Seemingly trivial things that annoy you

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

But Mathieu Valet, from senior police officers' union the SICP, told the BBC's Newshour the main issue was not ticketless fans or fake tickets, but "three or four hundred French and undocumented delinquents who were there on the concourse of the Stade de France".

"It's clear that we needed more police - we didn't have enough on the ground," Mr Valet said.
Police officer using CS spray on a Liverpool fanImage source, Getty Images
Image caption,
A police officer is photographed spraying a cannister towards a Liverpool fan outside the gates

He confirmed the use of tear gas, saying it "unfortunately does not discriminate".

"It's clear that families, children, mainly English supporters, were inconvenienced by tear gas, I know it's not part of your culture but it allows us to repel attackers," he said.

Like I said, police in rest of world are not the soft touch the UK rozzers are.

This isn’t news! Fans love being victims - but they won’t sort out their own house. Always whining.

Police outside of the UK normally are much less approachable and don’t take sh!t.

How were the victims supposed to have sorted out their house?

rick_chasey

Stopping general anti social and illegal behaviour amongst themselves? Rather than siding by idly whilst other “fans” make rape threats at my wife and racist insults to locals going about their business week in week out?

Like I said, I lived next to Stamford Bridge for 6 years so I have a pretty good idea of what football fans are like.

(And it was never just the home fans…)

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

But Mathieu Valet, from senior police officers' union the SICP, told the BBC's Newshour the main issue was not ticketless fans or fake tickets, but "three or four hundred French and undocumented delinquents who were there on the concourse of the Stade de France".

"It's clear that we needed more police - we didn't have enough on the ground," Mr Valet said.
Police officer using CS spray on a Liverpool fanImage source, Getty Images
Image caption,
A police officer is photographed spraying a cannister towards a Liverpool fan outside the gates

He confirmed the use of tear gas, saying it "unfortunately does not discriminate".

"It's clear that families, children, mainly English supporters, were inconvenienced by tear gas, I know it's not part of your culture but it allows us to repel attackers," he said.

Like I said, police in rest of world are not the soft touch the UK rozzers are.

This isn’t news! Fans love being victims - but they won’t sort out their own house. Always whining.

Police outside of the UK normally are much less approachable and don’t take sh!t.

How were the victims supposed to have sorted out their house?

Self policing those who misbehave?
Not wanting to condone violence but - https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18669282/ac-milan-ultras-turn-violent/

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Stopping general anti social and illegal behaviour amongst themselves? Rather than siding by idly whilst other “fans” make rape threats at my wife and racist insults to locals going about their business week in week out?

Like I said, I lived next to Stamford Bridge for 6 years so I have a pretty good idea of what football fans are like.

(And it was never just the home fans…)

Do you have a similar view of Hillsborough disaster?

rick_chasey

What does that have to do with it? I don’t see the link.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

What does that have to do with it? I don’t see the link.

There's a forest of victims out there and you can only see a single tree.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

What does that have to do with it? I don’t see the link.

It is all part of the “best fans in the world” juggernaut, next you will be quoted passages of the Taylor report.

Whatever you do don’t mention Heysel

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

What does that have to do with it? I don’t see the link.

It is all part of the “best fans in the world” juggernaut, next you will be quoted passages of the Taylor report.

Whatever you do don’t mention Heysel

It is possible to see victims in all cases.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Stopping general anti social and illegal behaviour amongst themselves? Rather than siding by idly whilst other “fans” make rape threats at my wife and racist insults to locals going about their business week in week out?

Like I said, I lived next to Stamford Bridge for 6 years so I have a pretty good idea of what football fans are like.

(And it was never just the home fans…)

Were you actually in Paris on Saturday or are you just projecting your experience with other fans onto a different group just because they are football fans?

rick_chasey

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

kingstongraham

If you have a situation where a huge crowd is pressing forward against a barrier, I don't know what you are achieving by tear gassing the ones at the front.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

If you have a situation where a huge crowd is pressing forward against a barrier, I don't know what you are achieving by tear gassing the ones at the front.

Apparently, based on this thread, vengeance.

surrey_commuter

kingstongraham said:

If you have a situation where a huge crowd is pressing forward against a barrier, I don't know what you are achieving by tear gassing the ones at the front.

In a similar situation I had a baton put against my throat I can tell you that it encourages the ones at the front to push back rather than forwards.

Pross

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

If you have a situation where a huge crowd is pressing forward against a barrier, I don't know what you are achieving by tear gassing the ones at the front.

In a similar situation I had a baton put against my throat I can tell you that it encourages the ones at the front to push back rather than forwards.

You're strong if you can push back against thousands of people behind you! I got stuck against the barrier at a concert once and I was going nowhere.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

kingstongraham said:

If you have a situation where a huge crowd is pressing forward against a barrier, I don't know what you are achieving by tear gassing the ones at the front.

In a similar situation I had a baton put against my throat I can tell you that it encourages the ones at the front to push back rather than forwards.

You're strong if you can push back against thousands of people behind you! I got stuck against the barrier at a concert once and I was going nowhere.

once people could see the baton across the throat they wouldpush back so the first few rows were all doing it.

Difficult to describe but about 12 coppers had their arms locked with their backs to us then a row of their mates were facing the crowd and would "gently" place a baton against your throat to encourage you to push back.

Then you were searched and your belt, keys and coins removed. Then you went on the terrace where kids were selling cans of drinks which seemed like a better missile than your coins

kingstongraham

That doesn't sound like a similar situation to be honest.

hamish_mctavish

rick_chasey said:

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

I see 80 year old Baron Howard of Lympne CH QC (aka Michael Howard ex-leader of the Conservative Party) was caught up in this and feared for his own safety and that of his wife. Would you class him as a racist, a rapist or both?

pangolin

hamish_mctavish said:

rick_chasey said:

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

I see 80 year old Baron Howard of Lympne CH QC (aka Michael Howard ex-leader of the Conservative Party) was caught up in this and feared for his own safety and that of his wife. Would you class him as a racist, a rapist or both?

Based on him being a football fan or him being a conservative?

hamish_mctavish

pangolin said:

hamish_mctavish said:

rick_chasey said:

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

I see 80 year old Baron Howard of Lympne CH QC (aka Michael Howard ex-leader of the Conservative Party) was caught up in this and feared for his own safety and that of his wife. Would you class him as a racist, a rapist or both?

Based on him being a football fan or him being a conservative?

He is famously a life long Liverpool fan.

surrey_commuter

hamish_mctavish said:

pangolin said:

hamish_mctavish said:

rick_chasey said:

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

I see 80 year old Baron Howard of Lympne CH QC (aka Michael Howard ex-leader of the Conservative Party) was caught up in this and feared for his own safety and that of his wife. Would you class him as a racist, a rapist or both?

Based on him being a football fan or him being a conservative?

He is famously a life long Liverpool fan.

is the answer a racist rapist?

rick_chasey

As in Michael Howard? Who ran an election campaign focused around hating on immigrants and travellers?

Maybe his campaign was informed by what he heard on the terraces?

orraloon

But did anyone threaten to overrule him?

Ben6899

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

What does that have to do with it? I don’t see the link.

It is all part of the “best fans in the world” juggernaut, next you will be quoted passages of the Taylor report.

Whatever you do don’t mention Heysel

It is possible to see victims in all cases.

Especially if you're an inward-looking scouser.

TheBigBean

Even Macron appears to be unimpressed with France's role in organising the champions league.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

Even Macron appears to be unimpressed with France's role in organising the champions league.

The only thing that matters is convincing Rick.

verylonglegs

hamish_mctavish said:

pangolin said:

hamish_mctavish said:

rick_chasey said:

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

I see 80 year old Baron Howard of Lympne CH QC (aka Michael Howard ex-leader of the Conservative Party) was caught up in this and feared for his own safety and that of his wife. Would you class him as a racist, a rapist or both?

Based on him being a football fan or him being a conservative?

He is famously a life long Liverpool fan.

Famous in his own backyard maybe. I've spent a lot of my time playing and watching football and had no idea he even liked the game let alone who he supported.

rick_chasey

Royalist wife - ya do a lot for love don’t you?

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

Royalist wife - ya do a lot for love don’t you?

Go out on your bike. Leave her to it.

rjsterry

focuszing723 said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

That’s how the local rozzers deal with them.

If ya don’t like the local policing practices, don’t go. It’s football, we all know the drill by now.

Turn your comments into black people in America know how the police in some states react to protests by black people. Does your argument still stand up?

Pretty sure you've complained in the past about the Met using kettling to deal with protests that get out of hand despite it being their standard procedure in those instances. You really do have double standards depending on where your own views / prejudices lie.

I imagine the most rozzers that Paris could muster in one shift is a couple of thousand at the absolute most. Now if several thousand people turn up he’ll bent on using physical confrontation to steal, assault and generally do what they want then how do you suggest they stop them?

Not sure what that means, I was responding to Rick's comment that the football supporters / English media should know what the police are like and not complain about heavy handedness.

My point is that for 40 years English football fans have behaved like a pirate crew. So it is probably safe to assume that the Paris police were braced for violence, theft, vagrancy and looting. And totally expectedly when they created a lawless situation to gain entry to the stadium what should they have done to stop them?

Do you have any evidence of this lawlessness as the news channels don't seem to have. The worst I've seen is people arguing with police when not being allowed into a stadium they've paid money to get a ticket to enter and a handful scaling fences after teargas had been deployed in a crowded area they couldn't escape. There is plenty of footage of police spraying crowds doing nothing wrong.

I accept that English fans don't have a great reputation abroad and have no problem with swift, harsh action being taken against those behaving badly but this looked preemptive and indiscriminate.

For 40 years English football fans have terrorised cities across Europe and that is why English football fans will be treated the way they are treated.

Ifyou want to believe that 50,000 Liverpool fans went to Paris without causing any problems then crack on.

I was at this game and offered my views to the FA enquiry but I was singing off the wrong hymnsheet.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/england-fans-outraged-by-brutal-italians-1235661.html

Who said that none of the 50,000 caused any trouble? 50,000 is the population of a decent sized town, add in alcohol and it would be incredible if there wasn't any.

However, that's a big goalpost shift from "Now if several thousand people turn up he’ll bent on using physical confrontation to steal, assault and generally do what they want..".

out of that 50,000 there will be thousands who love the intoxification of the mob, the fact thatyou can do what you want for a few days and nobody can stop you.

I don't think I have littered in my LIFE! Well, apart from all the imported $h1t which ends up in landfill or bobbing around in the sea.

rick_chasey said:

Royalist wife - ya do a lot for love don’t you?

Yes, it must be quite a task for her 😉.

ddraver

surrey_commuter said:

hamish_mctavish said:

pangolin said:

hamish_mctavish said:

rick_chasey said:

If Liverpool fans who turn up to watch Chelsea are the same who go to champions league finals then yes - not an unreasonable assumption

I see 80 year old Baron Howard of Lympne CH QC (aka Michael Howard ex-leader of the Conservative Party) was caught up in this and feared for his own safety and that of his wife. Would you class him as a racist, a rapist or both?

Based on him being a football fan or him being a conservative?

He is famously a life long Liverpool fan.

is the answer a racist rapist?

d'you know what, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that all rapists are racist...