Drugs in other sports and the media.

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  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    I think you guys are underestimating the impact of drugs in skill sports. No, endurance is not the defining factor as it is with cycling and athletics, but...

    If you seriously think a team playing give and go for a full 90 minutes doesn't have a serious advantage over a team whose tactics decline with fatigue then you don't know anything about sport.

    How many games are won in the last few minutes?

    Peds will not enhance skill levels but they will limit a reduction in skill through fatigue during a game.

    I remember pundits gushing over how Spain were still passing the ball so effortlessly round opposition teams in the dying minutes of some world cup games. That had me raising eyebrows. Obviously they are a good team to begin with but it's funny how the skill gap just seems to get bigger and bigger throughout the course of a game.

    Peds would never be the first port of call in a skill sport but eventually when you're looking for marginal gains, peds provide very real benefits. Of course they're in widespread use in a sport awash with money and a notional testing regime.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24672616
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    Drugs have always been a part of football haven't they? It's widely believed that the German team in 1954 used stuff, with the likes of Beckenbauer and Bernd Schuster also admitting to it being pretty widespread during their time. Fast forward to the nandrolone problems players like Stam and Davids had, with their being accusations against the French squad from the 98 World Cup and it's hardly that much of a stretch to suggest football isn't rife with it.

    Joey Barton said recently that he hasn't had a single blood test in his entire career, so with such little risk involved and such large potential gains (financially and otherwise), surely the players and clubs would be daft not to?

    I mean if the UCI were complicit in keeping Armstrong on the road, it's not that much of a stretch to believe FIFA/UEFA have a strong interest in ensuring the best players are able to play at their best week in, week out.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,655
    For drugs in football it's worth having a peak at this
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 19563.html

    I don't think it should be underestimated that playing a pressing game takes a lot of stamina. It's not just about taking a skilled player and making him a tiny bit quicker and a tiny bit stronger, a huge amount of football is "just" about running off the ball.
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  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    a huge amount of football is "just" about running off the ball.

    Or in the case of the England team, running after the ball as teams pass it around us.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    phreak wrote:
    Drugs have always been a part of football haven't they? It's widely believed that the German team in 1954 used stuff, with the likes of Beckenbauer and Bernd Schuster also admitting to it being pretty widespread during their time. Fast forward to the nandrolone problems players like Stam and Davids had, with their being accusations against the French squad from the 98 World Cup and it's hardly that much of a stretch to suggest football isn't rife with it.

    Joey Barton said recently that he hasn't had a single blood test in his entire career, so with such little risk involved and such large potential gains (financially and otherwise), surely the players and clubs would be daft not to?

    I mean if the UCI were complicit in keeping Armstrong on the road, it's not that much of a stretch to believe FIFA/UEFA have a strong interest in ensuring the best players are able to play at their best week in, week out.

    Please don't suggest that FIFA are corrupt. That's a ridiculous notion.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Mikey23 wrote:
    And kept anonymous, fined and offered counselling...
    Which is a decent approach to recreational drugs
  • PostieJohn
    PostieJohn Posts: 1,105
    GO F**K YOURSELF 'RESPECTED' JOURNALIST JIM WHITE.

    While answering the innocuous question on Fight Talk 'what are the endangered species in Sport', he replied 'a credible TdF winner'.

    Once again go f**k yourself.

    For a start I can point to the last 3 winners of Le Tour as being credible and that's because they have tested credible.

    Why don't you and your ilk, do your f**kin job properly and actually ask the questions that need answering:-

    * Who's blood is in the other 200 bags.
    * Why don't the FA UEFA FIFA ATP PGA and on and on, do creditable testing.
    * Since when was a random one off URINE test credible.
    * Why do team x y & z always manage to win games in the last 10 mins.
    * How come players can have 6 hour 'battles' and play the final the next day.
    * Why don't people in sports worth 100's of millions to the best cheat, but cyclist do.
    * How can sports that are reluctant to test be deemed clean.

    Oh no sorry I forgot Jim, the one thing you can't do is bite the hand that feeds you.
    You're far to busy with your head in the trough to look around at who your gorging with.

    Hey Jim, do you know why Lance got away with 'it' for so long?
    It's because all bar 2 journo's were suckling on his teet, riding the gravy train, just asking for more bitty.

    Does that sound familiar Jim?

    How's your new book Jim, what's it called?
    The History of the Premier League blah blah blah.
    God forbid you ever lose your press pass, by asking even 1 question that might ruffle a few feathers.

    GO F**K YOURSELF JIM.
    and while your at it, practise saying:-

    'well I knew something was up all along, I just couldn't prove it'.

    Do one.



    and relax.
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... t=12792776
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    PostieJohn wrote:
    While answering the innocuous question on Fight Talk 'what are the endangered species in Sport', he replied 'a credible TdF winner'.
    By contrast there was Henning Wehn answering something like what unusual commentator would you like to hear and he said 'I'd like to hear Dr Fuentes commentating on the Spanish national football team'. I'm not sure the others knew what he was on about.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • PostieJohn
    PostieJohn Posts: 1,105
    RichN95 wrote:
    By contrast there was Henning Wehn answering something like what unusual commentator would you like to hear and he said 'I'd like to hear Dr Fuentes commentating on the Spanish national football team'. I'm not sure the others knew what he was on about.
    Exactly, stony silence.

    One day they will know and it'll be such a surprise.

    Remember: No drug can make you kick all ball straight. :roll:
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... t=12792776
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,655
    PostieJohn wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    By contrast there was Henning Wehn answering something like what unusual commentator would you like to hear and he said 'I'd like to hear Dr Fuentes commentating on the Spanish national football team'. I'm not sure the others knew what he was on about.
    Exactly, stony silence.

    One day they will know and it'll be such a surprise.

    Remember: No drug can make you kick all ball straight. :roll:

    There are quite a few that can make you kick it well wonky though.
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  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,183
    No-one ever seems to moan about those cheating pigeons...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24658278

    Edit, except BelgianBeerGeek who beat me by a week!
  • menchovʹsstabilisers
    menchovʹsstabilisers Posts: 122
    RichN95 wrote:
    Like I said - it can make a League 1 player play like a League 1 player longer and more often

    And you know why some players are only in League One?

    Because they got released by Premier League academies for being too small.

    My team won League One a few years back playing great passing football. We lasted a season in the Championship. Not because we got out-passed, but because we got out-muscled. The difference between League One and the Championship wasn't technical ability but physicality: players were bigger, quicker, stronger and generally more athletic.

    It was an eye opener.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,317
    Menchov'sStabilisers wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Like I said - it can make a League 1 player play like a League 1 player longer and more often

    And you know why some players are only in League One?

    Because they got released by Premier League academies for being too small.

    My team won League One a few years back playing great passing football. We lasted a season in the Championship. Not because we got out-passed, but because we got out-muscled. The difference between League One and the Championship wasn't technical ability but physicality: players were bigger, quicker, stronger and generally more athletic.

    It was an eye opener.

    So to summarise: players in the league above were "better"?

    Interesting.
  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    The Kenyan runners are now coming under pressure.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-s ... -1.1578238

    I only just stumbled across this article as it doesn't seem to have caused too much of a stir in the sporting press. I wonder if 17 cyclists from one country had tested positive in the last twenty four months, would the press be giving them such an easy time?

    It actually appears that the Armstrong Affair is slowly shining the light on other sports as they (each sport) are finally asking the question; How clean are the athletes in our sport? The penny is slowly beginning to drop and other sports are realising it is not just the cyclists who are/were dabbling in the stuff. I await patiently the huge and sustained outbursts of shock and outrage from the sporting press that no doubt will follow all these positive dope tests in track-and-field. I think I could be waiting a while. :lol:

    DD.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    The German team that won the World Cup in 54 were using drugs and they were rumoured to be be doing it in 66 too. Yes drugs won't give you the technical ability but they can help with other aspects of the game.

    If drugs didn't work in football then were wouldn't be a cross over of some of the same doctors.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    sherer wrote:
    The German team that won the World Cup in 54 were using drugs and they were rumoured to be be doing it in 66 too. Yes drugs won't give you the technical ability but they can help with other aspects of the game.

    If drugs didn't work in football then were wouldn't be a cross over of some of the same doctors.

    Luckily so too did the Russian linesman
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Not actually to do with doping but today an international hockey player I know tweeted how he had given blood this morning. I wondered what would happen if a cyclist tweeted that.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    RichN95 wrote:
    Not actually to do with doping but today an international hockey player I know tweeted how he had given blood this morning. I wondered what would happen if a cyclist tweeted that.


    :?: Cyclists are often tweeting about a visit from the vampires
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    I assume Rich means 'given blood' as in donating? The implication being the likely cynical response to a cyclist doing that. I could of course be completely wrong!
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Pross wrote:
    I assume Rich means 'given blood' as in donating? The implication being the likely cynical response to a cyclist doing that. I could have course be completely wrong!


    Ah, soz Rich if you meant the donor sort


    But on the subject of testing....the British Professional Players Union are having a fit over WADA's proposed Code change for max suspension to 4 years, to include recreationals. They call it 'barbaric' that being done for doing a Boonen could see you out of sport for 4 years.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... g-use.html


    Zzzzzzz. Get with it, folks. Drugs are baaaaad, athletes (if you want to stop being an athlete, go knock yourself out). Even grass has a performance benefits in steadying the nerves (though perhaps less so in helping you stick to your strict athletic diet for the day)
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Pross wrote:
    I assume Rich means 'given blood' as in donating? The implication being the likely cynical response to a cyclist doing that. I could have course be completely wrong!
    Yes, I did. Giving a pint to the blood service.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,655
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    I assume Rich means 'given blood' as in donating? The implication being the likely cynical response to a cyclist doing that. I could have course be completely wrong!


    Ah, soz Rich if you meant the donor sort


    But on the subject of testing....the British Professional Players Union are having a fit over WADA's proposed Code change for max suspension to 4 years, to include recreationals. They call it 'barbaric' that being done for doing a Boonen could see you out of sport for 4 years.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... g-use.html


    Zzzzzzz. Get with it, folks. Drugs are baaaaad, athletes (if you want to stop being an athlete, go knock yourself out). Even grass has a performance benefits in steadying the nerves (though perhaps less so in helping you stick to your strict athletic diet for the day)

    If it's performance enhancing then put it on the PEDs list. If it's strictly recreational then it's a violation of civil liberties to test for it, not to mention being a shocking waste of money. Grass is legal in some places, alcohol illegal in others. The laws regarding them are formed from moral, political and religious standpoints that have no place in sport. Any test for recreational drugs is nothing more than a test of the morality of a player, as defined by a particular conservative world view. Perhaps we should check their criminal records and driving licenses too?
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  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Got to disagree, there. Whizz, powder - all have some potential benefits. And no, its not a breach of civil liberties. When an athlete signs up to a sport under the WADA umbrella, they sign a contract that in effect says that they''ll abide by the WADA Code, and agree to all the testing and penalties if they testing positive - that includes everything on the banned list inc the recreationals.

    Just because you havent got over the dissolution of the Free State of Christiania :wink:
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,655
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Got to disagree, there. Whizz, powder - all have some potential benefits. And no, its not a breach of civil liberties. When an athlete signs up to a sport under the WADA umbrella, they sign a contract that in effect says that they''ll abide by the WADA Code, and agree to all the testing and penalties if they testing positive - that includes everything on the banned list inc the recreationals.

    Just because you havent got over the dissolution of the Free State of Christiania :wink:

    If there are sporting benefits to them then test for them as PEDs, no problem. That's not what they're doing though. What they're doing has all the moral legitimacy of enforcing a "no points on your driving licence" rule.

    My only drugs nowadays are all legal, btw ;-) Some of them are actually regulated by WADA in some sports (shooting and archery spring to mind).

    Christiania is happily alive and well, though it could do with a helping hand: http://www.christianiafolkeaktie.dk/ :-)
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  • ManOfKent
    ManOfKent Posts: 392
    Back to the original topic, some regressive opinions from the world's number one tennis player...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24831468
  • ad_snow
    ad_snow Posts: 469
    ManOfKent wrote:
    Back to the original topic, some regressive opinions from the world's number two tennis player...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24831468

    Nadal overtook him last night.
    www.adriansnowcycling.blogspot.com
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Djokovic is protesting and bad-mouthing WADA a bit too much for it just be about his bestie, Troiki

    I smell a rat
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,183
    Round of applause for the dour Scot:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24872914

    Think I remember him saying something a bit different not too long ago, so things are slowly improving.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Lol, pretty funny reading some of the comments from the pros particularly Novak. It just goes to show how advanced and tough Cycling doping prevention is.
    Contador is the Greatest

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