Drugs in other sports and the media.

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  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Cricket has bigger cheating problems than doping.

    No joke. Unsurprisingly, the Pakistanis have a long history of bribery and match fixing as have the Indians and the South Africans.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,730
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Cricket has bigger cheating problems than doping.

    No joke. Unsurprisingly, the Pakistanis have a long history of bribery and match fixing as have the Indians and the South Africans.

    Why is that unsurprising? :|

    Spell it out.
    _
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Cricket has bigger cheating problems than doping.

    No joke. Unsurprisingly, the Pakistanis have a long history of bribery and match fixing as have the Indians and the South Africans.

    Why is that unsurprising? :|

    Spell it out.
    Well, we all know he's a troll with (or perhaps pretending to have) some dodgy attitudes, but:
    https://www.transparency.org/country/PAK
    https://www.transparency.org/country/IND
    https://www.transparency.org/country/ZAF
    should give you some clues.

    It is not a slur on the people to point out that a culture of corruption has captured a country. Google The Locust Effect, a really good book by people who know about this sort of thing: you would be pleased to know that colonialism gets at least a good dollop of the blame.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,261
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Ok ok I get it, some people like cricket. But i stick to my guns, cricket is not an endurance sport.

    Someone tell all those sprinters that it's only endurance sports that count, and they don't need those injections after all.
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Alejandrosdog wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Cricket has bigger cheating problems than doping.

    No joke. Unsurprisingly, the Pakistanis have a long history of bribery and match fixing as have the Indians and the South Africans.

    Why is that unsurprising? :|

    Spell it out.

    Because they have a culture of bribery. does that offend you that im subsequently not surprised to find a history of sporting fraud. Jeeeeeeeeez believe the corporate PC bile if you like.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,730
    I really don't understand where you get your sense of superiority from.
    _
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I really don't understand where you get your sense of superiority from.

    well i believe my values are superior to theirs. You clearly have non or are so weakminded you think what youre told you must think. Do you believe that corruption is an equally valid way to conduct your life and business? jokes about banking aside of course.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    Tashman wrote:
    Listening to the TMS pod this morning, Mark Wood was saying that they now use pressure plates as a part of the analysis and he's been measured putting 7 times his weight through the delivery stride. That's a lot of stress across those joints. I think as cyclists we forget how easy the sport is on the musculoskeletal system.
    Ineos's head coach Tim Kerrison was due to become England Cricket's performance coach before Brailsford nabbed him
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Pogatcha sounds like a nice bread with olives

    Cracking rider though
  • amrushton
    amrushton Posts: 1,253
    Not a great life as a swimmer

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... -alcoholic

    Also it seems some horse - Justify got a free pass after failing a drugs test (also in The Guardian)
  • narbs
    narbs Posts: 593
    amrushton wrote:
    Not a great life as a swimmer

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... -alcoholic

    Also it seems some horse - Justify got a free pass after failing a drugs test (also in The Guardian)

    Read that this morning, quite shocking.
  • narbs
    narbs Posts: 593
    SA rugby squad looking like Valleys gym boys.....

    EDzx5yeXsAEXB07?format=jpg&name=900x900
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Suspicion index has to be high, but is there any level of rippedness that can acually indicate anything other than suspicion?

    Or put another way - given professional sportsmen who have all day and top-level coaching, equipment and nutrition - not to mention motivation - can they get like this without the roids?

    That guy on the left though - arms thicker his legs?!
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Yeah, I mean, it certainly isn't inconceivable that 15 of the fittest big guys in a country (ie those that make the international rugby team) could look like that clean.

    I mean, they had strongmen long before steroids who looked pretty ripped and muscular.

    But yeah. It's hard to imagine those people also being able to maintain that level of bulk and definition while running around a rugby field on a regular basis to a world standard.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,730
    TimothyW wrote:
    Yeah, I mean, it certainly isn't inconceivable that 15 of the fittest big guys in a country (ie those that make the international rugby team) could look like that clean.

    I mean, they had strongmen long before steroids who looked pretty ripped and muscular.

    But yeah. It's hard to imagine those people also being able to maintain that level of bulk and definition while running around a rugby field on a regular basis to a world standard.

    I thought rugby had lots of rumblings of heavy PED use since it became professional, which has gone some way to explain quite how quickly the sizes of players increased?

    Not saying the case in this instance and the 'he's ripped, must be on drugs' argument is weak, but it's not like rugby has a great rep.
    _
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    But isn't Ross Tucker involved in SA rugby (albeit the sevens team)? I'm sure he would have nothing to do with doping.
  • tonyf34
    tonyf34 Posts: 194
    edited September 2019
    As an ex league guy myself the change in attitude for both codes since the late 80s/early 90s is huge, though union was supposed to be the amateur code, the reality is that union players were taking payments at least 60 years and league only went truly professional itself (as in all players not having other jobs) around the same time union decreed itself a professional sport, which was the biggest joke given everyone knew players were being paid.

    The change in training methods and time spent training is night and day to when I first started playing in the 80s, even top amateur teams are in the gym regularly, kids are identified at a very young age and will be in the gym doing weights etc at 14 (if not younger) as they'll likely already be signed up to a pro clubs youth system by that age. So probably a bit like when kids in cycling start to decide if they want to get even more serious I suppose - I know more about rugby age group stuff than cycling though so I could be miles out there.

    Also there's a significant difference between league and union, union is much more like gridiron nowadays in respect to it being a power based game, the nature of how it's played means there is a lot of stop/start and ball out of play periods.
    So there's a greater focus on power/explosive power over short periods than endurance over longer periods of play that league players train for, particularly the front five forwards and indeed the backs, because they are not covering anywhere near as much ground nor in continual play. Thus this is the result that you see in that photo, the very cream of the crop who have been going down the gym at least 3 days a week for ten years and more.
    In league they will be as lean but for most in the forwards they will be sized down muscularity wise though similar definition. In cycling terms a lot of union players are more like the sprinters and league players a bit more like the puncheurs.

    That said they've omitted the no-neck/fatties from that photo that usually frequent the front row that waddle on to the pitch and a decent belly on them, they'll crush you in a scrum, some of them will be pretty decent over 20 yards but otherwise they're there for the weight/grunt and not much more.

    Oh and testing in league at least is very regular, union per player is slightly lower (but they have more players domestically and globally) do players take stuff, is this hidden/methods used to avoid a 'situation', of course, but judging a sport on a photo is frankly ridiculous unless you actually know a bit more.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    But isn't Ross Tucker involved in SA rugby (albeit the sevens team)? I'm sure he would have nothing to do with doping.
    It would be delicious if the squad he worked with got some doping convictions.

    With rugby it's the pressure to be both big and fast, some of these guys are really really quick.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    But isn't Ross Tucker involved in SA rugby (albeit the sevens team)? I'm sure he would have nothing to do with doping.
    It would be delicious if the squad he worked with got some doping convictions.

    With rugby it's the pressure to be both big and fast, some of these guys are really really quick.
    Alan Wells was big and fast so it can be done....
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,581
    narbs wrote:
    SA rugby squad looking like Valleys gym boys.....

    EDzx5yeXsAEXB07?format=jpg&name=900x900

    It looks like it's had some Photoshopping done to me.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,581
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    But isn't Ross Tucker involved in SA rugby (albeit the sevens team)? I'm sure he would have nothing to do with doping.
    It would be delicious if the squad he worked with got some doping convictions.

    With rugby it's the pressure to be both big and fast, some of these guys are really really quick.
    Alan Wells was big and fast so it can be done....

    Big and fast is less of an issue. It's being big and having stamina that creates more alarm bells for me. Most of the team will be effectively doing an 80 minute interval session while also making and taking huge hits from 100kg of muscle crashing into them at 20mph.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 21,814
    bompington wrote:
    Suspicion index has to be high, but is there any level of rippedness that can acually indicate anything other than suspicion?

    Or put another way - given professional sportsmen who have all day and top-level coaching, equipment and nutrition - not to mention motivation - can they get like this without the roids?

    That guy on the left though - arms thicker his legs?!


    I was going to post this two weeks ago, but didn't bother.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49526533
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • cruff
    cruff Posts: 1,518
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    But isn't Ross Tucker involved in SA rugby (albeit the sevens team)? I'm sure he would have nothing to do with doping.
    It would be delicious if the squad he worked with got some doping convictions.

    With rugby it's the pressure to be both big and fast, some of these guys are really really quick.
    Alan Wells was big and fast so it can be done....
    He was also on the gear... :lol:
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    But isn't Ross Tucker involved in SA rugby (albeit the sevens team)? I'm sure he would have nothing to do with doping.
    Tucker can't see doping at SA rugby in the same way Vayer couldn't see doping at Festina
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    tonyf34 wrote:
    Also there's a significant difference between league and union, union is much more like gridiron nowadays in respect to it being a power based game, the nature of how it's played means there is a lot of stop/start and ball out of play periods.
    Now there's one for the irony thread... remind me again, which code is it where they stop for a rest every time someone gets tackled? :wink:
  • cruff
    cruff Posts: 1,518
    bompington wrote:
    tonyf34 wrote:
    Also there's a significant difference between league and union, union is much more like gridiron nowadays in respect to it being a power based game, the nature of how it's played means there is a lot of stop/start and ball out of play periods.
    Now there's one for the irony thread... remind me again, which code is it where they stop for a rest every time someone gets tackled? :wink:
    Nonsense. The ball is in play a damn sight longer in League than Union. The League game flows a lot more constantly than Union.
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,730
    Now, NFL is a sport with a governing body that puts the UCI in the ‘90s to shame.

    Though the rugby snobbishness over it is so wrong, but anyway.
    _
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    ;-)
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,470
    bompington wrote:
    tonyf34 wrote:
    Also there's a significant difference between league and union, union is much more like gridiron nowadays in respect to it being a power based game, the nature of how it's played means there is a lot of stop/start and ball out of play periods.
    Now there's one for the irony thread... remind me again, which code is it where they stop for a rest every time someone gets tackled? :wink:

    Are you referring to the 2 second play of the ball for which the defence has to retreat 10 metres, or the 5 minute scrums, mauls and lineouts?
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Theres some mince being talked in this thread.

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