Drugs in other sports and the media.
Comments
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683461#p19683461]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:And now we are in the 'mob' phase
Fugly.
Or is it just justifiable indignation that another sporting hero may well have been cheating?
Evidence please!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683461#p19683461]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:And now we are in the 'mob' phase
Fugly.
Or is it just justifiable indignation that another sporting hero may well have been cheating?
Its the whipping up into a frenzy. No evidence, but immediate labelling of 'guilty'. Happened at this year's Tour. And surprise surprise, many of the usual social media accounts who spend what seems to be 20 hours a day posting non-stop about a cyclist 'doping', are now good enough to share some of their posting energies on Radcliffe as well.
In the case of many, its got fark all to do with the subject being a 'sporting hero' of their's. Not actually sure how many such actually take part or watch any sport tbh.
Now if we were looking at people such as ex-physios, training partners, medics - coming forward and claiming she had done xx....or whistleblowers claiming that UKA had covered up a positive test - I'd feel differently. But this isnt about any of that.
This is mob judgement in the absence of any evidence.
And her reluctance to publish her values is not a sign of guilt. Nor would it stand up in any legal process.
Edifying stuff.0 -
She was fast. Isn't that conclusive proof?[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683491#p19683491]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683461#p19683461]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:And now we are in the 'mob' phase
Fugly.
Or is it just justifiable indignation that another sporting hero may well have been cheating?
Evidence please!
I can't immediately think of another athlete or cyclist who's been as outspoken as her and then later found to have cheated. She was also a very talented runner from her teens, not someone who only developed after exposure to coaching and the pressures of competition.
Call me naive, but I happen to think Radcliffe was clean. I'm sure some other British star athletes of the last 30-odd years weren't.0 -
Coe has refused to give up his Nike role and associated $$$. So the man who's going to clean up the sport in many people's eyes, is on the same payroll as multiple athletes who've previously been banned, and probably many of those who are currently cheating. Never mind the on-going USADA investigation into the activities of Nike bankrolled Salazar. How to blow your credibility on day 1 your Lordship.
What a joke.
As an aside - Seb also said that being elected was up there with the birth of his 4 kids as the best day of his life (not the Olympic golds?!).
Pity he didn't have any respect for the woman who actually gave birth to those kids for him, when he was off having it away with all and sundry when they were married.
Amazing athlete. Slimey example of a person.0 -
^WURD0
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How is Coe still getting paid six figures by Nike and heading up the IAAF not a conflict of interests? I often wonder if anyone at the very top of elite sports administration have thoughts for anything other than themselves. Must be so disheartening for those lower down the chain who genuinely want to make a difference to see things like this.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683461#p19683461]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:And now we are in the 'mob' phase
Fugly.
I'm not in a mob, I've been sceptical for years.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683461#p19683461]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:And now we are in the 'mob' phase
Fugly.
I'm not in a mob, I've been sceptical for years.
based on what? I'm not having a dig, just genuinely puzzled as an athletics layman."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683401#p19683401]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Why are people obsessed with Paula Radcliffe, who spent her entire career outspoken about doping, being a doper? What are they basing it on?
Not that I have any particular suspicion myself but it's probably because she went from also ran to world beater relatively late in her career, setting records that haven't been touched in the decade since- she has four of the five fastest women's marathon times in history.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
interesting article from the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33997246
Makes no mention at all of doping being used in football, golf and tennis though.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683521#p19683521]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683461#p19683461]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:And now we are in the 'mob' phase
Fugly.
I'm not in a mob, I've been sceptical for years.
based on what? I'm not having a dig, just genuinely puzzled as an athletics layman.
I don't have a secret dossier, but I think running that much quicker than everyone else in an era with rampant doping in all endurance sports and no testing available, should be subject to a bit of suspicion. It's also the same basis of suspicion that she has used to criticise other athletes, so I don't feel all that guilty.0 -
interesting article from the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33997246
Makes no mention at all of doping being used in football, golf and tennis though.
Big £££ sports. They don't want to frighten the children.0 -
Radcliffe is allegedly the athlete on this suspicious blood value list. See article. The media know the name of who it is but there is a super injunction stopping anyone from publishing it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11282513/Top-British-athletics-star-accused-of-doping-by-German-documentary.html0 -
Radcliffe is allegedly the athlete on this suspicious blood value list. See article. The media know the name of who it is but there is a super injunction stopping anyone from publishing it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11282513/Top-British-athletics-star-accused-of-doping-by-German-documentary.html
THERE. IS. NO. SUPER-INJUNCTION.
Entirely possible that the Sunday Times lawyers have told the Editor not to publish without risking a lawsuit
but that is not a super-injunction
Joel, as has already been explained here, even super-injunctions are only legally enforceable in the specific legal jurisdiction - in this case, the UK. German media for example could proceed. French media CERTAINLY would have no compunction.
At some point it might sink into peoples brains that this is confidential data, handed over to the media without the 'owner's or the subjects' permission, that the subject has every right to feel aggrieved at being spread around the place.0 -
Hypocrites should be applauded, not shamed in public on a ducking stool. If they weren't around, many of us would feel less virtuous. I'd make an exception for his Lordship. His exposure needs to be swift and brutal to maintain the facade that it's just a game....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683557#p19683557]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:Radcliffe is allegedly the athlete on this suspicious blood value list. See article. The media know the name of who it is but there is a super injunction stopping anyone from publishing it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11282513/Top-British-athletics-star-accused-of-doping-by-German-documentary.html
THERE. IS. NO. SUPER-INJUNCTION.
Entirely possible that the Sunday Times lawyers have told the Editor not to publish without risking a lawsuit
but that is not a super-injunction
Joel, as has already been explained here, even super-injunctions are only legally enforceable in the specific legal jurisdiction - in this case, the UK. German media for example could proceed. French media CERTAINLY would have no compunction.
At some point it might sink into peoples brains that this is confidential data, handed over to the media without the 'owner's or the subjects' permission, that the subject has every right to feel aggrieved at being spread around the place.
I've heard differently and that there is definitely a super injunction. As with everything, who knows.0 -
In this case Joel, I strongly suspect that Richmond Racer is the far more informed RR than Race Radio....
I don't know mate. All I'm saying is this is where and when the rumours started. Since then I'm told it was supposed to have been featured on TV but that 'Paula has very good lawyers'. The truth is no-one knows what the truth is, and it is all speculation and conjecture currently.
EDIT: It is strange that the name of the athlete it refers to has never been published.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683541#p19683541]Richmond Racer 2[/url] wrote:interesting article from the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/33997246
Makes no mention at all of doping being used in football, golf and tennis though.
Big £££ sports. They don't want to frighten the children.
True just a shame that a major news \ broadcasting site make it seem like only certain sports have a problem with doping when it seems to be nearly every sport out there.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683401#p19683401]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Why are people obsessed with Paula Radcliffe, who spent her entire career outspoken about doping, being a doper? What are they basing it on?
Not that I have any particular suspicion myself but it's probably because she went from also ran to world beater relatively late in her career, setting records that haven't been touched in the decade since- she has four of the five fastest women's marathon times in history.
It's quite hard to read much into PR's marathon times as she made her debut in 2002 aged 28 so there are no "youthful" performances against which to compare.
The 10k is a different matter. In the 1999 WCs and the 2000 OGs she ran with the same tactics in the same race situation - go as fast as possible to try and burn off the fast finishers. In both these races she clocked 30:27, which seems like a decent estimate of the fastest she was capable of aged 25/26, as she didn't win and presumably didn't coast home.
In the 2002 European Champs, victory was never really in doubt given the quality of the field but she again ran as fast as she could from the off and clocked 30:01.
So if one is being cynical, one could ask if a 26s improvement over 10k is likely aged 28, given that she'd already explored the boundaries of how fast she could run in several major championship finals. By my reckoning, this is approximately 4%-5% more power, all other things being equal. Which is a lot at that age.
Throw in her dominance over the marathon and it's easy to see why some folk are suspicious (myself included). If it's too good to be true...0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683608#p19683608]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683401#p19683401]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:
Why are people obsessed with Paula Radcliffe, who spent her entire career outspoken about doping, being a doper? What are they basing it on?
Not that I have any particular suspicion myself but it's probably because she went from also ran to world beater relatively late in her career, setting records that haven't been touched in the decade since- she has four of the five fastest women's marathon times in history.
It's quite hard to read much into PR's marathon times as she made her debut in 2002 aged 28 so there are no "youthful" performances against which to compare.
The 10k is a different matter. In the 1999 WCs and the 2000 OGs she ran with the same tactics in the same race situation - go as fast as possible to try and burn off the fast finishers. In both these races she clocked 30:27, which seems like a decent estimate of the fastest she was capable of aged 25/26, as she didn't win and presumably didn't coast home.
In the 2002 European Champs, victory was never really in doubt given the quality of the field but she again ran as fast as she could from the off and clocked 30:01.
So if one is being cynical, one could ask if a 26s improvement over 10k is likely aged 28, given that she'd already explored the boundaries of how fast she could run in several major championship finals. By my reckoning, this is approximately 4%-5% more power, all other things being equal. Which is a lot at that age.
Throw in her dominance over the marathon and it's easy to see why some folk are suspicious (myself included). If it's too good to be true...
Well it's an amazing record for the marathon in 2003, 12 years ago, 3 minutes faster than anyone else has ever run, and right smack in the EPO/transfusion era.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683608#p19683608]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:So if one is being cynical, one could ask if a 26s improvement over 10k is likely aged 28, given that she'd already explored the boundaries of how fast she could run in several major championship finals. By my reckoning, this is approximately 4%-5% more power, all other things being equal. Which is a lot at that age.
I would be really interested to see your working for this, "power" is rarely used as a metric in running.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683608#p19683608]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:So if one is being cynical, one could ask if a 26s improvement over 10k is likely aged 28, given that she'd already explored the boundaries of how fast she could run in several major championship finals. By my reckoning, this is approximately 4%-5% more power, all other things being equal. Which is a lot at that age.
I would be really interested to see your working for this, "power" is rarely used as a metric in running.
What r0bh says0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19683608#p19683608]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:So if one is being cynical, one could ask if a 26s improvement over 10k is likely aged 28, given that she'd already explored the boundaries of how fast she could run in several major championship finals. By my reckoning, this is approximately 4%-5% more power, all other things being equal. Which is a lot at that age.
I would be really interested to see your working for this, "power" is rarely used as a metric in running.
Crudely, there is a cubic relationship between increases in speed and increases in power in pretty much all activities involving getting from A to B on the flat or on static machines.
The speed increase is approx 1.5%, so the power increase is approximately 3 times this. I don't think the relationship is exact, but it's a useful rule of thumb.
Whilst one may not focus on power in running (I assume this is only because the power meter companies haven't worked out how to fit them into running shoes) if you're going faster than before then all other things equal (technique, weight, track, kit etc.) then you're outputting more power. And we know from cycling that a 5% improvement is power in your late 20s is hard to explain!0 -
Have you seen Paula's husband? I mean I wouldn't put anything past that mug.Contador is the Greatest0
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So, thus far, the summary of the evidence is:
1. They're all at it
2. There's a rumour that there's a rumour that her name is on the list
3. She's fast
4. Her hubby looks dodgy.
in those immortal lines:
"The evidence before the court is incontrivertible
there's no need for the jury to retire"0 -
You also need to look at how she was focussing her training pre-02.
Whilst obviously always putting in decent mileage, PR became a bit obssessed with getting outkicked at the major champs, and repeatedly tried to work on her speed - problem is by early 20s your speed is pretty much what it is. No matter what she did she was always unlikely to compete with a 60 or 61 second last lap, given that was probably as quick as she could run for a single 400m. there was an interview some time around the late 90s / 2000 which references her banging in loads of sprints at the end of a session the journo watched.
The move to looking at the Marathon (and the $ it brings) meant she upped the mileage and effectively played to her strengths, which was her strength / endurance. 30 min is 72 seconds / 400m - not super quick, so once she had the endurance to do it 25 times in a row, from her 140 mpw regime, you get the Munich Euros performance.
Now, people will say that all sounds v convinient, and indeed it may do. The bigger question is the processes that enabled her to carry out that 140mpw - it's known she was a client of Hans Muller-Wohlfahrt and he is quite open about using Actovegin on people (not saying PR had that but he's a big fan of it). She also wrote in her book about being diagnosed with thyroid problems and having that dealt with.
My view - EPO or blood transfusions? Probably not. Lots of other things that exist in the 'grey areas' but not banned by WADA - probably yes. She's super-confident (arrogant?) that what she believes is true (i.e. what she did was fine and not doping in her mind, whatever it was) so no issues with being 'anti-doping' whilst getting stuck with needles (possibly).
On another note she once cut me up in a track session then had a go that it was my fault. Suggest the pro cyclists in Monaco stay out of the way of her driving....0 -
You're forgetting that she used to train in Albuquerque. Putting that through a cycling translator it means that she was training in Tenerife.0
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Have you seen Paula's husband? I mean I wouldn't put anything past that mug.
Oi. I knew him a bit back in the day and whilst a difficult (miserable) type a lot of the time I don't think he'd go down that route. A lot of people who know him well would agree. I could be completely wrong of course.
I was once asked to help pace him to 800m of a 1500m when he was coming back from injury - the pace required wasn't super-quick but he still asked point blank if I could handle it. git ;-)0 -
That's the thing. When you ask her and other athletes whether they dope they think of epo, hgh, blood transfusions, steroids and proper drugs. So they say no. But drugs as we understand in cycling, nah, they think those as just training aids.Contador is the Greatest0
