The official TrainerRoad thread

norvernrob

JGSI wrote:

Ah, thought you had an ant+ sensor. Check on Ebay for speed or speed and cadence sensors, bit cheaper.... if you get from Hong Kong.. if their heads are clear from New year

Thanks, I ended up ordering one from Handtec as I want to get into a training plan before the better weather comes!

It does say on TR that the software can't control power on the elite turbo, I saw that. It doesn't make it clear though that it can't read anything from the turbo and that you have to use seperate sensors.

Bar Shaker

MarkP80 wrote:

8 min FTP test for me tonight, post ToS. I set a target to aim for of +10%, but it was a bit ambitious, so I faded slightly on the first interval, but held a steady level on the second and saw a 6% increase.
I have to say I'd forgotten just how horrible those tests are!
So, FTP's not back to where it was 12 months ago pre-broken leg, but it has come back to more or less where I was this time two years ago, and I'm pretty chuffed with that. I guess I've been back in proper (for me) training since the end of November, which is only 3 months (back on the bike 5 in total), so can't be too impatient!

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1711170-8-Minute-Test

I'm in the same boat as you Mark.

I first broke my leg in Mar 2014 and couldn't weight bear for 4 months. It was smashed into many pieces. The muscle wastage on my left leg was dreadful. Within 3 months of starting training again I was faster than I had ever been (but didn't do an FTP). I then broke the same leg again at the end of October.

I also had a tibial nail fitted and started training again 6 weeks ago. My FTP is already up to 214 but I am a long way from where I was in Sept last year.

With structured training and dedication, I am sure you can also be fitter than you were. I'm hoping to be close to 300 within another 6 weeks.

ExigeR

Just bought a Wahoo Kickr as i got feed up with unreliable results with my old trainer.

Did the 20min test tonight but it seems a bit high is there anyway to check the results.

I think i set everything up right and did the spin down before i started the test, the test starts in ERG and switched over to level 2 or 3 for the 5 min section and the 20min test.

jgsi

ExigeR wrote:

Just bought a Wahoo Kickr as i got feed up with unreliable results with my old trainer.

Did the 20min test tonight but it seems a bit high is there anyway to check the results.

I think i set everything up right and did the spin down before i started the test, the test starts in ERG and switched over to level 2 or 3 for the 5 min section and the 20min test.

Long thread on Slowtwitch about Kickrs drifting high with its virtual power... especially recent ones

ExigeR

Great......

Dodger747

Interesting thread, seems it could just be a software issue as the Kickr can compensate for temperature.

Can't say I've noticed drift on mine when doing FTP tests, but with my new Vectors can compare the two [Vector accuracy is another matter].

jgsi

Dodger747 wrote:

Interesting thread, seems it could just be a software issue as the Kickr can compensate for temperature.

Can't say I've noticed drift on mine when doing FTP tests, but with my new Vectors can compare the two [Vector accuracy is another matter].

I used a Tacx Flow a long time back and its power display led you up the garden path thinking why am I not elite?

anyways, interesting that you use Vectors,,, reading low or again high?
I have mixed feelings... I like them , they are consistent and then next day they play up, need re tightening.. all this 5 minutes before a road ride.
Have managed to mangle one pod that was replaced by Garmin.
Power output is very realistic at the moment - basically making the Criterium training planworkouts from Trainer Road ultra hard.
On the plus side I got them reasonably cheap from Germany so a resale on Ebay would limit the losses if I sold.
I do like the pedal system.. I dont want a crank system. or some other diy solution that hasbe reached the market yet.. I just think that the Vectors part 2 will be much better... or should be.
I dont see why Exustar cannot be commissioned to build a pedal body by Garmin that has the pod body as part of the pedal moulding. Both companies are big and ugly enough to do it proper.
This would stop the pod from being deformed and then possibly cracked as you apply the required 40Nm torque ( note the same as you would tighten up your rather more robust cassette!) The small electronic bits and battery could then be a push and lock part.

Dodger747

Only used them once on my Kickr as I was waiting for my crow foot adapter, so can't say for definite.

They seem to be slighlty lower than the Kickr, but they were consistent to each other. That's all I want from my PM - consistency [who is to say which PM is accurate or not!?].

But I am interested to see how they track the Kickr over time - I have an 'old' Kickr that doesn't seem to have the drift issues observed on the 'newer' ones, but hope to verify that with my Vectors.

jgsi

Dodger747 wrote:

Only used them once on my Kickr as I was waiting for my crow foot adapter, so can't say for definite.

They seem to be slighlty lower than the Kickr, but they were consistent to each other. That's all I want from my PM - consistency [who is to say which PM is accurate or not!?].

But I am interested to see how they track the Kickr over time - I have an 'old' Kickr that doesn't seem to have the drift issues observed on the 'newer' ones, but hope to verify that with my Vectors.

The pedal tightening is the crux of the issue with the Vectors. You need sufficient torque to stop under reading... and have been told by Garmin that you cannot over read... but you can damage the pod by over tightening.
The crowfoot imo makes it very awkward , so now have resorted to tighten by feel... I do have a nice long hefty standard pedal spanner - the Leyzyn which has 2 slots and a bottle opener to make it a proper workshop tool.
Have fun.

Eebijeebi

First try out of Infocrank. Expected a left/right leg imbalance but shocked that it borders on 40/60%. Will need to do more and varied to see if that's a constant but I'm immediately sold on the benefit of left/right reading meters and reckon that some remedial work on the left leg could make a quite a difference to my FTP.

norvernrob

After a year of cycling I did my first ever ftp test today. I thought I paced it ok, the two efforts were pretty much identical anyway. Happy with 2.88w/kg, I went out for a 6k run on Wed and my quads were getting sore during the test but I don't honestly think it made any difference. My aim for this year is just to keep improving, I would be mega happy with 3.5w/kg by the end of the summer.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/norvernrob

markp80

Bar Shaker wrote:

MarkP80 wrote:

So, FTP's not back to where it was 12 months ago pre-broken leg, but it has come back to more or less where I was this time two years ago, and I'm pretty chuffed with that.

I'm in the same boat as you Mark.

I first broke my leg in Mar 2014 and couldn't weight bear for 4 months. It was smashed into many pieces. The muscle wastage on my left leg was dreadful. Within 3 months of starting training again I was faster than I had ever been (but didn't do an FTP). I then broke the same leg again at the end of October.

I also had a tibial nail fitted and started training again 6 weeks ago. My FTP is already up to 214 but I am a long way from where I was in Sept last year.

With structured training and dedication, I am sure you can also be fitter than you were. I'm hoping to be close to 300 within another 6 weeks.

Ouch, that sounds nasty! Sounds like you've made a good recovery though, which only comes from putting the work in. I too have one leg that now looks like a pipe cleaner, but it is improving, albeit slowly.
It's good to hear about someone else's recovery from a similar injury, thanks for your post and encouragement!
Cheers,
MarkP

norvernrob

I'm going to start the 8 week low volume 'sustained power build' course next week. I've been on the turbo and getting out over the winter so should have a reasonable base to start. With the hilly rides I do it seems the ideal plan for me building up through the spring.

mindanalyzer

I started using TR on Feb 1 (8 min test suggested FTP of 216) doing the TR workouts on Mon, Wed and Fri. I have been able to complete all the scheduled workouts for base phase low volume 1 (3.5h) (skipped one and didn't finish one due to time considerations). I did the sufferfest Rookie yesterday and it was pretty challenging, ending it with a NP of 192 and IF of 0.89 (it felt close to 1.0). I was thinking about it and holding 216 watts for 1 hour seems very difficult, not to say far-fetched, or maybe it is all in my mind. I am using a Quarq PW (2014 Riken)

I am also riding with a group TUE & THU about 60-80 miles a week [and will add SAT as soon as my FTP allow me to keep up (being decent at least) with this super fast group; meanwhile I am doing other TR workouts (some from sufferfest or solo rides] on SAT or SUN; During these TUE & THU group rides my NP is in the range of 180-190 watts with a TSS 110-130; so you would understand that I always have a hard time at the beginning of the TR workouts (legs pretty shot from previous day). Ah, I am 43, 175lbs. All in all my weekly TSS is about 500-550.

Questions
1. Could the suggested FTP be overrated? How do i know that?

2. I know that speed is not so relevant in these type of workouts (power is the deal here) but when I upload the files to strava to keep track of my total miles the speed average is pretty low (17mph yesterday in the rookie workout). I checked the tire circumference value and I entered it exactly as shown in my Garmin 500 (set to Auto mode). I am using a duotrap speed/cadence sensor (Yes, I ride a Trek madone)

3. The heart rate zones are not so important here either (it is all about powa :roll: ) but I sent an email to TR so that maybe they could incorporate some more accurate calculation, such as the karvonen formula, to estimate the heart rate zones (takes into account real max and resting heart rate)-> these 2 parameters would be entered by user. It looks like they are currently using the notorious 220 - age estimate

4. I am aiming at bringing my FTP to 250 by August. Is this realistic?

5. Any extra advice?

my TR:
http://www.trainerroad.com/career/eeliass

fukawitribe

mindanalyzer wrote:

I started using TR on Feb 1 (8 min test suggested FTP of 216) doing the TR workouts on Mon, Wed and Fri.
..
I am also riding with a group TUE & THU about 60-80 miles a week [and will add SAT as soon as my FTP allow me to keep up (being decent at least) with this super fast group; meanwhile I am doing other TR workouts (some from sufferfest or solo rides] on SAT or SUN;
...
All in all my weekly TSS is about 500-550.

Questions
....
5. Any extra advice?

Whilst i'm not a professional trainer or anything remotely like that, I would say that it sounds like you're not leaving your body much time to recover. Without knowing more (such as your fitness, training background, if this schedule is temporary or a smaller part of larger plan) i'd guess that there's a chance your progress is going to be rather compromised if you don't leave it much time to rebuild and keep ramping up the training stress. There are apparently some benefit to continually block train, but possibly not in the direction you want...

http://blog.trainerroad.com/training-twice-day/

This is the one I try to keep in mind when wondering what to do...

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/07 ... sity_59521

Please tell me to STFU if you know what you're doing and this is all Grandmother egg quaffing !

cougie

That DOES sound a lot.

The TR plans are designed to be your only training arent they ? Or does this one say fill in the gaps with extra rides ?

Dont forget recovery is a massive part of your training.

It might be worth tracking your Resting Heart Rate to make sure you are recovering.

jgsi

cougie wrote:

That DOES sound a lot.

The TR plans are designed to be your only training arent they ? Or does this one say fill in the gaps with extra rides ?

Dont forget recovery is a massive part of your training.

It might be worth tracking your Resting Heart Rate to make sure you are recovering.

I am doing the low Criterium plan which really suits at this time of year. You can surround the actual workouts with other rides should you wish, but you have to be common sensical about it.

My only concern about the OP is the lack of real recovery and I know that a constant stream of weeks with TSS 500 or more will just put me on the back burner. Over winter thats not a concern as such as long as you stay hhealthy. As soon as you start planning key races or events then you really have to factor in some lesser weeks for the greater good.
This seasons training started last October.. thats where the money in the bank was made in terms of fitness and preparation.. if you are making base at this point in the year, you are already in catch up mode and probably too late unless you have one specific peak in August... but thats like marathon runners.. the one race a year all or nothing... cycling is different thank the Lord.

markp80

NorvernRob wrote:

I'm going to start the 8 week low volume 'sustained power build' course next week. I've been on the turbo and getting out over the winter so should have a reasonable base to start. With the hilly rides I do it seems the ideal plan for me building up through the spring.

I'd be interested to know what you think of this. I completed the old Intermediate Base 1 recently and moved on to this same plan (Sustained Power Build - Low vol).
I've found the workouts quite a step up from the Base workouts. There's lots of over-unders and VO2 max work, and the workouts generally seem to have an IF in the 0.85-0.95 region, so I find it hard work (Avalanche Spire, Fang Mountain etc). But then I'm building towards the evening time trial league, so I suppose it should be!

Cheers,
MarkP

jgsi

Well, that was a beast of a workout...
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... our-de-Nez
Nearly got to the end.. but now have 48 hours to fully recover before a hilly TT on Sunday.

Dodger747

Ouch - might give that one a try in a week or so!

Eebijeebi

JGSI wrote:

Well, that was a beast of a workout...
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... our-de-Nez
Nearly got to the end.. but now have 48 hours to fully recover before a hilly TT on Sunday.

Looks like a tough one. May I ask your age? Would like to relate it to the HR - no worries if too personal.

jgsi

Eebijeebi wrote:

JGSI wrote:

Well, that was a beast of a workout...
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... our-de-Nez
Nearly got to the end.. but now have 48 hours to fully recover before a hilly TT on Sunday.

Looks like a tough one. May I ask your age? Would like to relate it to the HR - no worries if too personal.

You may... I'm the youngest..
in Category E LVRC/TLI ;-) 60

Eebijeebi

JGSI wrote:

Eebijeebi wrote:

JGSI wrote:

Well, that was a beast of a workout...
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... our-de-Nez
Nearly got to the end.. but now have 48 hours to fully recover before a hilly TT on Sunday.

Looks like a tough one. May I ask your age? Would like to relate it to the HR - no worries if too personal.

You may... I'm the youngest..
in Category E LVRC/TLI ;-) 60

Thanks, that gives me an idea of where I am as well as something to aim for.

norvernrob

MarkP80 wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

I'm going to start the 8 week low volume 'sustained power build' course next week. I've been on the turbo and getting out over the winter so should have a reasonable base to start. With the hilly rides I do it seems the ideal plan for me building up through the spring.

I'd be interested to know what you think of this. I completed the old Intermediate Base 1 recently and moved on to this same plan (Sustained Power Build - Low vol).
I've found the workouts quite a step up from the Base workouts. There's lots of over-unders and VO2 max work, and the workouts generally seem to have an IF in the 0.85-0.95 region, so I find it hard work (Avalanche Spire, Fang Mountain etc). But then I'm building towards the evening time trial league, so I suppose it should be!

Cheers,
MarkP

I only started it this week, I had a rest last week as I wasn't feeling right.

I did Matanuska yesterday, a 2hr workout which I found quite mentally tough even though I was watching a film on Netflix (there's no way I could do that time without something to look at). I was pretty tired by the end too, and whilst I didn't find the intervals that hard the relentlessness took its toll.

It's Avalanche Spire tomorrow, I don't want to do the 2hr sessions on Fridays and not be recovered for a Sunday ride.

Eebijeebi

Am at the end of the mid volume sustained power and have found it excellent, in fact the whole TR thing is excellent. Took longer than 8 weeks what with family stuff and road rides but am going to do it again, and this time throw in the odd big power intervals ride for 'fun'.
Only found TR through this thread, so thanks to whoever kicked it off.

matt-h

Eebijeebi wrote:

Am at the end of the mid volume sustained power and have found it excellent, in fact the whole TR thing is excellent. Took longer than 8 weeks what with family stuff and road rides but am going to do it again, and this time throw in the odd big power intervals ride for 'fun'.
Only found TR through this thread, so thanks to whoever kicked it off.

I'm doing the low volume sustained power and it compliments my weekly chaingang and Sunday club ride a lot.
I've seen such an improvement i'm going to enter my first race next month.
Hands down the best money i have spent on cycling

Matt

robklancs

I have the elite force mag elastogel.

6 weeks ago I selected the beta version of this turbo in the drop down menu. Did the 8 minute test and I had an FTP of 135, which I knew was too low but stuck with it as it was consistent. I can ride a flat 40 mile at 21.5mph avg (flat out) on a road bike. Did the 6 week traditional sweet spot base and then today did the 20 minute test.

For this test, and I know I shouldn't have, I changed the trainer from the beta to the standard settings, on setting 1 as it was there previously.

Today my FTP was 354.

So now I am stuck, do I plug on thinking I'm elite standard off this new FTP or re test on the old settings.

Any suggestions of what my power might be (75kg)? 7.2 kg bike.

sloppyschleckonds

robklancs wrote:

Did the 8 minute test and I had an FTP of 135, which I knew was too low but stuck with it as it was consistent.

For this test, and I know I shouldn't have, I changed the trainer from the beta to the standard settings, on setting 1 as it was there previously.

Today my FTP was 354.

LOL

fukawitribe

robklancs wrote:

..
I can ride a flat 40 mile at 21.5mph avg (flat out) on a road bike. Did the 6 week traditional sweet spot base and then today did the 20 minute test.
...
Any suggestions of what my power might be (75kg)? 7.2 kg bike.

That sort of speed, in the drops, level ground, no wind, loads of assumptions etc might equate to something around 220W *, and that's over nearly two hours - so i'd expect your FTP to be significantly higher than your first reading. As to what it is in reality, no idea alas.

* e.g. http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

robklancs

Cheers for that. That's a helpful link. The strava power estimation suggest 221 estimated, I didn't know how accurate that was.

It just made me laugh that there could be such a difference on the same trainer. Although it would be nice to know what power I can produce I am not too worried about it. With virtual power I guess consistency is the most important thing.

Does anyone else use this trainer, if so which one do you find most reliable in the trainer choice selection.
It's the cheap halfords elite force elastogel.