The official TrainerRoad thread

iglooboy

You make a good point fukawitribe. I do have a subscription to both. I'm working on some videos made with a French cycling club for use in Trainerroad but it is hard work. Zwift's workout creator is basic but still much better than Trainerroads even at this early stage. But their training programs are spot on. I just about finish each one.

Alpina007

I wonder if anyone could help? I am using TR on a Macbook and tonight for the first time I am having the following problem.

My workout refuses to start. The 5 second countdown does not appear either by cadence or pushing the start button.

All my data appears on the screen- power-cadence- hr.

I have contacted TR but they are stumped. Also tried reinsatalling the prog.

Any ideas?

krispenhartung

Has anyone been successful in using the Tacx Bushido model T1981 with TrainerRoad? I am having difficulties getting TR to recognize the trainer. My ANT+ stick is functioning fine, as TR is showing and reading my cadence sensor. As I understand it, this older model will only work with the Virtual Power feature. So in Virtual Power mode, my question is will ERG mode work? In other words, after TrainerRoad converts speed into power (using its curve calculations), can it in turn tell the Bushido to change resistance for ERG mode? If not, then I guess the trainer really doesn't have to be a Bushido at all, just a cheap trainer, since there is no bi-directional communication between TrainerRoad and the Bushido.

Vslowpace

I believe you need a smart trainer to get the erg mode.

I've always found TR support to be excellent in responding so I would recommend contacting them with any issues.

cc78

Alpina007 wrote:

I wonder if anyone could help? I am using TR on a Macbook and tonight for the first time I am having the following problem.

My workout refuses to start. The 5 second countdown does not appear either by cadence or pushing the start button.

All my data appears on the screen- power-cadence- hr.

I have contacted TR but they are stumped. Also tried reinsatalling the prog.

Any ideas?

have you got the latest version of Adobe Air?

Alpina007

cc78 wrote:

Alpina007 wrote:

I wonder if anyone could help? I am using TR on a Macbook and tonight for the first time I am having the following problem.

My workout refuses to start. The 5 second countdown does not appear either by cadence or pushing the start button.

All my data appears on the screen- power-cadence- hr.

I have contacted TR but they are stumped. Also tried reinsatalling the prog.

Any ideas?

have you got the latest version of Adobe Air?

Yes TR support got me to check that out. Im stumped

onemoresolo

krispenhartung wrote:

Has anyone been successful in using the Tacx Bushido model T1981 with TrainerRoad? I am having difficulties getting TR to recognize the trainer. My ANT+ stick is functioning fine, as TR is showing and reading my cadence sensor. As I understand it, this older model will only work with the Virtual Power feature. So in Virtual Power mode, my question is will ERG mode work? In other words, after TrainerRoad converts speed into power (using its curve calculations), can it in turn tell the Bushido to change resistance for ERG mode? If not, then I guess the trainer really doesn't have to be a Bushido at all, just a cheap trainer, since there is no bi-directional communication between TrainerRoad and the Bushido.

I believe that model of Bushido uses a proprietary Ant+ interface so TR can't communicate with the erg function. The other Bushidos do (T2xxxx). Confusing.

robu

I'm new around here, so hello, it's an excellent forum. Some advice please.

This is my second winter on Trainerroad, which I've been using in virtual power meter mode with a Cycleops Fluid 2. I'm now thinking of changing to a smart trainer. Is there any reason not to go for the Tacx Vortex, which appears to be as good as any of the other smart turbos, but considerably cheaper?

Don't know if this makes a difference, but I use Trainerroad on a MacBook laptop with a Garmin ANT+ dongle and either a Garmin or Wahoo Trackr HRM. I've got no particular need or wish to switch to an iOS or Android device.

Any advice most gratefully welcomed. Many thanks.

C_P_

i would keep the fluid 2 and by a power meter

robu

C_P_ wrote:

i would keep the fluid 2 and by a power meter

Why?

Also, the cost of upgrading if I sell the Fluid 2 and buy a Vortex will be about £100. You don't get much of a power meter for that.

colinsmith123

I used the newest version of TR today for the first time. No beeps even though switched on. A lot more drop outs, ie. workout paused when shared with Youtube and On 4 channel. But aside from that, I think I prefer the old version.

Anybody else feel the same?

C_P_

robu wrote:

C_P_ wrote:

i would keep the fluid 2 and by a power meter

Why?

Also, the cost of upgrading if I sell the Fluid 2 and buy a Vortex will be about £100. You don't get much of a power meter for that.

you will be able to train indoors and outdoors and i reckon a power meter with fluid 2 will give you accurate data not so sure you would get this with a vortex. It will cost you more but i think if you're training you will benefit more with this setup and trainer road. If you want to do virtual rides on the likes of zwift a smart trainer might be fun.

CRAIGO5000

That's what I do.

Stages power, using TrainerRoad for plans while watching Zwift to keep me from going insane. All data uploaded to Golden Cheetah for deep archive and analysis. I then take off the power meter and put it onto which ever bike I'm riding when doing outdoors riding (except my short commutes which I now don't do very fast at all as they are junk miles).

robu

C_P_ wrote:

robu wrote:

C_P_ wrote:

i would keep the fluid 2 and by a power meter

Why?

Also, the cost of upgrading if I sell the Fluid 2 and buy a Vortex will be about £100. You don't get much of a power meter for that.

you will be able to train indoors and outdoors and i reckon a power meter with fluid 2 will give you accurate data not so sure you would get this with a vortex. It will cost you more but i think if you're training you will benefit more with this setup and trainer road. If you want to do virtual rides on the likes of zwift a smart trainer might be fun.

Thanks for the advice.

I've considered power meters in the past, but wondered about their usefulness in my circumstances. I live in Cornwall on a hill (8% average; 14% outside my house) and there are no flat roads around here. I have two loops that I do regularly. The 20 mile loop has only 200m that isn't uphill or downhill. And the 40 mile loop has about half a mile of cumulative flatness in total over its entire length. Another regular route has one hill with a 30%+ gradient and two others with 20%+ for shortish bursts.

Hills here are relatively short, sharp and unpleasant, so you're either grinding or plummeting. In effect, the terrain imposes its own training intervals, so I've always thought it would be difficult to follow any kind of training programme when out on a bike, which would make a power meter a bit superfluous, wouldn't it?

Currently I do all my structured training indoors, using the Fluid 2 in virtual power meter mode with Trainerroad, and regard rides outdoors as just a way to get some fresh air, but not really suitable for following a structured training programme.

So would I really benefit from a power meter when outdoors? And if not, surely a smart turbo is just as good indoors as a power meter and in my circumstances a lot cheaper?

C_P_

If you're training to ride your local climbs you really need to know how you actually perform on them this is where the power meter comes in. Then once you know this you can work out your training plan to improve your performance. I live in the north east and also have undulating terrain like yourself with climbs that constantly change gradient, after riding with a power meter for a few months i had the data i needed for winter training on the turbo and knew what i was actually capable of on the local climbs. In the past when i trained on the turbo in winter i would get back out on the road and suffer on the climbs because i wasn't training accurately but now i'm ready for them.

nigeldoyle

And if not, surely a smart turbo is just as good indoors as a power meter and in my circumstances a lot cheaper?

Yes provided the power is accurate on the smart trainer.

I've got a Fluid 2, a 4iiii crank based power meter and recently upgraded to a Kickr snap. On the Fluid 2 the power meter is better and more accurate than virtual power. I found that it was hard to achieve high power targets with virtual power.

Now with the Kickr Snap the power the Kickr says I'm doing is way off what the power meter says. Apparently I need to do an advanced spindown on an ios device, something I don't have. Currently I'm using the power meter to control the Kickr Snap in ERG mode with Trainerroad and this works reasonably well. I now don't have to constantly monitor my power and power stays the same if I increase or decrease cadence. That said I've found ERG mode not the best for doing VO2 max intervals e.g. 120+ % of FTP. If you're struggling then you have to lower the intensity of the Trainerroad application or at the end I often want to give the last couple of intervals heaps and exceed the target. I find standard mode which turns your smart trainer into a resistance fluid type trainer works best. Also sometimes with VO2 max intervals and using a smart trainer the initial jump to the high target requires you to exceed the target before the trainer settles down at the correct power target. This can be really hard if it's say a 30 second interval at 140% of FTP where you end up having to throw say another 10% during the first 10 seconds or more.

Outside I don't use power that often unless I'm on a flat road and trying to do intervals. On undulating roads the power is all over the place and sticking to targets is hard to do. I use it more as a guide not to over do it.

Ideally you want both a power meter and a smart trainer especially if you're using something like Trainerroad.

Hope this helps.

AER_2263

colinsmith123 wrote:

I used the newest version of TR today for the first time. No beeps even though switched on. A lot more drop outs, ie. workout paused when shared with Youtube and On 4 channel. But aside from that, I think I prefer the old version.

Anybody else feel the same?

I've had the same with the new Windows application. Had lots of issues with ANT+ devices dropping out, seemed to mainly be my Garmin Cadence sensor or HRM. Only one device and can happen every minute, sometimes less frequently. The workout screen freezes up but the data is all recorded and when the device reconnects the timer catches up.

I did a full reboot of the laptop today and closed everything I didn't need - i.e. no netflix. Just had Spotify running. And this mornings workout was fine. Could be linked to the number of background processes running - that is what Support hinted at.

Most annoying thing, for me at least, with the new application is that the window won't re-size. This means I can't see all the contents of the window no matter what I do. So I can't toggle between Vertical/Horizontal modes, or god forbid increase the intensity of the workouts. This could be because my laptop doesn't have a great screen resolution but still it should auto-fit, like the old one did.

I do prefer the look of the new app but sounds like there are a few bugs to iron out...

lochindaal

I found with the new version it doesn't recognise my Garmin ANT+ stick as it is not USB2 compliant.

Have to stay with the old one

CRAIGO5000

Can we get old versions? I'm having issues with ANT sensors and my stages dropping out. Seems to be more prolific when I load up Zwift on another workstation . I then notice my power signal strength go crazy from Excellent to bad and everything in between it just cycles randomly. Both computers are running Suunto sticks on extensions about 5 inches from the bike.

adrenalnjunky

AER_2263 wrote:

colinsmith123 wrote:

I used the newest version of TR today for the first time. No beeps even though switched on. A lot more drop outs, ie. workout paused when shared with Youtube and On 4 channel. But aside from that, I think I prefer the old version.

Anybody else feel the same?

I've had the same with the new Windows application. Had lots of issues with ANT+ devices dropping out, seemed to mainly be my Garmin Cadence sensor or HRM. Only one device and can happen every minute, sometimes less frequently. The workout screen freezes up but the data is all recorded and when the device reconnects the timer catches up.

I did a full reboot of the laptop today and closed everything I didn't need - i.e. no netflix. Just had Spotify running. And this mornings workout was fine. Could be linked to the number of background processes running - that is what Support hinted at.

Most annoying thing, for me at least, with the new application is that the window won't re-size. This means I can't see all the contents of the window no matter what I do. So I can't toggle between Vertical/Horizontal modes, or god forbid increase the intensity of the workouts. This could be because my laptop doesn't have a great screen resolution but still it should auto-fit, like the old one did.

I do prefer the look of the new app but sounds like there are a few bugs to iron out...

What is your screen resolution? I'm running TR on a laptop with a 11.6" screen, 1366x768 max resolution. Before the update a few weeks ago, I could see the bottom of the workout window, but afterward, I had the issue where you can't see the bottom anymore. I'm convinced the new version just won't allow itself to be sized smaller than 800 or 900 lines horizontal. I've had a big string of emails with TR support discussing trying to resize windows and such, but none of those work.

The only ANT+ dropouts I've had were remedied by unplugging my USB dongle and reinserting it, and re-pairing manually if that didn't do the trick.

buckmulligan

adrenalnjunky wrote:

What is your screen resolution? I'm running TR on a laptop with a 11.6" screen, 1366x768 max resolution. Before the update a few weeks ago, I could see the bottom of the workout window, but afterward, I had the issue where you can't see the bottom anymore. I'm convinced the new version just won't allow itself to be sized smaller than 800 or 900 lines horizontal. I've had a big string of emails with TR support discussing trying to resize windows and such, but none of those work.

Same here, I'm running it on a crappy old Samsung network with screen resolution of 1024x600 and can't resize the window small enough height- or width-wise.

It'd be nice to see it fixed seeing as the screen layout is hardly tight for space, but I won't hold my breath because ancient devices like mine are few and far between these days...

AER_2263

What is your screen resolution? I'm running TR on a laptop with a 11.6" screen, 1366x768 max resolution. Before the update a few weeks ago, I could see the bottom of the workout window, but afterward, I had the issue where you can't see the bottom anymore. I'm convinced the new version just won't allow itself to be sized smaller than 800 or 900 lines horizontal. I've had a big string of emails with TR support discussing trying to resize windows and such, but none of those work.

The only ANT+ dropouts I've had were remedied by unplugging my USB dongle and reinserting it, and re-pairing manually if that didn't do the trick.

Same resolution as you. I've had a few emails back and forth with Support and they are trying to be helpful but their suggestions just aren't working. They've suggested doing a manual resize using ALT+Spacebar then using S and a combination of the down arrow. You are supposed to be able to "drag-up" the window but this assumes you can actually get the mouse to the base of it - I can't.

Surely this is a pretty big flaw...that is fairly easy to fix.

Not too bad for workouts <2hrs long but anything longer and I need some Netflix or YouTube. In that case its lucky I have the old version still installed.

adrenalnjunky

AER_2263 wrote:

What is your screen resolution? I'm running TR on a laptop with a 11.6" screen, 1366x768 max resolution. Before the update a few weeks ago, I could see the bottom of the workout window, but afterward, I had the issue where you can't see the bottom anymore. I'm convinced the new version just won't allow itself to be sized smaller than 800 or 900 lines horizontal. I've had a big string of emails with TR support discussing trying to resize windows and such, but none of those work.

The only ANT+ dropouts I've had were remedied by unplugging my USB dongle and reinserting it, and re-pairing manually if that didn't do the trick.

Same resolution as you. I've had a few emails back and forth with Support and they are trying to be helpful but their suggestions just aren't working. They've suggested doing a manual resize using ALT+Spacebar then using S and a combination of the down arrow. You are supposed to be able to "drag-up" the window but this assumes you can actually get the mouse to the base of it - I can't.

Surely this is a pretty big flaw...that is fairly easy to fix.

Not too bad for workouts <2hrs long but anything longer and I need some Netflix or YouTube. In that case its lucky I have the old version still installed.

Yeah - I also have an old Dell Mini9 from back when the mini laptops came out (pre-tablets), that is also 1024x600. It runs like crap, but I installed TR on it just to test my theory, and same as Buck (post above yours) it cuts off the sides a little, and more of the bottom than my 11.6" laptop does.

If they would just release their Android app, I'd just use my phone or Galaxy Tab4. Hopefully they were dragging their feet on android until after this recent release went live, and are now working on porting it over. I can understand if they weren't wanting to spend time on it before the update, but there's plenty of us non-apple folks out there that would prefer to not have to deal with a laptop all the time.

CRAIGO5000

FULLY AGREED! I fortunately have the use of my daughters pink iPad and use my Stages PM in Bluetooth to deliver Power and Cadence. I'm an Android guy though and don't own an iPhone. The soonsr I can get away from crappy ANT+ the better.

fukawitribe

CRAIGO5000 wrote:

FULLY AGREED! I fortunately have the use of my daughters pink iPad and use my Stages PM in Bluetooth to deliver Power and Cadence. I'm an Android guy though and don't own an iPhone. The soonsr I can get away from crappy ANT+ the better.

ANT+ is arguably a far superior protocol for sensors than BTLE (at least current implementations, there are some really useful bits in the BTLE specs now) but it would be good to have decent support for both. The small, but jolly nice, number of Android smart phones that support both are useful tools for this and other reasons - currently enjoying a Sony Xperia M4 Aqua which doubles rather nicely as a waterproof satnav and bike computer when having a decent size map to look at is desired, and also happens to be buttons a month for UK Virgin customers.

CRAIGO5000

But Ant protocol is useless in the home environment in comparison when compared to BLE. I've noticed severe packet loss, complete packet loss and also isn't Ant limited to 4 data packets per second? I'm not sure on the Max for BLE, but Id guess its more?

fukawitribe

CRAIGO5000 wrote:

But Ant protocol is useless in the home environment in comparison when compared to BLE. I've noticed severe packet loss, complete packet loss and also isn't Ant limited to 4 data packets per second? I'm not sure on the Max for BLE, but Id guess its more?

Signal integrity and propogation with ANT/ANT+ is typically very good although some receivers are worse than others, e.g. the Tacx ANT USB adaptor is not very good in practice i've found. Range is typically a number of metres indoors, BT is similar in my experience - neither are great in the home IMO.

No such limit on data packets - head units normally refresh at 4Hz as that's all that's needed, and the ANT+ default, but some go up to ~192Hz (theoretical protocol limit is 32kHz). Each packet can contain arbitrary data, so the limit on data is somewhat moot unless you want big bandwidth - which is not required in general for sensors. BTLE has much higher bandwidth available normally which makes sense for the applications it is intended for. BTLE networks don't support things such as multiple connections to devices (e.g. more than one app listening to an HRM or power-meter) which can be very useful, nor mesh or other non-pair networks. Latency can also be higher and transceiver sleep scheduling is error prone. Some of this is due to inherent gaps in the BTLE specs and some (now) due to current HW/SW implementations. ANT/ANT+ sensor networks also typically have far lower power requirements which has some practical consequences, e.g. it may translate into a lot less battery changes/charges in mobile devices.

Given that dual ANT/BTLE chipsets are cheap as chips, with a number of reasonably open development stacks, it is nice to have both - ANT will probably be over-taken in the future due to ubiquity but that doesn't mean it hasn't got a lot to recommend it. For now, devices with support for both are both available and desirable IMO - YMMV obviously.

Enjoy your ride whichever you use.

jgsi

Have tickets been raised with TR?
Speaking as someone who deals , well basically fckwits, who call a helpdesk to have their arses wiped, raise a TICKET!
ANT+ is de facto nothing wrong with it.. its down to you and yes,, running a mini usb stick on an extension lead is not a good idea , end of... if you are doing with no drop outs, well done you.
I ran TR for nearly 4 years with no problems... if the new app is buggy , use the old system.
Have you raised those tickets , yet?
Sorry for being a grumpy bastrd, but 8 hours on the phone dealing with dicks, you end up like this ;-)
By the way I got an excellent in customer service yesterday,, biggest laugh of my year...

adrenalnjunky

Yes, I opened a ticket. I've had a good dialogue with a representative via email for a couple of weeks now. Just there's no answer other than forwarding it back to the dev guys that the resizing idea doesn't work.

And, I worked an internet helpdesk for many years, moved up to supervisor and trust me, I know exactly how it goes. Gives me a better appreciation for anyone I ever work with when I have an issue.

markp80

I run TR on an old netbook with XP. I found I couldn't get hold of the "grab' bit at the bottom of the window and nor could I maximise it because it was off the screen top and bottom. However, when I hide the task bar, the bottom corner b comes visible and seems to resize itself. You can then make the window smaller, unhide the task bar and then maximise TR to full screen. That works with my old netbook anyway, so might be worth a try.
Cheers,
MarkP