Drugs in other sports and the media.
Comments
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Maybe my use of naive was inflammatory. I think we are both right. Pushing the boundaries of ethics will matter to many, and it will not matter to many, and there'll be hypocrites who flip flop according to their favourites, just as some will flip flop as they wrestle with the logic of conflicting arguments and the impossibility of legislating for it.RichN95 wrote:
No, I think it's naive to think that it does. These things matter to the supporter or the participant generally only when they go against them, their team or their favourite.jawooga wrote:But it's naive to think that the entire continuum up to that point of crossing the legal line doesn't matter to a lot sports fans - for the same reasons sportsmanship is important to observers and participants of most sports (kicking the ball out in football, walking in cricket, the code of the peloton, calling a foul in snooker etc)
You'll always get a few (usually very vocal) people getting on their high horse, but generally people will adhere to 'the rules are the rules'. After all, what is sport but a contest played out according to arbitrary set of rules - there's no inherent morality to it.
Maybe your arbitrary rules comment is key. Martial arts sanction what most other sports won't. And khan is about to up against a guy 20 pounds heavier than him because they can sell it as a catch weight and khan is desperate.0 -
'The Russian sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, said the drug was popular among the country’s athletes but claimed it did not boost performance. “There won’t be a huge wave but I suspect there could be several more cases. Maybe this will wake up our trainers and federation a bit. Unfortunately, a lot of athletes took this medicine,” he told the Russian news agency R-Sport. “This medicine used to be allowed, it does not do anything major, it just helped a lot of people with their recovery times; it did not offer any unfair advantages'
The Guardian.
Where to start with that tool.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
They're not hypocrites though. They are the honest ones. They can distinguish between the actual rules which define the game and are administered by the referees and the 'unwritten rules' which aren't rules at all but merely a basis for complaint. Between participants unwritten rules are only adhered to for fear of like for like reprisals - it's risk aversion.jawooga wrote:and there'll be hypocrites who flip flop according to their favourites,
PS Is that Frank Lampard (the original) in your avatar?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Gweeds wrote:'The Russian sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, said the drug was popular among the country’s athletes but claimed it did not boost performance. “There won’t be a huge wave but I suspect there could be several more cases. Maybe this will wake up our trainers and federation a bit. Unfortunately, a lot of athletes took this medicine,” he told the Russian news agency R-Sport. “This medicine used to be allowed, it does not do anything major, it just helped a lot of people with their recovery times; it did not offer any unfair advantages'
The Guardian.
Where to start with that tool.
He can't really say anything else or he'll find he's been doping with Polonium-210.0 -
Joelsim wrote:Gweeds wrote:'The Russian sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, said the drug was popular among the country’s athletes but claimed it did not boost performance. “There won’t be a huge wave but I suspect there could be several more cases. Maybe this will wake up our trainers and federation a bit. Unfortunately, a lot of athletes took this medicine,” he told the Russian news agency R-Sport. “This medicine used to be allowed, it does not do anything major, it just helped a lot of people with their recovery times; it did not offer any unfair advantages'
The Guardian.
Where to start with that tool.
He can't really say anything else or he'll find he's been doping with Polonium-210.
Ah, polonium - where "glow time" is more than a metaphor...0 -
Mildly ironic that someone claiming medicinal use to treat diabetes symptoms (amongst other things) has a major business flogging premium priced sugar candy to the fans. Sugarpova anyone?
Ethics and morals would seem to be a long way down the priority list I'd say.Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS0 -
Unless it's Type 1 Diabetes.Wheelspinner wrote:Mildly ironic that someone claiming medicinal use to treat diabetes symptoms (amongst other things) has a major business flogging premium priced sugar candy to the fans. Sugarpova anyone?
Ethics and morals would seem to be a long way down the priority list I'd say.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Then why are they now on the list?Mad_Malx wrote:Poitr wrote:The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.
This has been looked at any times - a couple of puffs won't improve performance in non asthmatics:
Kindermann W, Meyer T. Inhaled β2 agonists and performance in competitive athletes. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 2006;40(Suppl 1):i43-i47. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2006.027748.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
They're not hypocrites though. They are the honest ones. They can distinguish between the actual rules which define the game and are administered by the referees and the 'unwritten rules' which aren't rules at all but merely a basis for complaint. Between participants unwritten rules are only adhered to for fear of like for like reprisals - it's risk aversion.jawooga wrote:and there'll be hypocrites who flip flop according to their favourites,
PS Is that Frank Lampard (the original) in your avatar?
Mr Rusedski points out that caffene has been off and on the banned list over the years. Is any one who has ever drank a Red Bull worthy of Joel's Pitchfork?We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Unfortunately virtually every study is done on the wrong athletes ie cyclists and middle distance runners. The measurable effect only lasts for a few minutes so is only useful to sprinters or weightlifters etc.Mad_Malx wrote:Poitr wrote:The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.
This has been looked at any times - a couple of puffs won't improve performance in non asthmatics:
Kindermann W, Meyer T. Inhaled β2 agonists and performance in competitive athletes. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 2006;40(Suppl 1):i43-i47. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2006.027748.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
They're not hypocrites though. They are the honest ones. They can distinguish between the actual rules which define the game and are administered by the referees and the 'unwritten rules' which aren't rules at all but merely a basis for complaint. Between participants unwritten rules are only adhered to for fear of like for like reprisals - it's risk aversion.jawooga wrote:and there'll be hypocrites who flip flop according to their favourites,
PS Is that Frank Lampard (the original) in your avatar?
Yeah, a west ham forum topic years ago to draw players in ms paint. Think I might have cheated with that one and used gimp0 -
Poitr wrote:
Unfortunately virtually every study is done on the wrong athletes ie cyclists and middle distance runners. The measurable effect only lasts for a few minutes so is only useful to sprinters or weightlifters etc.Mad_Malx wrote:Poitr wrote:The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.
This has been looked at any times - a couple of puffs won't improve performance in non asthmatics:
Kindermann W, Meyer T. Inhaled β2 agonists and performance in competitive athletes. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 2006;40(Suppl 1):i43-i47. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2006.027748.
3000m steeplechase records are sub 8 and sub 9 minutes for men and women, so even a few minutes benefit might give an advantage. Cycling really is an outlier in terms of length of effort, even if being seated does make it easier to recover midrace.0 -
Nike...
Of all the sponsors it could have been, it had to be Nike...
Again...Half man, Half bike0 -
ddraver wrote:RichN95 wrote:
They're not hypocrites though. They are the honest ones. They can distinguish between the actual rules which define the game and are administered by the referees and the 'unwritten rules' which aren't rules at all but merely a basis for complaint. Between participants unwritten rules are only adhered to for fear of like for like reprisals - it's risk aversion.jawooga wrote:and there'll be hypocrites who flip flop according to their favourites,
PS Is that Frank Lampard (the original) in your avatar?
Mr Rusedski points out that caffene has been off and on the banned list over the years. Is any one who has ever drank a Red Bull worthy of Joel's Pitchfork?
Mr Rusedski perhaps.0 -
Being discussed on Radio 5 now.
Pat Cash straight to the point.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
underlayunderlay wrote:Poitr wrote:
Unfortunately virtually every study is done on the wrong athletes ie cyclists and middle distance runners. The measurable effect only lasts for a few minutes so is only useful to sprinters or weightlifters etc.Mad_Malx wrote:Poitr wrote:The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.
This has been looked at any times - a couple of puffs won't improve performance in non asthmatics:
Kindermann W, Meyer T. Inhaled β2 agonists and performance in competitive athletes. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 2006;40(Suppl 1):i43-i47. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2006.027748.
3000m steeplechase records are sub 8 and sub 9 minutes for men and women, so even a few minutes benefit might give an advantage. Cycling really is an outlier in terms of length of effort, even if being seated does make it easier to recover midrace.
Yeah yeah but Froome has one in his pocket for the climbs...
Oh! OH MY GOD! OH MY GOOOOODDDD!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vceDVxHPpxQ (and then) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I suspect a large part of this is valleys gym culture but don't think it's just a Welsh problem. Yet another ban in the semi-pro ranks of Welsh rugby. It's obvious there's targeting going on there with this being OOC testing in the third tier. I suspect there are players grinding axes and informing on people but from rumours I hear it's the tip of a very large iceberg.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/357583710 -
I think I ve covered this above but I'd be interested to know how much of that is "hardcore" as it were and how much is young peacocks trying to look big for the laydeeez. I played with a few wideboy yardie types that went on steroids for 6 weeks but they never did the gym work to build the muscles so they just got fat.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Any of us who live down here know that this is a Valley Commando roider problem. A South Wales cliche. And some of them happen to be decent at rugby too.Pross wrote:I suspect a large part of this is valleys gym culture but don't think it's just a Welsh problem. Yet another ban in the semi-pro ranks of Welsh rugby. It's obvious there's targeting going on there with this being OOC testing in the third tier. I suspect there are players grinding axes and informing on people but from rumours I hear it's the tip of a very large iceberg.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35758371
It's a social problem - deprived communities with nothing better to do than go to the gym, spray on the tan and f*ck each other.
I saw some Guardian journalist (based in Cardiff so he should know better) writing that rugby must act when surely he must know this is a social problem. But hey, let's start on the unemployed Welsh rather than the coke fuel London media. It's BS.
(Appreciate this people, this is as left wing as I get)Twitter: @RichN950 -
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Poitr wrote:
Then why are they now on the list?Mad_Malx wrote:Poitr wrote:The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.
This has been looked at any times - a couple of puffs won't improve performance in non asthmatics:
Kindermann W, Meyer T. Inhaled β2 agonists and performance in competitive athletes. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 2006;40(Suppl 1):i43-i47. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2006.027748.
Because some athletes would take a lot more than a couple of puffs, and that carries a health risk . That's why the tue has limits.0 -
The Times reporting that Sharapova had 5 communications in Dec warning that the drug was going on the banned list in 2016 - 3 from ITF, 2 from WTA
That's some supernova-level stupidity0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Any of us who live down here know that this is a Valley Commando roider problem. A South Wales cliche. And some of them happen to be decent at rugby too.Pross wrote:I suspect a large part of this is valleys gym culture but don't think it's just a Welsh problem. Yet another ban in the semi-pro ranks of Welsh rugby. It's obvious there's targeting going on there with this being OOC testing in the third tier. I suspect there are players grinding axes and informing on people but from rumours I hear it's the tip of a very large iceberg.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35758371
It's a social problem - deprived communities with nothing better to do than go to the gym, spray on the tan and f*ck each other.
I saw some Guardian journalist (based in Cardiff so he should know better) writing that rugby must act when surely he must know this is a social problem. But hey, let's start on the unemployed Welsh rather than the coke fuel London media. It's BS.
I agree re the players at semi-pro/amateur level, and that is a reflection of a wider social issue. But as much as I love rugby I find it very hard to believe that there's not fairly widespread use of Growth, Testosterone and the Roids at elite level.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:The Times reporting that Sharapova had 5 communications in Dec warning that the drug was going on the banned list in 2016 - 3 from ITF, 2 from WTA
That's some supernova-level stupidity
"Dear Maria,
Please stop with the PEDs already. We don't give a sh!t but those pesky WADA kids are onto you.
Sincerely,
Fat Cats
ps If they bust you, don't mention Serena FFS."...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
what id like to see is Maria and some other athletes chosen at ramdon, submitted to a WADA independent doctor. They can then see if she really does have medical grounds for taking this, plus any other so called medication she is on.
If more than one independent doctor says she has medical grounds for taking this it backs up here theory.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Coke fuelled media don't play professional sports...
some do. or did. Professional football.0 -
Neither do the majority of valley boy roiders.Rick Chasey wrote:Coke fuelled media don't play professional sports...
I'm sure corpses from Medellin to Cuidad Juarez can rest in peace safe in the knowledge that none of the cocaine they died for was used to cheat at games.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Neither do the majority of valley boy roiders.Rick Chasey wrote:Coke fuelled media don't play professional sports...
I'm sure corpses from Medellin to Cuidad Juarez can rest in peace safe in the knowledge that none of the cocaine they died for was used to cheat at games.
Maybe we should change the thread title to 'Drugs in the media (and other sports)'0
