Paul Kimmage.....

Trev The Rev

Richmond Racer wrote:

Brilliant. I had a little bet with myself on how many minutes before you popped up. I've just won a fiver off myself.

How many self confessed cheats were in Team Sky when Bradley won the Tour?

Richmond Racer

Do get over yourself, Trev. I'd be making exactly the same comments if Kimmage was banging on about OGE, for example.

Where were you when Boonen was winning all the Classics last year btw? Have you seen OPQS's line-up of back-room staff and doctors (one in particular)? Or when Phil Gil was dominating the hillies in 2011? Or the Vuelta a few months ago? Surprisingly quiet, I must say.

Had any email exchanges with Sir Dave B lately?

Trev The Rev

Richmond Racer wrote:

Do get over yourself, Trev. I'd be making exactly the same comments if Kimmage was banging on about OGE, for example.

Where were you when Boonen was winning all the Classics last year btw? Have you seen OPQS's line-up of back-room staff and doctors (one in particular)? Or when Phil Gil was dominating the hillies in 2011? Or the Vuelta a few months ago? Surprisingly quiet, I must say.

Had any email exchanges with Sir Dave B lately?

So how many self confessed cheats in Team Sky when Bradley won the Tour?

Richmond Racer

Should have learned ages ago and not fed the troll

r0bh

Trev The Rev wrote:

How many self confessed cheats were in Team Sky when Bradley won the Tour?

How many self confessed cheats were in Garmin-Sharp when Ryder won the Giro?

Trev The Rev

Richmond Racer wrote:

Should have learned ages ago and not fed the troll

Didn't Armstrong call David Walsh a troll?

lostboysaint

Richmond Racer wrote:

Had any email exchanges with Sir Dave B lately?

What a ridiculous question. What on earth could Trev learn from Sir Dave?

Trev The Rev

r0bh wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

How many self confessed cheats were in Team Sky when Bradley won the Tour?

How many self confessed cheats were in Garmin-Sharp when Ryder won the Giro?

I don't know, how many? But all the other teams being full of cheats is no excuse. Sky made a big deal about being clean and not signing any rider with a drugs conviction so Sir Dave can't have it both ways.

Rodrego Hernandez

Gazzaputt wrote:

Kimmage isn't right in the head he's one fcuked up individual with a lot of personal demons.

WTF comparing Sky to USPS FFS he's on something he has to be be. Either or I'd go with pure media whore.

Said a long time ago but his book just shouted sour grapes that he wasn't good enough and he still cannot accept that failure.

I guess that Kimmage watched the Tour!

You do know why some teams train in Tenerife don't you?

Richmond Racer

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Kimmage isn't right in the head he's one fcuked up individual with a lot of personal demons.

WTF comparing Sky to USPS FFS he's on something he has to be be. Either or I'd go with pure media whore.

Said a long time ago but his book just shouted sour grapes that he wasn't good enough and he still cannot accept that failure.

I guess that Kimmage watched the Tour!

You do know why some teams train in Tenerife don't you?

Bleeding heck, just thought: Rapha Condor JLT were there out there last month! Fark, they're doing to rip up Lincoln GP and the Tour Series this year. I KNEW John Herety was up to mischief

Rodrego Hernandez

Richmond Racer wrote:

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Kimmage isn't right in the head he's one fcuked up individual with a lot of personal demons.

WTF comparing Sky to USPS FFS he's on something he has to be be. Either or I'd go with pure media whore.

Said a long time ago but his book just shouted sour grapes that he wasn't good enough and he still cannot accept that failure.

I guess that Kimmage watched the Tour!

You do know why some teams train in Tenerife don't you?

Bleeding heck, just thought: Rapha Condor JLT were there out there last month! Fark, they're doing to rip up Lincoln GP and the Tour Series this year. I KNEW John Herety was up to mischief

Is JLT DLTs brother?

Luckily I know Sky are clean because Dave Millar said they are! Despite Dave B hiring the man who ran the Rabobank doping program and at least 2 riders known to be dirty. I believe Sky, how could any part of the Murdoch empire be dodgy?

FransJacques

Gazzaputt wrote:

Kimmage isn't right in the head he's one fcuked up individual with a lot of personal demons.

WTF comparing Sky to USPS FFS he's on something he has to be be. Either or I'd go with pure media whore.

Said a long time ago but his book just shouted sour grapes that he wasn't good enough and he still cannot accept that failure.

An ad hominum attack, very original. I love the Wiggo-lover vitriol. You sound exactly like Lance-Lovers circa 1999-2013. Keep it up.

You guys needs to control your "how dare you compare" reflexes b/c this Sky/Wiggo spotlight will not exactly decreased.

Remember in Return of the Jedi when Luke cuts off Vader's arm and the Emperor goads Luke to finish it, but he throws away high light sabre? None of you did that. You all hit the turbo button on your lightsabres and slashed right through Vaders helmet. Well done.

iainf72

FransJacques wrote:

Remember in Return of the Jedi when Luke cuts off Vader's arm and the Emperor goads Luke to finish it, but he throws away high light sabre? None of you did that. You all hit the turbo button on your lightsabres and slashed right through Vaders helmet. Well done.

Close the Forum - This post has won the internet.

Pross

FransJacques wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Kimmage isn't right in the head he's one fcuked up individual with a lot of personal demons.

WTF comparing Sky to USPS FFS he's on something he has to be be. Either or I'd go with pure media whore.

Said a long time ago but his book just shouted sour grapes that he wasn't good enough and he still cannot accept that failure.

An ad hominum attack, very original. I love the Wiggo-lover vitriol. You sound exactly like Lance-Lovers circa 1999-2013. Keep it up.

You guys needs to control your "how dare you compare" reflexes b/c this Sky/Wiggo spotlight will not exactly decreased.

Remember in Return of the Jedi when Luke cuts off Vader's arm and the Emperor goads Luke to finish it, but he throws away high light sabre? None of you did that. You all hit the turbo button on your lightsabres and slashed right through Vaders helmet. Well done.

I'm happy for comprisons. The problem is the only comparisons these people make is 'both teams set a hard pace that no-one else could match and dominated'. All that proves is that with the right people it is a good tactic. What the comparison needs to do to hold credence is to compare meaningful data such as blood values, VAM rates, times up the big climbs, short and long term power data from stages etc. etc. I'm happy to burn any doping witches but at least throw them in the water to see if they float first.

mroli

Trev The Rev wrote:

I don't know, how many? But all the other teams being full of cheats is no excuse. Sky made a big deal about being clean and not signing any rider with a drugs conviction so Sir Dave can't have it both ways.

Trev - as far as I am aware, there are no riders in that TdF team that have a drugs conviction. And no other riders in the team had one when they were signed to Sky. Yates has resigned for "personal" reasons, Barry and Julich admitted to doping in their careers and have left, Leinders has no conviction but again has been made to leave (with no admission).

I have a great deal of respect of Kimmage and if he had some concrete evidence, or even a well researched piece on doping at Sky, I would read it and give it a great deal of credit, but him just saying "it doesn't feel right" means that his position as mouthpiece of the anti-doping movement is cheapened a little. Although maybe he thinks by saying it he can turn round in 10 years and say "I told you so" if he is proved right.

@Rodrego - you are very well informed about Sky - what makes you say that they and Tenerife are dodgy? Why is Tenerife more dodgy than say Mallorca or any of the other cycling destinations? I was thinking about going there on holiday and if this is going to cast doubt on my limited Cat 4 results, I may well rethink....

Oh - and I'm not sure that RC JLT were out in Tenerife a month ago - I think they were in the Caribbean racing - so John H is off the hook!

Richmond Racer

mroli, yeah, at least some of the Rapha boys were training out in Tenerife around the 2nd week Dec - the likes of English, Porter, Mellor, Handley etc

but I dont think up to anything dodgy Well, maybe hitting the gelatos at the end of the day's ride

Bakunin

Extraterrestrials in the Sky...That sounds like solid astronomy.

FransJacques

Quote:

"I have a great deal of respect of Kimmage and if he had some concrete evidence, or even a well researched piece on doping at Sky, I would read it and give it a great deal of credit, but him just saying "it doesn't feel right" means that his position as mouthpiece of the anti-doping movement is cheapened a little. Although maybe he thinks by saying it he can turn round in 10 years and say "I told you so" if he is proved right."

This is exactly what someone meant re: John Paulson - he bet against the market and won. Kimmage & Paulson bet against Sub-Prime (aka LA) when everyone else was buying it for their portfolio. He stank like she!t at the time but came out roses. So he's reverting to strategy A and selling Wiggo/Sky when everyone else is going long Wiggo/Sky. (sorry to non-bankers for jargon)

I'm with you guys, he's thin on proof and average speeds are decreasing, so what's the fuss? In 'My Time' it is clear that Tim the trainer rejects the premise that only the star of the team does mid-season training camps and has access to all the trainers and therapists. The whole Tour team should have equal access and train equally as hard hence they know how to ride as a unit. And if 1 is fit all are fit b/c they followed the same regime.

Don't forget that Sky did what they did without Siutsou, if he had not fallen then Nibali and Evans would have had a more difficulty in launching what attacks they did.

Gazzetta67

mroli wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

I don't know, how many? But all the other teams being full of cheats is no excuse. Sky made a big deal about being clean and not signing any rider with a drugs conviction so Sir Dave can't have it both ways.

Trev - as far as I am aware, there are no riders in that TdF team that have a drugs conviction. And no other riders in the team had one when they were signed to Sky. Yates has resigned for "personal" reasons, Barry and Julich admitted to doping in their careers and have left, Leinders has no conviction but again has been made to leave (with no admission).I have a great deal of respect of Kimmage and if he had some concrete evidence, or even a well researched piece on doping at Sky, I would read it and give it a great deal of credit, but him just saying "it doesn't feel right" means that his position as mouthpiece of the anti-doping movement is cheapened a little. Although maybe he thinks by saying it he can turn round in 10 years and say "I told you so" if he is proved right.

@Rodrego - you are very well informed about Sky - what makes you say that they and Tenerife are dodgy? Why is Tenerife more dodgy than say Mallorca or any of the other cycling destinations? I was thinking about going there on holiday and if this is going to cast doubt on my limited Cat 4 results, I may well rethink....

Oh - and I'm not sure that RC JLT were out in Tenerife a month ago - I think they were in the Caribbean racing - so John H is off the hook!

So over half the dutch Rabobank riders in the 90s have said Leinders was the ringleader - But dont let that cloud your judgement. Rememeber some other "chancer" said he was tested over 500 times and never tested positive...look what happened to him !

tailwindhome

If Wiggins was dodgy, Her Majesty would not have given him a knighthood. She is clearly a better judge of character than the Twitter Taliban and their Bike Radar cohorts

tour newbie

@mroli, I go along with your assessment except that I no longer have any respect for Kimmage after this latest superficial and unsubstantiated dig at Team Sky.

Strongest team (multiple riders capable of challenging for top 10 GC in their own right - unlike Postal/Disco's juiced up journeymen) + best preparation (specific training and tactics for mountian stages) = results

No_Ta_Doctor

tour newbie wrote:

@mroli, I go along with your assessment except that I no longer have any respect for Kimmage after this latest superficial and unsubstantiated dig at Team Sky.

Strongest team (multiple riders capable of challenging for top 10 GC in their own right - unlike Postal/Disco's juiced up journeymen) + best preparation (specific training and tactics for mountian stages) = results

Yes, we need to ask how a team that managed a measly 5 top ten GT finishes last year, through 4 different riders, could possibly have the strength to dominate the other teams....

If Sky are guilty of doping then it's what Arsene Wenger called "financial doping".

rick_chasey

FransJacques wrote:

This is exactly what someone meant re: John Paulson - he bet against the market and won. Kimmage & Paulson bet against Sub-Prime (aka LA) when everyone else was buying it for their portfolio. He stank like she!t at the time but came out roses. So he's reverting to strategy A and selling Wiggo/Sky when everyone else is going long Wiggo/Sky. (sorry to non-bankers for jargon)

Quite. As Paulson (though not Kimmage) is finding out - you can't base the overall quality of your output on getting a biggie right when everyone else didn't. Especially when it's such a biggie that when said biggie happens, it changes the whole landscape.
It's a one off.

You judge each fund position, each column, article or interview on its own merits in light of all provenance of the writer - not just the bits they get right.

Macaloon

Heads-up. This is footage from the Kimmage-Cam of his interview with Sean Yates. Some fruity language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG27qGTMXa4

"You saying Bradley Wiggins can't ride a bike. WTF"

Edit: Forgot to add that this is the big problem with Kimmage: that there was nothing anomalous in the Wiggins performance. And until Kimmage, a cycling pro(!) can come up with better than USPostal comaprisons his credibility takes more damage. That's a shame.

ddraver

I dont know how anything in that article counts as news. www.cyclingrehasholdcraptokeepnameinthepapers.com?

Completly with mroli, Pross and Docman here!

Tom Butcher

What's all this about Kimmage being on to Armstrong while the rest of us were still in the dark - was there ever a time when the vast majority of cycling fans didn't assume Armstrong was on the sauce ?

What was it Anquetil said - something like does anyone really think they were riding on bread and water ?

ocdupalais

What I'm quite enjoying is some of the occassional forum random hoodlum back-street muggers (e.g. Rodriguez Hernandez & Trev (Whev*) The Rev) going all quiet because an even more occasional forum serial killer has stepped into the joint (FransJacques)...










*respect to RR

dave_1

I think Sky have made it open season on themselves so I agree Kimmage has every right to turn his sights on them. Leinders was as dodgy as they come and Sky knew Rasmussen was shady and was under Leinders. Decker went + by 2008. Sky knew this team had a problem and Leinders was their doctor. Why did Sky sign him?
I had hardly heard of Christopher Froome before 2011 Vuelta..he was really far behind at the TDF 2008..his weird trajectory and the fact he is the best climber and time trialist in the world in the past 2 years leave me wondering. I have no proof but have little faith in them now..but still hold out some hope for Wiggins.

Trev The Rev

OCDuPalais wrote:

What I'm quite enjoying is some of the occassional forum random hoodlum back-street muggers (e.g. Rodriguez Hernandez & Trev (Whev*) The Rev) going all quiet because an even more occasional forum serial killer has stepped into the joint (FransJacques)...


*respect to RR

I made several posts yesterday.

Trev The Rev

mroli wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

I don't know, how many? But all the other teams being full of cheats is no excuse. Sky made a big deal about being clean and not signing any rider with a drugs conviction so Sir Dave can't have it both ways.

Trev - as far as I am aware, there are no riders in that TdF team that have a drugs conviction. And no other riders in the team had one when they were signed to Sky. Yates has resigned for "personal" reasons, Barry and Julich admitted to doping in their careers and have left, Leinders has no conviction but again has been made to leave (with no admission).

I have a great deal of respect of Kimmage and if he had some concrete evidence, or even a well researched piece on doping at Sky, I would read it and give it a great deal of credit, but him just saying "it doesn't feel right" means that his position as mouthpiece of the anti-doping movement is cheapened a little. Although maybe he thinks by saying it he can turn round in 10 years and say "I told you so" if he is proved right.

@Rodrego - you are very well informed about Sky - what makes you say that they and Tenerife are dodgy? Why is Tenerife more dodgy than say Mallorca or any of the other cycling destinations? I was thinking about going there on holiday and if this is going to cast doubt on my limited Cat 4 results, I may well rethink....

Oh - and I'm not sure that RC JLT were out in Tenerife a month ago - I think they were in the Caribbean racing - so John H is off the hook!

As I said self confessed doping cheats. Leinders is totally exposed and Yates is a mate of Armstrong. The Tour win is tarnished.