Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

mfin

Because the plan was conservative. It’s funny because I say these things that are the truth and people don’t like it. They say they want the truth, you give them the truth and then they say, ‘fuck, we don’t like the truth.’ It was so conservative, risk adverse and mathematical. It was not going to be a positive test.

When something is mathematically calculated, why go 'conservative', fact is, it would not have been conservative, it would have been calculated and executed for the best possible performance gain....if it wasn't, why pay so much bloody money to someone like Ferrari? This is someone who would wind tunnel test relentlessly for every last gain out of a TT stage, but the language is supposed to make the level of doping sound sort of 'casual', I don't believe it. Again, it's more fluff just to make it sound harmless, like a bit of dabbling. This is a serious individual from what we know, not a casual one.

David and I are similar. I was a win at all costs kind of guy. David is a win at all costs kind of guy. Even if it means embellishing, tweaking. Was he right that I was doping in those years? Absolutely and hats off to him, but there were times he would have done anything to do that story. But I understand that, I was the same way. That was the world I lived for a long time.

I wonder what Walsh thinks of the comparison "I was a win at all costs kind of guy. David is a win at all costs kind of guy", I don't think Walsh is a serial liar and bully that cheated and cheated and cheated as well as pulling the wool over the eyes of a large part of the cancer community, all for his own financial gain.

.....the way he is trying to lessen the drama is quite amusing. Why doesn't he just say what he did in detail and everybody else can decide if they like him for it or not, I'm sure most people are quite clever enough to place their opinions in the context of all the others that were doping at the time. Low Octane this, Conservative that, blah blah blah blah blah.

TheBigBean

Apparently, he still didn't dope in 2009. What's the angle here? Previously I thought it was about reduced bans and the like. I'm completely discounting the possibility that it's true.

Richmond Racer

Reading this 2nd interview its apparent that these interviews are a predictable mix of outright lies, obfuscation and snippets of truth

It will always be thus as he tries to take back control of the narrative

mike6

TheBigBean wrote:

Apparently, he still didn't dope in 2009. What's the angle here? Previously I thought it was about reduced bans and the like. I'm completely discounting the possibility that it's true.

I doubt very much that a guy who was out of the sport for a few years could come back for the TDF, the toughest cycle race in the world, against the top riders in the sport, on top of there game, and finish 3d without doping. He is denying this as it is within the statute of limitations.
He was using the same team, the same doctor, the same DS, so it is not a long shot to presume he would have used the same preparation.

morstar

TheBigBean wrote:

Apparently, he still didn't dope in 2009. What's the angle here? Previously I thought it was about reduced bans and the like. I'm completely discounting the possibility that it's true.

Assuming it's a lie, I guess there's lots of reasons. Maybe the post comeback evidence is solely passport related without testimony. He can still claim to be a good rider if his 3rd place is considered clean. Maybe he's just a compulsive liar. Who knows. I guess in 2010 he was doping considerably less which contributed to the run of bad luck he experienced. More fatigued, less alert, endless crashes.

mike6

morstar wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Apparently, he still didn't dope in 2009. What's the angle here? Previously I thought it was about reduced bans and the like. I'm completely discounting the possibility that it's true.

Assuming it's a lie, I guess there's lots of reasons. Maybe the post comeback evidence is solely passport related without testimony. He can still claim to be a good rider if his 3rd place is considered clean. Maybe he's just a compulsive liar. Who knows. I guess in 2010 he was doping considerably less which contributed to the run of bad luck he experienced. More fatigued, less alert, endless crashes.

By 2010 blood transfusions were probably all you could reliably get away with. Would still help a lot though, but not nearly as much as EPO and growth hormones did in the past. There again, there is a scientific study suggesting that doping in the past can have a lasting positive effect on athletic performance.

frenchfighter

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/second- ... th-threats

A 60-year-old fan of Lance Armstrong from Utah issued a guilty plea to "interstate communications involving a threat"..."Travis Tygert [sic], Hope you have body guards and bullet proof vest, your [sic] a dead man mother f@%&*#. You just don’t know what you’ve done!!!

iainf72

mike6 wrote:

By 2010 blood transfusions were probably all you could reliably get away with. Would still help a lot though, but not nearly as much as EPO and growth hormones did in the past. There again, there is a scientific study suggesting that doping in the past can have a lasting positive effect on athletic performance.

Transfusions were really LA's secret sauce after the early 00's. But if he was doing them he'd also have been doing EPO as a masking agent in 09 / 10. If you took smaller amounts of EPO I/V you could probably get away with it fairly easily - Especially if you needed to "shower" now and then

The Kennington Kaiser

frenchfighter wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/second-armstrong-fan-pleads-guilty-to-sending-usada-head-death-threats

A 60-year-old fan of Lance Armstrong from Utah issued a guilty plea to "interstate communications involving a threat"..."Travis Tygert [sic], Hope you have body guards and bullet proof vest, your [sic] a dead man mother f@%&*#. You just don’t know what you’ve done!!!

I thought we'd not heard much from 'Dennisn' recently....

deejay

The Kennington Kaiser wrote:

I thought we'd not heard much from 'Dennisn' recently....

He must be a fit man to ride 1100 miles to make an email. :roll:

frenchfighter

Part 3
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lan ... iew-part-3

frenchfighter

Still think Lance shouldnt have had his Tour titles stripped. Pretty ridiculous. Clearly knowing what we know now about the % of riders who were doped and the real culture that was so pervasive, it is pretty fair to say that on that playing field, he rightly blew them to pieces.

Yellow Peril

At least there is an admission about Simeoni although he stops short of saying he was a Tw@t to do it.

He could still do with a little more self contrition.

frenchfighter

I was getting antagonising tweets from the UCI Overlord about what Travis was planning. How is it that the UCI Overlord knows what Travis is doing and I don’t? It all fed through Jonathan [Vaughters]. That’s not a comprehensive way to clean up the sport.

--

Regardless of what anyone thinks, I do care about the sport. I still love the sport and I still pay attention to what you guys write, what other outlets write, I still ride for fun. Despite everything, cycling has been great to me and I have a lot of appreciation for that. If I can do something to instigate the process I will.

tailwindhome

frenchfighter wrote:

Still think Lance shouldnt have had his Tour titles stripped. Pretty ridiculous. Clearly knowing what we know now about the % of riders who were doped and the real culture that was so pervasive, it is pretty fair to say that on that playing field, he rightly blew them to pieces.

The record books for those 7 years now reflect the fact that they were (nearly) all cheating.

And rightly so.

thomthom

Absolutely no reason for wada, uci or anyone else to call him. They'd get f'uck all out of it. Though, I'd like to hear Lance's reaction to a non reduction of his ban despite his collaboration.

deejay

frenchfighter wrote:

Still think Lance shouldnt have had his Tour titles stripped. Pretty ridiculous.

I do think he should have been stripped and that the USDA got the timing right for his removal.
He should have no glory for something he could not achieve by his natural performances.

That the UCI have turned a blind eye to the 1996- 2007 Team Deutsche Telekom's outlandish performances of Zabel, Ullrich, Vinokourov, Riis and the whole team is incomprehensible.
This Scum are getting away with it Scott Free but this is no reason to allow Armstrong to join them, even though he got his early lesson from them about Conconi/Michele Ferrari.

rayjay

If anyone on here really thought the Lance was clean and the rest of the peloton was clean then I am shocked by how naïve you must be. As for cheating on a monumental scale, we know most of the other teams if not all of them were doping and doing it in a much more professional way. Some of the stuff we have heard about from ex Postal staff shows how shambolic it was at times. I doubt if you will hear the same stories from Jan or Basso etc etc. People seem really offended by Lance yet are happy to say good things about other dopers who also only admitted doping when they got caught. No difference. To take away his tour wins and leave others with theirs is a joke. To give some riders six months ban including the off season and others banned for years again is a joke.
Armstrong his one hell of a rider and was the best tour rider of his generation. Who would have beaten him?
Do some of you really believe that doping alone will make you a champion? Armstrong set a new standard in training for the tour. He set a template that is followed by other teams like Sky etc etc looking at every stage down to the finest detail so there's no surprises. I don't see anyone on here feel angry with Merckx or T Simpson.
People seem to have some strange romantic affection for these guys. FACT they were doping just like Armstrong and Pantani and Ulrich and just about every other great champion you can think of.

frenchfighter

DJ. Going back to all Tours post ww2, would you want those stripped? Or last 15 or so years, should you strip 2nd place? 3rd place? 7th place? Because the reality is that the majority are tainted. They went after Lance becuase he won so many and had nasty traits. Dickheads like Hamilton are made out to be pitied rider yet he should also be hounded rather than having his pockets lined with the proceeds of his book sale. Or how about those other dopers not vilified - fact of the matter is that Lance was a better doped rider than them. I hope he is getting some bucks out of this film.

Crankbrother

European (French) revisionism ...

The history of the TdF is still about Anquitil and Hinault ... Apparently ...

Add Lemond's win against a self confessed doper (French but died of cancer?!) and Pantani's 'exciting' GT shenagins and you have one man in the middle (Indurain) ...

Both Greg and Miguel must feel relieved that the powers that be couldn't afford to keep the freezer runninf during those warm summer months ...

deejay

frenchfighter wrote:

DJ. Going back to all Tours post ww2, would you want those stripped? Or last 15 or so years, - fact of the matter is that Lance was a better doped rider than them. I hope he is getting some bucks out of this film.

Argentin, Armstrong or Deutsche Telekom couldn't be the greatest riders without the EPO concoction introduced by Francesco Conconi.
Drugs....Get Real.
Compared to EPO-PED's then I cannot argue that amphetamines/alcohol were not in use in the peloton and if Lemond or Indurain were taking them. In fact I'm not bothered who frigging took them because that was Racing and we all knew that.
I'm interested to know what the difference is with "Tramadol" and those earlier Amphetamines.

That EPO-PED's were such an advance that turned moderate riders into Supermen Performers.
Now that was ridiculous and those feats have never been performed previously.

Amphetamines have never been seen to increase performances to allow a rider to Twiddle his way up a mountain from the peloton in such easy ridiculous manner by NON-Mountain climbers who would usually get up in the Grupetto.

Yes I would strip everything from EPO performance riders and Fact of the matter is I agree that Armstrong improved the EPO method to become better doped than any other rider.

Pantani's Shenanigans (after Indurain had retired) were to do with "Guts & Determination" over a muscle bound East German trained EPO user.

deejay

Armstrong attorneys revive accusations against Novitzky
2013 November 7, 20:18, Updated: November 7, 20:22
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... t-novitzky

Armstrong's lawyers are attempting to have the Qui Tam suit dismissed, but barring that, they hope to limit the number of times he will be forced to be deposed under oath. He is facing four separate cases based upon his doping admission, and wants to consolidate the testimony into one appearance.

RichN95.

deejay wrote:

Argentin, Armstrong or Deutsche Telekom couldn't be the greatest riders without the EPO concoction introduced by Francesco Conconi.

Argentin? He was on the Giro podium in 84, won in Liege in 85 and the Worlds in 86. That's long before anyone had EPO.

frenchfighter

I agree that EPO and blood transfusions are a totally different tool yet the fact remains the playing fields were not level in either era. Yes you can admire the talents more from the past and yes you can be impressed more by the feats, both of which I am, yet they are both similarly tainted. Do I mind? I do not. I watch the sport to be entertained not pass moral judgement on the individuals.

bockers

Crankbrother wrote:

European (French) revisionism ...
Both Greg and Miguel must feel relieved that the powers that be couldn't afford to keep the freezer runninf during those warm summer months ...

There has never been any suggestion that Lemon doped. He is widely regarded as the last clean (as in epo and transfusions) tour rider. So not sure why you wnat to cast aspersions at him now?

frenchfighter

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/11/ ... pse_308916

rayjay

bockers wrote:

Crankbrother wrote:

European (French) revisionism ...
Both Greg and Miguel must feel relieved that the powers that be couldn't afford to keep the freezer runninf during those warm summer months ...

There has never been any suggestion that Lemon doped. He is widely regarded as the last clean (as in epo and transfusions) tour rider. So not sure why you wnat to cast aspersions at him now?

That does not mean he did not take something. The list of banned substances was small and PEDs were taken legally. Greg has issues with Armstrong. Armstrong took cycling to new height and Greg IMO has a touch of the green anger inside.

dougzz

Is green anger on the banned list?

deejay

RichN95 wrote:

deejay wrote:

Argentin, Armstrong or Deutsche Telekom couldn't be the greatest riders without the EPO concoction introduced by Francesco Conconi.

Argentin? He was on the Giro podium in 84 and won in Liege in 85. That's long before anyone had EPO.

1) Whoops, you got me there.
May 1993 I watched Stage 1a Giro d' Italia which he won and then had a bike ride to the "Bec CC" road race in Kent/Sussex. I told them what I had been led to believe that that was his first Giro stage win ever.
I see that my information was wrong, sorry.
2) It is well documented that Conconi had some of his concoction leading up to the World Hour record of Francesco Moser in 1984. So Moreno Argentin could well have been involved from that period onwards.

I have often wondered how EPO would have affected a real mountain climber when we have seen the effects it made to "Grupetto" type riders like Bjarne Riis & Armstrong who needed something "Big" to improve their performances.
You know the type of rider that could only shine and be noticed on a TDF transistional stage.

deejay wrote:

Compared to EPO-PED's then I cannot argue that amphetamines/alcohol were not in use in the peloton and if Lemond or Indurain were taking them. In fact I'm not bothered who frigging took them because that was Racing and we all knew that.

slowbike

DB: I watched the Oprah interview and what I want to know is whether you’re sorry you got caught or if you’re sorry for what you did?

LA: Maybe both

So - he's not really sorry that he doped to start with ... I'm sorry he feels that way - sorry for him not me. I'll be sorry for me if the UCI ever let him race again - he's been shown to be a liar and a cheat and that's not how sport should be conducted.