific/mathematical and parallel metaphorical definitions... inertia, weight, vector, reflection, circuit breaker, etc. (the list is almost endless)

The same is true (to a much lesser extent) in music, and you just have to learn to let go of these words in the wider world, but make sure that they are used correctly in your own sphere.

I see what you did there.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

pangolin said:

TheBigBean said:

I once got a question wrong on my PADI exam, because they thought that floating meant "floating on the surface".

Look at that boat floating just under the water.

Hmm

If it was floating under the surface but above the sea bed, fair enough.

Jellyfish float surely.

The salient example in my case was that scuba divers float under the water. It accounts for about 90% of the skill of scuba diving and what PADI teach.

briantrumpet

pblakeney said:

briantrumpet said:

The dictionary is full of words that have specific scientific/mathematical and parallel metaphorical definitions... inertia, weight, vector, reflection, circuit breaker, etc. (the list is almost endless)

The same is true (to a much lesser extent) in music, and you just have to learn to let go of these words in the wider world, but make sure that they are used correctly in your own sphere.

I see what you did there.

That's more than I did when I wrote it.

It's actually quite a fun game to analyse your own writings afterwards to see how much is analogy or metaphor. We can't escape them... indeed, many argue that they are precisely who we learn to conceptualise the world which we each inhabit.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200710-the-words-that-stretch-how-we-think

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

Tashman

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

TheBigBean

Tashman said:

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

Something that is buoyant floats on the surface. A scuba diver floats underwater in an equilibrium.

rjsterry

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

briantrumpet said:

First.Aspect said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66974738

Use of the term "floating" by a BBC science correspondent in this context.

Science communication is about making things both understandable and correct. Understandable and wrong is easy, but wrong.

I know it's not supported by one of the OED's definitions, but it's not a massive metaphorical shift, is it? Metaphorical shift is how a very large proportion of meaning evolves.

To move freely and gently in or through the air, as if buoyed up or carried along by it.

Though I'm not going to get too exercised by it... what would your simplistic analogy be, if you were trying to describer it to a bear of very little brain?

Drifting?

I'm afraid that also began life as something more precise:

To move as driven or borne along by a current; to float or move along with the stream or wind

Pretty much every utterance we make is based on metaphor (and analogy), whether we're aware of it or not.

That seems pretty accurate. if they have been flung out of orbit by gravitational forces.

TheBigBean

In any case, my point is that if floating means "floating on the surface" then the words "on the surface" are completely superfluous.

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

In any case, my point is that if floating means "floating on the surface" then the words "on the surface" are completely superfluous.

From Latin, the literal meaning is 'overflow'.

masjer

TheBigBean said:

Tashman said:

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

Something that is buoyant floats on the surface. A scuba diver floats underwater in an equilibrium.

Neutral buoyancy is when a diver (or jellyfish) neither rises nor sinks.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

Tashman said:

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

Something that is buoyant floats on the surface. A scuba diver floats underwater in an equilibrium.

It's neutral buoyancy in PADI speak.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

The dictionary is full of words that have specific scientific/mathematical and parallel metaphorical definitions... inertia, weight, vector, reflection, circuit breaker, etc. (the list is almost endless)

The same is true (to a much lesser extent) in music, and you just have to learn to let go of these words in the wider world, but make sure that they are used correctly in your own sphere.

It's a science article. At least try to be precise.

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

briantrumpet said:

The dictionary is full of words that have specific scientific/mathematical and parallel metaphorical definitions... inertia, weight, vector, reflection, circuit breaker, etc. (the list is almost endless)

The same is true (to a much lesser extent) in music, and you just have to learn to let go of these words in the wider world, but make sure that they are used correctly in your own sphere.

It's a science article. At least try to be precise.

It's an article about science for non-scientists (as per the NASA and Science Museum references). I'll tend to use less technical language when writing about music for those without a theoretical background: I'd rather it was broadly understood, even if in a non theoretical way, and maybe with slightly less precision, by as many people as possible, if I want a wide range of people to grasp my message. Equally, I can write for academic musicians, if that's my task.

As I asked, what easily understood word would you have used in its place?

First.Aspect

I'd have used sexy terms such as binary rouge planets in a stellar nursery.

Moving or drifting through the nebula, rather than floating in space. Which is noddy.

pangolin

You ever get that sinking feeling when the topic turns to etymology?

pblakeney

pangolin said:

You ever get that sinking feeling when the topic turns to etymology?

Certainly doesn't float my boat.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Tashman said:

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

Something that is buoyant floats on the surface. A scuba diver floats underwater in an equilibrium.

It's neutral buoyancy in PADI speak.

Yes, it annoys me, trivially.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Tashman said:

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

Something that is buoyant floats on the surface. A scuba diver floats underwater in an equilibrium.

It's neutral buoyancy in PADI speak.

Yes, it annoys me, trivially.

Well it's unambiguous isn't it. As opposed to floating.

briantrumpet

First.Aspect said:

I'd have used sexy terms such as binary rouge planets in a stellar nursery.

Moving or drifting through the nebula, rather than floating in space. Which is noddy.

'Moving' fails the headline test: it's neither sexy nor descriptive of the actual motion. It's like saying that my head 'moved towards the tarmac' when I fell of my bike five years ago. 'Smashed into the tarmac' would be the right sort of image, even if my skull wasn't actually smashed, in the technical sense of the word.

'Floating' comes in as a synonym for 'drifting' in various sources.

I know you might not like it, but words change meaning through analogy (and sometimes mistake), and people use technical words in a non-technical way, especially if the imagery is vivid.

TheBigBean

pangolin said:

You ever get that sinking feeling when the topic turns to etymology?

Have I sinned?

kingstongraham

Do you realise we're floating in space?

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

pangolin said:

You ever get that sinking feeling when the topic turns to etymology?

Have I sinned?

He who is without sin, etc...

pangolin

TheBigBean said:

pangolin said:

You ever get that sinking feeling when the topic turns to etymology?

Have I sinned?

We're all in the same boat

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Tashman said:

buoyant perhaps? or in equilibrium?

Something that is buoyant floats on the surface. A scuba diver floats underwater in an equilibrium.

It's neutral buoyancy in PADI speak.

Yes, it annoys me, trivially.

Well it's unambiguous isn't it. As opposed to floating.

Puts me in a neutrally buoyant mood.

briantrumpet

So here's a little language quiz for non jazz musicians... what would you understand if someone said they were 'riffing on an idea'? No cheating... and I definitely won't laugh at you.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

First.Aspect said:

I'd have used sexy terms such as binary rouge planets in a stellar nursery.

Moving or drifting through the nebula, rather than floating in space. Which is noddy.

'Moving' fails the headline test: it's neither sexy nor descriptive of the actual motion. It's like saying that my head 'moved towards the tarmac' when I fell of my bike five years ago. 'Smashed into the tarmac' would be the right sort of image, even if my skull wasn't actually smashed, in the technical sense of the word.

'Floating' comes in as a synonym for 'drifting' in various sources.

I know you might not like it, but words change meaning through analogy (and sometimes mistake), and people use technical words in a non-technical way, especially if the imagery is vivid.

So if you don't change the words, you avoid changing the meaning. It's more difficult than getting it wrong, but eminently achievable.

The BBC dumb things down habitually and unnecessarily. NASA have already dumbed it down for them, but the BBC author felt compelled to dumb it down even further.

I mean hell, the beeb should just say the clever people at NASA have taken a photo with a big space camera that shows some cool new stuff. All the words are fairly short.

Annoyed.

First.Aspect

briantrumpet said:

So here's a little language quiz for non jazz musicians... what would you understand if someone said they were 'riffing on an idea'? No cheating... and I definitely won't laugh at you.

Don't know. If I read an article using the term, I might try looking it up though.

focuszing723

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8063h3KT6bYWell, Jazz is all over the shop messin about on instruments, so trying lots of different ideas.

secretsqirrel

variations on a theme?

improvising on a motif?

this fun…but doesn’t annoy me