Vuelta Stage 3 *Spoiler*
Comments
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inkyfingers wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:FJS wrote:An exciting TdF beats an exciting Vuelta.
But an exciting Vuelta beats a dull TdF.
Exciting Tour of Poland or dull TdF?
Dull Eneco Tour or exciting Rick's Club Run?
Choices choices
I do wonder why people watch bike racing, with it being so dull most of the time...
The truth is that it is boring most of the time. However, when it's good it's very very good and makes up for the many hours spent watching them ride around in a big group, eating gels and throwing bottles into the hedge.
But that's the difference between watching 4 hours of a GT stage rather than the last hour. If you find watching riders in a big group eating gels and so on boring, then why watch it? Just tune in for the last hour or so.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:inkyfingers wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:FJS wrote:An exciting TdF beats an exciting Vuelta.
But an exciting Vuelta beats a dull TdF.
Exciting Tour of Poland or dull TdF?
Dull Eneco Tour or exciting Rick's Club Run?
Choices choices
I do wonder why people watch bike racing, with it being so dull most of the time...
The truth is that it is boring most of the time. However, when it's good it's very very good and makes up for the many hours spent watching them ride around in a big group, eating gels and throwing bottles into the hedge.
But that's the difference between watching 4 hours of a GT stage rather than the last hour. If you find watching riders in a big group eating gels and so on boring, then why watch it? Just tune in for the last hour or so.
I'm not complaining, when I can I watch the boring bits too. If you look at a GT with say 50 hours of live TV coverage it's likely that for 40 hours out of that there won't be much going on."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
"I felt good," said Alberto. "At the end, it's true that the differences were minimal, but you have to consider that there was no other climb before, and that makes people much fresher."
In spite of everything, Contador said that, at the finish, he was "happy with how I felt physically, in spite of not having done climbs in the last few weeks. I'm satisfied with the test, although it was a shame not to be able to get the stage win, but the objective is in Madrid and before starting the stage I would've okayed this result."
About his attacks, he commented that he needed "more training, but, well, I'm like a kid in a candy shop, and that's a symptom of being fresh. We've got to be optimistic for the next stages."
About what he saw in his rivals, he didn't draw any significant conclusions, because "it's still only the third stage and it takes some people a little longer to rev their engines, people who didn't have a brilliant day today, but later they'll be right up there in the general. I'm sure that riders like the ones on Euskaltel will be fighting for the victory. I'm happy with the result. My legs did great and that's what's most important."Contador is the Greatest0 -
inkyfingers wrote:I'm not complaining, when I can I watch the boring bits too. If you look at a GT with say 50 hours of live TV coverage it's likely that for 40 hours out of that there won't be much going on.
So there's the answer for all those people who find cycle racing boring, you need to cut down on how much you watch!0 -
Interesting exchange with a fan and Inner ring:jcoxbar August 21, 2012 at 10:43 am
I am a bit of a Newbie but can someone please explain why there is such eulogising of Contador’s performance yesterday (to some extent here but elsewhere on the web more strongly)? Is he not returning for his first race post-ban and thus as a proven drug cheat? Should we not be a bit more cautious in praise of his attacking style?
Reply
The Inner Ring August 21, 2012 at 10:52 am
He wasn’t caught doping. Rather he had a positive test for a banned substance but when things went to the Court of Arbitration for Sport nobody could show where it came from, some said doping, some said contaminated food or nutritional supplements.
There is a subtle difference. To illustrate the point, imagine finding a few banknotes in someone’s wallet where the numbers match those stolen from a bank robbery. It is possible the holder of the notes is the bank robber but it’d would be hard to convict because it is also possible there’s another explanation. By contrast we could convict the robber if they were caught in the act of raiding the bank.
Reply
Think Inner Ring is a secret Bertie fan?0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Interesting exchange with a fan and Inner ring:jcoxbar August 21, 2012 at 10:43 am
I am a bit of a Newbie but can someone please explain why there is such eulogising of Contador’s performance yesterday (to some extent here but elsewhere on the web more strongly)? Is he not returning for his first race post-ban and thus as a proven drug cheat? Should we not be a bit more cautious in praise of his attacking style?
Reply
The Inner Ring August 21, 2012 at 10:52 am
He wasn’t caught doping. Rather he had a positive test for a banned substance but when things went to the Court of Arbitration for Sport nobody could show where it came from, some said doping, some said contaminated food or nutritional supplements.
There is a subtle difference. To illustrate the point, imagine finding a few banknotes in someone’s wallet where the numbers match those stolen from a bank robbery. It is possible the holder of the notes is the bank robber but it’d would be hard to convict because it is also possible there’s another explanation. By contrast we could convict the robber if they were caught in the act of raiding the bank.
Reply
Think Inner Ring is a secret Bertie fan?
Nah.
Pedantic, maybe.0 -
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frenchfighter wrote:
Thanks FF. Funny that it took the commentator so long to realise Valverde had the stage although in fairness it still looks to me as though J-Rod just took it.
Interesting that Froome was staying seated during those early attacks by Contador. Was he cleverly preserving energy or too knackered to get out of the saddle? Time will tell but I've got a feeling Alberto thinks the latter. It possibly wouldn't have affected the result anyway but it seemed to me that any chance of Froome or AC taking the stage win was lost because they were more concerned with each other.0 -
Froome said he didnt feel the need to respond to the attacks and rode at his own pace.
Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
whilst Contador prefers a little more traditional 'assistance'.............
I enjoyed Contadors attacks too but I also want a clean sport. Having my cake and eating it? I genuinely struggle with this one.0 -
inseine wrote:Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
whilst Contador prefers a little more traditional 'assistance'.............
I enjoyed Contadors attacks too but I also want a clean sport. Having my cake and eating it? I genuinely struggle with this one.
I don't particularly think Froome is on the juice, BUT i wouldn't be willing to completely go along the path of saying he and everyone at Sky are clean as a whistle. They could easily just have a good front and be using a lot of reverse psychology. I honestly don't think SKY are dirty, just saying I wouldn't put my mortgage on it.0 -
inseine wrote:Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
whilst Contador prefers a little more traditional 'assistance'.............
I enjoyed Contadors attacks too but I also want a clean sport. Having my cake and eating it? I genuinely struggle with this one.
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LeicesterLad wrote:inseine wrote:Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
whilst Contador prefers a little more traditional 'assistance'.............
I enjoyed Contadors attacks too but I also want a clean sport. Having my cake and eating it? I genuinely struggle with this one.
I don't particularly think Froome is on the juice, BUT i wouldn't be willing to completely go along the path of saying he and everyone at Sky are clean as a whistle. They could easily just have a good front and be using a lot of reverse psychology. I honestly don't think SKY are dirty, just saying I wouldn't put my mortgage on it.
Dont you know that its all a conspiracy that goes right across Team Sky, the GB Track and Road set ups, the Academy squad, and the Olympic Development Programme, with Brailsford as Puppet Master. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if everyone who turns up for the Sky Rides is given a little extra something to make sure they last the distance. Why not - thats what I read on Twitter, so it must be true.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:inseine wrote:Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
whilst Contador prefers a little more traditional 'assistance'.............
I enjoyed Contadors attacks too but I also want a clean sport. Having my cake and eating it? I genuinely struggle with this one.
I don't particularly think Froome is on the juice, BUT i wouldn't be willing to completely go along the path of saying he and everyone at Sky are clean as a whistle. They could easily just have a good front and be using a lot of reverse psychology. I honestly don't think SKY are dirty, just saying I wouldn't put my mortgage on it.
Dont you know that its all a conspiracy that goes right across Team Sky, the GB Track and Road set ups, the Academy squad, and the Olympic Development Programme, with Brailsford as Puppet Master. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if everyone who turns up for the Sky Rides is given a little extra something to make sure they last the distance. Why not - thats what I read on Twitter, so it must be true.
That sort of attitude could get you burnt. It's never wise to put too much faith in a team or rider. Riders ride for teams that have managers etc etc yes, but they also have their own minds and can make their own choices.0 -
What was interesting for me on this stage was that Sky didn't adopt the same tactics here as they did on the not dissimilar stage 8 of the TdF. At the Tour they shelled almost the entire field on the Cat 1 MTF by setting a high tempo. Here it looked like they might do the same coming into the climb (and intermittently during the climb Henao or Uran did come to the front) but they either were unable to adopt such a tactic or chose not to, instead leaving Froome to follow the attacks (which he did).0
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I would 100% trade Froome on Jungle Juice over Contador Clean. Your number.
Zero to hero vs a decade of consistent Champion status.
Contador has pretty serious health problems that need to be kept in check, related to his brain. No one would mess with drugs with that hanging over them.
And with all the drug induced performances we know about and have seen you have got to be completely cuckoo to think Contador was doped yday. If so, you are clueless to what a doping performance is.
You could even use the same arguments that Wiggins used in his 'I could never dope' article on Guardian blog.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Paulie W wrote:What was interesting for me on this stage was that Sky didn't adopt the same tactics here as they did on the not dissimilar stage 8 of the TdF. At the Tour they shelled almost the entire field on the Cat 1 MTF by setting a high tempo. Here it looked like they might do the same coming into the climb (and intermittently during the climb Henao or Uran did come to the front) but they either were unable to adopt such a tactic or chose not to, instead leaving Froome to follow the attacks (which he did).
It's true. Someone else also mentioned this to me. They simply couldn't - admittedly they don't have the TT/Climber monster domestiques to sit on the front but everytime Henao or Uran tried to come to the front, they had Saxo all over them.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Another thing to note is that Contador can do that for three weeks and he can do it from much further out. Wait until he attacks from a longer distance, gaps them then taps out a tempo.Contador is the Greatest0
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LeicesterLad wrote:Interesting exchange with a fan and Inner ring:jcoxbar August 21, 2012 at 10:43 am
I am a bit of a Newbie but can someone please explain why there is such eulogising of Contador’s performance yesterday (to some extent here but elsewhere on the web more strongly)? Is he not returning for his first race post-ban and thus as a proven drug cheat? Should we not be a bit more cautious in praise of his attacking style?
Reply
The Inner Ring August 21, 2012 at 10:52 am
He wasn’t caught doping. Rather he had a positive test for a banned substance but when things went to the Court of Arbitration for Sport nobody could show where it came from, some said doping, some said contaminated food or nutritional supplements.
There is a subtle difference. To illustrate the point, imagine finding a few banknotes in someone’s wallet where the numbers match those stolen from a bank robbery. It is possible the holder of the notes is the bank robber but it’d would be hard to convict because it is also possible there’s another explanation. By contrast we could convict the robber if they were caught in the act of raiding the bank.
Reply
Think Inner Ring is a secret Bertie fan?
That Inner Ring response though is wrong. When they say 'when things went to the Court of Arbitration for Sport nobody could show where it came from' thats NOT true. The case was only ever about whether the meat fairy story was right or wrong, and hence the blood doping angles were stopped from being explored when they were introduced. Ashenden when he later gave his opinion on the blood doping angles said this, including a run down of why Bertie's plasticizer issues were not explained away at all. So blood doping was not thoroughly investigated for one, and when it was introduced into the arguments, Bertie's lawyers diverted it away on the grounds of not being what they were there to discuss basically.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Paulie W wrote:What was interesting for me on this stage was that Sky didn't adopt the same tactics here as they did on the not dissimilar stage 8 of the TdF. At the Tour they shelled almost the entire field on the Cat 1 MTF by setting a high tempo. Here it looked like they might do the same coming into the climb (and intermittently during the climb Henao or Uran did come to the front) but they either were unable to adopt such a tactic or chose not to, instead leaving Froome to follow the attacks (which he did).
It's true. Someone else also mentioned this to me. They simply couldn't - admittedly they don't have the TT/Climber monster domestiques to sit on the front but everytime Henao or Uran tried to come to the front, they had Saxo all over them.
Have read somewhere (trying to find link) that Henao got knocked by a moto which certainly wouldnt have helped. I actually thought it was interesting that Navarro seemed to blow up fairly quickly0 -
frenchfighter wrote:It's true. Someone else also mentioned this to me. They simply couldn't - admittedly they don't have the TT/Climber monster domestiques to sit on the front but everytime Henao or Uran tried to come to the front, they had Saxo all over them.
I think Henao and Uran will be more useful on the longer climbs. I was surprised that we didnt see Porte anywhere near the front at the beginning of the climb (or did I miss him?!) given his role at the TdF.0 -
Yesterday was good to watch for an early stage, no waiting for any kind of gradient here.
Can't conclude anything from it though apart from a few attacks, 6 is it? That effectively came to nothing, Four of them left, with AC still attacking, but ultimately coming last out of the 4.
Will be interesting to watch this year, although Im also one of those people who find it hard to watch 4 people like that when 2 have been banned for doping.0 -
Not sure what he's talking about there - Froome responded every time Contador attacked. Not as explosive as Bertie, J-Rod and Valv, but he clearly accelerated every time. What he did was closing the gaps at his own pace, not ride the whole climb steady at his own pace, as was the Sky watt-calculating strategy for Wiggins in the TdF. Big difference.frenchfighter wrote:Froome said he didnt feel the need to respond to the attacks and rode at his own pace.
Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Contador has pretty serious health problems that need to be kept in check, related to his brain. No one would mess with drugs with that hanging over them.
I've heard people use the same argument to defend Armstrong.0 -
mfin wrote:Yesterday was good to watch for an early stage, no waiting for any kind of gradient here.
Can't conclude anything from it though apart from a few attacks, 6 is it? That effectively came to nothing, Four of them left, with AC still attacking, but ultimately coming last out of the 4.
I think there was quite a lot to conclude from yesterday's stage - for several people the Vuelta is already over: Cobo, VDB, Quintana. No one won it but quite a few lost it.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Contador has pretty serious health problems that need to be kept in check, related to his brain. No one would mess with drugs with that hanging over them.
I've heard people use the same argument to defend Armstrong.
Just an fyi, cancer is different to issues related to the brainContador is the Greatest0 -
FJS wrote:
Not sure what he's talking about there - Froome responded every time Contador attacked. Not as explosive as Bertie, J-Rod and Valv, but he clearly accelerated every time. What he did was closing the gaps at his own pace, not ride the whole climb steady at his own pace, as was the Sky watt-calculating strategy for Wiggins in the TdF. Big difference.frenchfighter wrote:Froome said he didnt feel the need to respond to the attacks and rode at his own pace.
Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
"We have some really hard stages coming up, so today was not a stage to push too hard," Froome said later.
"I didn't see any need to close those gaps down, I was trying to control him at my own speed."
Were the exact quotes to be precise. He looked like he was going balls out to me...
Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Contador has pretty serious health problems that need to be kept in check, related to his brain. No one would mess with drugs with that hanging over them.
I've heard people use the same argument to defend Armstrong.
Just an fyi, cancer is different to issues related to the brain
As far as I remember, Armstrong had tumours removed from his brain as well. I think your argument is on a slippery slope there Frenchie."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
I wasn't questioning whether that was what he said, just saying that the way he responded to those attacks was different from the Sky-procession at steady own pace up the mountains in the TdF.frenchfighter wrote:FJS wrote:
Not sure what he's talking about there - Froome responded every time Contador attacked. Not as explosive as Bertie, J-Rod and Valv, but he clearly accelerated every time. What he did was closing the gaps at his own pace, not ride the whole climb steady at his own pace, as was the Sky watt-calculating strategy for Wiggins in the TdF. Big difference.frenchfighter wrote:Froome said he didnt feel the need to respond to the attacks and rode at his own pace.
Im sure the Sky team have had their robots going over all of Contadors performances so they can predict everything and direct Froome like a computer.
"We have some really hard stages coming up, so today was not a stage to push too hard," Froome said later.
"I didn't see any need to close those gaps down, I was trying to control him at my own speed."
Were the exact quotes to be precise. He looked like he was going balls out to me...0 -
Yep, I agree too. Was just posting them for accuracy.Contador is the Greatest0
