Drugs in other sports and the media.

Poitr

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Meh. So she didn't check the rule changes and got caught out. I don't really share the excitement about this.

You never do Rich. Maybe your vocation is chief Pie Taster at the IAAF.

In the same way that you think everyone is a dishonest cheat, I think everyone is basically incompetent.

She and lots of other athletes were taking this - perfectly legally. Then they banned it. As with any rule change in life (smoking bans, seat belt laws, 5p plastic bags), some take longer to get the message than others.

Rich, this drug isn't even approved to use medicinally by doctors on real patients in the US. Where she lives. Either she's as thick as the big print version of the complete works of Shakespeare, or she's telling little porky pies.

It's not FDA approved because it is a foreign competitor to similar drugs made by US manufacturers. It's almost impossible to get FDA approval for foreign drugs unless you sell the license for production to a US company. The Ruskis wouldn't let that happen.

joelsim

So, the initial communication that Meldonium was being added to the banned list was Zoctober. Sharapova mentioned not clicking on the link in December (nor any of her fitness/medical staff), the briefing of the new banned list prior to the Australian Open also appears to have passed her by.

Oh and she's Russian which means she's odds-on to have been on a programme for her whole career too. I guess unknowingly.

joelsim

Poitr wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Meh. So she didn't check the rule changes and got caught out. I don't really share the excitement about this.

You never do Rich. Maybe your vocation is chief Pie Taster at the IAAF.

In the same way that you think everyone is a dishonest cheat, I think everyone is basically incompetent.

She and lots of other athletes were taking this - perfectly legally. Then they banned it. As with any rule change in life (smoking bans, seat belt laws, 5p plastic bags), some take longer to get the message than others.

Rich, this drug isn't even approved to use medicinally by doctors on real patients in the US. Where she lives. Either she's as thick as the big print version of the complete works of Shakespeare, or she's telling little porky pies.

It's not FDA approved because it is a foreign competitor to similar drugs made by US manufacturers. It's almost impossible to get FDA approval for foreign drugs unless you sell the license for production to a US company. The Ruskis wouldn't let that happen.

Does that really matter? She would've had to smuggle it in. And to then say it was for a heart condition (along with 17% of all Russian samples showing traces of Meldonium in 2015)

Poitr

The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.

Poitr

Joelsim wrote:

Poitr wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Meh. So she didn't check the rule changes and got caught out. I don't really share the excitement about this.

You never do Rich. Maybe your vocation is chief Pie Taster at the IAAF.

In the same way that you think everyone is a dishonest cheat, I think everyone is basically incompetent.

She and lots of other athletes were taking this - perfectly legally. Then they banned it. As with any rule change in life (smoking bans, seat belt laws, 5p plastic bags), some take longer to get the message than others.

Rich, this drug isn't even approved to use medicinally by doctors on real patients in the US. Where she lives. Either she's as thick as the big print version of the complete works of Shakespeare, or she's telling little porky pies.

It's not FDA approved because it is a foreign competitor to similar drugs made by US manufacturers. It's almost impossible to get FDA approval for foreign drugs unless you sell the license for production to a US company. The Ruskis wouldn't let that happen.

Does that really matter? She would've had to smuggle it in. And to then say it was for a heart condition (along with 17% of all Russian samples showing traces of Meldonium in 2015)

She wouldn't have to smuggle it in. It's not FDA approved which means a US doctor can't prescribe it. It doesn't mean it's a controlled substance. She would have it mailed to her by her Russian doctor that she has probably been seeing for 20 years. Let's try not to completely blow this out of proportion.

joelsim

So, she's a Russian with over 10 years at the top level and yet she's naive. Right. Forgive me if I don't buy that.

RichN95.

Joelsim wrote:

So, she's a Russian with over 10 years at the top level and yet she's naive. Right. Forgive me if I don't buy that.

No, not naive. Lacking competence.
If she was as clued up as you think she was, why didn't she stop taking it? Athletes were only taking it because it was legal. If they want illegal drugs there are better ones available.

Bo Duke

.... and she probably thought she was too big to get busted.....

Bo Duke

Russia doping scandal
Why the IAAF must ensure Russia remains banned for Rio Olympics

Fresh documentary on German TV showed little has changed in Russian athletics, but shouldn’t countries like Ethiopia and Kenya also be more in the firing line?

It is widely assumed Russia’s athletes will be allowed back in time for the Rio Olympics but the clock is ticking and the path getting murkier.

Monday 7 March 2016 08.18 GMT

When Russia’s athletics federation was suspended last November, the country’s sports minister, Vitaly Mutko, claimed it would take 60 days for it to “renew” and become compliant with the World Anti-Doping Agency’s code again. It was the equivalent of a used-car salesman respraying a written-off motor and swearing blind it was fit for the road. But a fresh documentary, broadcast on German TV on Sunday, suggests that under the bonnet the system is as decrepit as ever.

The programme – made by the intrepid journalist Hajo Seppelt, who is making a welcome habit of shining a spotlight into the grimiest corners of international sport – showed secret recordings of the suspended Russian coach Vladimir Mokhnev, who ARD claim was still working with elite athletes. It also presented documentary evidence that new head of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency, Anna Anzelovich, had previously informed athletes about dates for doping tests. Last November Mutko had promised fresh elections and “a 99% new leadership”. But this new guard still carries the pungent musk of the former regime.

All of which presents an intriguing problem for the IAAF, the governing body of international athletics, whose executive council meets in Monaco this week. Russia is on the agenda, although no decision about its suspension is likely to be taken. But while it is widely assumed its athletes will be allowed back in time for the Rio Olympics, the clock is ticking and the path getting murkier.

Russia should stay banned. No one can seriously argue otherwise. Re-reading Dick Pound’s independent commission report from last November provides a jolting reminder of its “deep-rooted culture of cheating”. Doping became so institutionally normal that it was as much a part of many athlete’s preparations as stepping on to the track or entering the weight room. Officials routinely gave advanced notice of proposed out-of-competition tests. Athletes adopted false identities to avoid unexpected testing. And, crucially, this poisoned philosophy seeped from the heart of the Kremlin.

The report also found that Mutko issued direct orders to “manipulate particular samples”, and that there was “direct intimidation and interference by the Russian state with the Moscow laboratory operations”. More staggeringly still, the government also set up a shadow laboratory which covered up positive doping results by destroying samples. Yes, most countries have a problem with doping. But Russia was unique both for its scale and its scope. Mutko denies everything.

Given little appears to have changed, it should be an open and shut case. But geo-politics will almost certainly trump principle. It is thought that the IAAF president, Lord Coe, accepts that Russia still has plenty to prove. The International Olympic Committee president, Thomas Bach, wants Russia’s athletes to go to Rio. And the president of Wada, Sir Craig Reedie, a longstanding member of the IOC, has shown he wants to be on good terms with Russians. A cosy compromise would surprise no one.

But if international sport was serious about tackling doping in Russia, it would be asking questions and conducting investigations that stretch far beyond athletics. According to the data company Infostrada’s virtual medal table, Russia is projected to win 68 of them in Rio, a tally that would put it third behind the USA and China. Yet it is peculiar that other Olympic sports are not under the same microscope as track and field.

Take weightlifting, a sport in which Russia is forecast to win eight medals this summer. At the world championships in December four Russians were among 17 lifters suspended after drug tests. They included three gold medallists: Aleksei Lovchev, Olga Zubova and Aleksei Kosov, who tested positive for anabolic steroids. How many other athletes, in how many other sports, might also be tainted? We can only guess.

But pry more deeply into Russia and some will rightly wonder why the authorities are not getting tougher with other serial offenders, too. The evidence is not hard to find. The Pound report quotes a senior representative of the IAAF Anti-Doping department, who said: “To be frank there is no surprise to anybody that the former Soviet Union countries have a doping culture deeply incurred [sic] in the sport. It works for Russia, it works for Ukraine, works for Belarus, for Kazakhstan, works for all the former Soviet Union countries.”


Turkish silver medal winner from London 2012 investigated for doping

And then there is Ethiopia, Turkey, Morocco and Kenya. Sure, the situation differs in each country. No one is suggesting, for instance, that Kenya’s government is involved in the systemic problems that plague Russia. But a lack of spending on anti-doping, poor education, and corruption in Athletics Kenya has allowed doping to thrive. In Ethiopia there are suggestions that the drugs problem is bigger than reported, with officials also warning athletes when anti-doping officials apply for entry visas. There was an independent commission for Russia. Why not Kenya, Ethiopia and other hotspots, too?

Trusting souls might point to the extreme cost and difficulties of such an approach. Perhaps they are right. But some countries and sports might justly fear the horrors that may be unearthed. And how the thin veneer between what we marvel at, and what we doubt, could be cracked even further.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/m ... tes-banned

Richmond Racer 2

She can afford an excellent PR team, who advise her to go on the front foot. Which has the benefit of earning her mucho support.

Lots of people already making excuses for her. Loads of sympathy garnered and working for her.

Good PR at work. Own the narrative. Classic playbook stuff.

She'll get a ban, though it won't be lengthy.

Nike have dropped her for the moment. But that's just part of the planned PR strategy that included Sharapova, her team, her agents IMG, and her major sponsors - everyone who has a stake in the Maria Sharapova brand.

This is one very well managed exercise. One for the PR textbooks.

gweeds

'The 18-times grand slam winner Martina Navratilova (@Martina) tweeted: “Sharapova Announces That She Failed Doping Test, -hope this gets cleared up as it seems 2 me to be an honest mistake”. She later tweeted: “Hold your horses everyone- about Maria- I don’t have all the facts, I hope it’s an honest mistake,stuff was legal as far as I know till 2015”.'

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/m ... drugs-test

I'm not buying it one bit.

And for me the fact that it was legal simply means the authorities were, as usual, playing catch-up. It may well have been legal, but it was still performance enhancing. And the idea that a player at this level, with this many people around her, didn't read a WADA list is just absolute bollocks.

rick_chasey

Does she still train with the same coach as the Williams sisters?

I know she did year and years ago when I followed women's tennis, but that was a long time ago. Same style - hit it hard, hit it harder if you need to, grunt a lot.

Macaloon

This is just a smokescreen for match fixing at the London Olympics.

shinyhelmut

But I thought tennis was all about skill, and as a result PEDs are superfluous

ic.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

She can afford an excellent PR team, who advise her to go on the front foot. Which has the benefit of earning her mucho support.

Lots of people already making excuses for her. Loads of sympathy garnered and working for her.

Good PR at work. Own the narrative. Classic playbook stuff.

She'll get a ban, though it won't be lengthy.

Nike have dropped her for the moment. But that's just part of the planned PR strategy that included Sharapova, her team, her agents IMG, and her major sponsors - everyone who has a stake in the Maria Sharapova brand.

This is one very well managed exercise. One for the PR textbooks.

This. Spot on RR

Mad_Malx

Poitr wrote:

The real problem that this is going to expose is where does the line lie between drugs that treat chronic ailments and drugs that are performance enhancing. If I have a protruding disc in my back, taking a pain killer will enhance my performance. If I'm asthmatic (even if your not actually) a couple of puffs on a ventolin inhaler will improve my performance. Ritalin is on the list which means if you have a kid with ADHD and he's good at sport, he has to come off his meds to compete at a high level.

This has been looked at any times - a couple of puffs won't improve performance in non asthmatics:
Kindermann W, Meyer T. Inhaled β2 agonists and performance in competitive athletes. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 2006;40(Suppl 1):i43-i47. doi:10.1136/bjsm.2006.027748.

ddraver

Poitr wrote:

Let's try not to completely blow this out of proportion.

Man, you ve clearly never met joel

Richmond Racer 2

^this talk of a couple of toots on a inhaler giving a non-asthmatic wings, is one of the biggest red herrings out there

mulletmaster

Personally I see this as an episode indicative of endemic 'sharp practice' at the top level of sports.
As mentioned above it's highly unlikely she has been knowingly been taking it as a banned substance as if she was going to dope she maybas well go the whole hog.
Rather it's a case of someone knowingly taking something performance enhancing but legal (or more accurately not on the WADA list).
Personally I think if you want to live by the sword like that then you have to die by it if you aren't good enough to make sure your regimen is still legal.
As such she should drop the horse manure heart complaint nonsense and take her ban on the chin.

bigmat

Meldonium for diabetes? WTF - why didn't anyone tell me?! Seriously, I smell bull****...

joelsim

Man, some of you guys are so trusting.

She's an elite athlete with a huge entourage of advisers, some of them medical.

And yet she is taking something prescribed by her family doctor for chronic heart conditions.

Just to add to this.

Sky Sports are going big on just how easy it is to find Meldonium (and/or Mildronate) on the banned list. Takes them about 10 seconds on the demo.

Peter Van Eenoo (Head of Gent anti-doping lab: "I find it hard to believe [that she wasn't aware] coming from someone who's so professional and has that sort of entourage.

From L'Equipe: http://www.lequipe.fr/Tennis/Actualites ... ova/641184

And just to add that the Russian Tennis Federation have stated that they expect her to play in Rio

It's what's known in the trade as game, set & match.

Mad_Malx

^this

gweeds

Sharapova earnings for 2015 - £20.9m

WADA annual budget for 2015 - £17.6m

philbar72

Gweeds wrote:

Sharapova earnings for 2015 - £20.9m

WADA annual budget for 2015 - £17.6m

so in summary, this one will go away then.... thing is she wasn't the dominant force in her sport. just the most marketable....

RichN95.

Joelsim wrote:

Sky Sports are going big on just how easy it is to find Meldonium (and/or Mildronate) on the banned list. Takes them about 10 seconds on the demo.

Peter Van Eenoo (Head of Gent anti-doping lab: "I find it hard to believe [that she wasn't aware] coming from someone who's so professional and has that sort of entourage.

So I ask again. If they must have been aware, why didn't she stop taking it?

It's easily detectable and seems a pretty crap PED. And she took it in competition where she was sure to be tested. That's not just incompetence, that's willful incompetence.

Athletes were only taking because it was legal. There's better illegal stuff out there, that's harder to detect

Mad_Malx

Because doping is barely on the radar in tennis?

Richmond Racer 2

Speculation rife today in Russian media re a positive for a major Russian Olympic speed skating champion on this gear

This guy served a 2 year doping ban, returned, became a world class speed skate sprinter and now totally dominates the sprint scene in a way almost unprecented in the sport

So, no, I don't think it is a 'pretty crap' PED, Rich

joelsim

RichN95 wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Sky Sports are going big on just how easy it is to find Meldonium (and/or Mildronate) on the banned list. Takes them about 10 seconds on the demo.

Peter Van Eenoo (Head of Gent anti-doping lab: "I find it hard to believe [that she wasn't aware] coming from someone who's so professional and has that sort of entourage.

So I ask again. If they must have been aware, why didn't she stop taking it?

It's easily detectable and seems a pretty crap PED. And she took it in competition where she was sure to be tested. That's not just incompetence, that's willful incompetence.

Athletes were only taking because it was legal. There's better illegal stuff out there, that's harder to detect

You seem to assume that she was only taking this Rich.

flite

"I think this is just a load of nonsense," Russian Tennis Federation president Shamil Tarpishchev told the TASS news agency.
"I think Sharapova will play at the Olympics.

"The sportsmen take what they are given by the physiotherapists and by the doctors. However, we will need to see how this will develop."

And that last sentence says all you need to know about sport in Russia

RichN95.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Speculation rife today in Russian media re a positive for a major Russian Olympic speed skating champion on this gear

This guy served a 2 year doping ban, returned, became a world class speed skate sprinter and now totally dominates the sprint scene in a way almost unprecented in the sport

So, no, I don't think it is a 'pretty crap' PED, Rich

If it's so great why are almost only Russian and ex-Soviet countries using a miracle product that is available on Amazon?

Is it so good that you would willfully throw away a multi-million dollar brand on the hope you wouldn't get tested at a Grand Slam.