The official TrainerRoad thread

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  • Dodger747
    Dodger747 Posts: 305
    danridesbikes wrote:
    why the constant decline on the first one?

    id retake the test, a lot of the "gains" people post are due to learning how to test better,

    First 4 minutes were pretty steady - felt I wouldn't last till the end, so backed off for around 2 minutes and then picked it up for the final two minutes. Second set I tried a higher cadence in a lower gear and then dropped a couple of gears for the standing bits.

    I'm fine with my test - done a lot of them in my 9.5 years since I took up cycling. Power is power, it's hard to 'game' for a test - it either exists or it doesn't.
    VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
    W/kg - 4.9
  • Eebijeebi
    Eebijeebi Posts: 91
    shazzz wrote:
    JGSI wrote:
    Eebijeebi wrote:
    Been using TR since the new year and love it and the improvements I'm making.
    The thing is that I can't actually imagine being able to do a whole hour at my FTP. Am I right that that in theory I should be able to do that? I'd give it a try but it smacks of incredible agonies!

    Yes, it would hurt.
    Realistically, doing a 25 TT is the best of proving to yourself of your threshold. The power of a pinned number.
    Not forgetting though that the magical FTP changes from day to day depending on other factors that affect you.

    Try doing a workout like Leconte - this gives you 6x10 minute threshold intervals in the space of 75 minutes (with 15 mins of warm up / cool down either side). When I did it, I aimed to get the average power for each 10 min interval at or slightly above my FTP. This was hard but really quite doable and seems a good cross check that my FTP is in the right ball park.

    Sounds like a bit of a rascal! Will have a look at dropping that in my program (sustained build). Cheers.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Sounds well named !

    Its 60 minutes of intensity in a 90 minute session - I did think 60 in a 75 min session was pushing it !

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/work ... 6-leconte-
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    These newer training plans seem quite a fit and a definite improvement on what has been offered so far in Trainer Road which has been too generalistic for my purposes.
    I'm giving this a go as specifically my races end up being crit like even when they are not supposed to be.
    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plan ... low-volume

    The other days are when I fit in basic 50TSS rides and a hard club (reliability) training ride at the weekend.
  • robgod
    robgod Posts: 39
    Got my kit this week, so signed up for TR and did my first session with the 20 minute test. God, it was hard - but I did it. A regular cadence of just over 100 in 8th gear (little ring), and a mid-setting on my trainer. Then BAM, an embarrassingly low FTP (110). Which means I either did'nt try hard enough or I'm simply too old for this s**t ! I'm 45 yrs old and did a 10mile TT in 29 minutes last summer which I thought was OK for my age etc. But when I see people hitting well over 200 FTP, its really denting my confidence.
    Can anyone give me some words of comfort and assure me that 110 isnt the end of my cycling life?
    Thanks.
    Rob
  • fukawitribe
    fukawitribe Posts: 109
    robgod wrote:
    Got my kit this week, so signed up for TR and did my first session with the 20 minute test. God, it was hard - but I did it. A regular cadence of just over 100 in 8th gear (little ring), and a mid-setting on my trainer. Then BAM, an embarrassingly low FTP (110). Which means I either did'nt try hard enough or I'm simply too old for this s**t ! I'm 45 yrs old and did a 10mile TT in 29 minutes last summer which I thought was OK for my age etc. But when I see people hitting well over 200 FTP, its really denting my confidence.
    Can anyone give me some words of comfort and assure me that 110 isnt the end of my cycling life?
    Thanks.
    Rob

    At a guess i'd say there's something up with the trainer setup. If you can do a 10 mile TT in under half an hour, then i'd expect your FTP to be much higher (nearly double in fact). 30km/h for a ~72kg rider + 9 kg bike, level ground, no wind etc etc is about 200W (see attached picture for more details), and you managed roughly that for 29 mins so i'd expect you to be at least that for a 20 minute test. Any info about your trainer, setup, trainer profile from TR etc ?
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    robgod wrote:
    Got my kit this week, so signed up for TR and did my first session with the 20 minute test. God, it was hard - but I did it. A regular cadence of just over 100 in 8th gear (little ring), and a mid-setting on my trainer. Then BAM, an embarrassingly low FTP (110). Which means I either did'nt try hard enough or I'm simply too old for this s**t ! I'm 45 yrs old and did a 10mile TT in 29 minutes last summer which I thought was OK for my age etc. But when I see people hitting well over 200 FTP, its really denting my confidence.
    Can anyone give me some words of comfort and assure me that 110 isnt the end of my cycling life?
    Thanks.
    Rob

    I think you just need to double check those turbo settings as you are using Virtual Power.
    Knocking out around 100 watts is not really breaking a sweat and by that heart rate trace (very useful to verify workouts) you were indeed breaking a sweat.
    That drop down list in the app of accredited turbo trainers is long and a bit hard to navigate.
    If you dont get the right one with the right setting you are using, you will get false readings as regards power.
    Comforted?
  • robgod
    robgod Posts: 39
    fukawitribe wrote:
    If you can do a 10 mile TT in under half an hour, then i'd expect your FTP to be much higher (nearly double in fact).

    Well, thats encouraging! Thanks! (Although its been many years since I was 72kg!!) :)

    So, just to confirm, its a Minoura trainer, and the model is in the list on Trainer Road. Its a variable friction lever, so I guess its possible thats giving me the wrong friction level, but otherwise I dont really know what could be wrong. I'll check it again when I get home though and post my TR data too.

    My Heart Rate was hovering around 170 - I think my max is about 185 but could never maintain that for 20 minutes.
    Oh, and although the 10 mile TT wasn't officially timed, it was an official route....not 10 miles down a hill! :D

    Thanks for your words of reassurance though. I guess at the end of the day, its all relative so no matter what it says my FTP is, as long as its consistant, it will still give me a good workout.
  • gcwebbyuk
    gcwebbyuk Posts: 1,926
    Did you have TrainerRoad set to match the same resistance setting on the minoura. For instance, I have my Tacx Booster set to resistance level 2, so select Tacx Booster 2 from the devices drop down.
    StumpJumper HT

    Canyon Endurace CF8.0

    TrainerRoad Career

    Strava
  • Bar Shaker
    Bar Shaker Posts: 2,313
    I am now using my turbo on level 5 (it's only an Elite elastogel mag) as the cable has stretched and the middle resistances will not agree with what TR is expecting.

    I have re-done my FTP at this setting (now 214 and only been riding again since Christmas, so pleased) and am using this for all workouts.

    I would estimate that the cable stretch probably accounts for making the resistance a full step harder than what my TR map would indicate and this may be the same with your TACX.
    Boardman Elite SLR 9.2S
    Boardman FS Pro
  • robgod
    robgod Posts: 39
    Ah, just checked my profile, and the resistance level was still on level 0. So that would explain it. Clearly it hadn't saved my selection. Is it possible to correct the level retrospectively? I'll be doing a test again but id prefer my history to be right if possible.

    Thanks
    Rob
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    robgod wrote:
    Ah, just checked my profile, and the resistance level was still on level 0. So that would explain it. Clearly it hadn't saved my selection. Is it possible to correct the level retrospectively? I'll be doing a test again but id prefer my history to be right if possible.

    Thanks
    Rob
    Just retest. You can exclude workouts from data charts anyway or delete.
  • Gixermark
    Gixermark Posts: 68
    I have a similar issue with my set up... I changed turbo's and now with my 'new' turno Tacx satori I have it set on level 4 and us ethe satori 4 in the drop down...

    I had used the previous turbo on my initial test and got an FTP of 198 a couple of months back which I was ok with.... but now even efforts of 120W (indicated are REALLY tough)

    I now have a turbo tyre too.

    I have sent TR an e-mail a few days ago - and gave them data of output speeds (at same cadence) in 1st to 6th gear.. using the satori 4 and satori 8 drop down options.... I rarely if ever go above 16mph on the turbo - and am thinking part of the issue is I might be clamping the tyre too tight... I also never use the big ring - in fact probably only 1st to 5th

    do you guys find you use the full range of gears ?
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Gixermark wrote:
    I have a similar issue with my set up... I changed turbo's and now with my 'new' turno Tacx satori I have it set on level 4 and us ethe satori 4 in the drop down...

    I had used the previous turbo on my initial test and got an FTP of 198 a couple of months back which I was ok with.... but now even efforts of 120W (indicated are REALLY tough)

    I now have a turbo tyre too.

    I have sent TR an e-mail a few days ago - and gave them data of output speeds (at same cadence) in 1st to 6th gear.. using the satori 4 and satori 8 drop down options.... I rarely if ever go above 16mph on the turbo - and am thinking part of the issue is I might be clamping the tyre too tight... I also never use the big ring - in fact probably only 1st to 5th

    do you guys find you use the full range of gears ?

    I use the Satori also... 4 years or so now but now in conjunction with a power meter.
    Using resistance 4 and finding it tough to get in control sounds like a physical issue to me.
    You cant really clamp the back wheel too tight but just double check that.
    Locking the clamp on the Satori so that it is solid and doesnt rock on the quick release.
    The tyre.
    I only use old road tyres.. well worn and smooth.. these make the action quiet.
    Not saying its the the turbo tyre but it could be a reason.
    Tyre pressure on the turbo roller... this just needs to be gripping the tyre so that it doesnt slip.
    There is no need to over force so that it squashes the tyre for example.
  • robgod
    robgod Posts: 39
    JGSI wrote:
    robgod wrote:
    Ah, just checked my profile, and the resistance level was still on level 0. So that would explain it. Clearly it hadn't saved my selection. Is it possible to correct the level retrospectively? I'll be doing a test again but id prefer my history to be right if possible.

    Thanks
    Rob
    Just retest. You can exclude workouts from data charts anyway or delete.

    Checked all my settings and started the 8 minute test. Warmed up and hitting 200ftp..good so far. Set off a bit too hard in the first 8 minute session but settled into a rhythm. Exactly 4 minutes into the second 8 minute push.....my PC shuts down without warning and starts doing windows updates. AAARRGGGHHH!
  • Gixermark
    Gixermark Posts: 68
    thanks... I ended up with the turbo set on resitance 4 but the TR setting 6 to see if it all looks more sensible... I also adjusted the camp - as I think I was really clamping into the tyre.

    I can now at least use more range of gears... and the speed overall looks more sensible.

    I guess its the problem of changing turbo/tyres etc etc....... but from my initial test back in NOv/Dec showing an FTP of 198, its now showing 172....

    just need to tell myself to forget about the numbers... and crack on

    JGSI wrote:
    Gixermark wrote:
    I have a similar issue with my set up... I changed turbo's and now with my 'new' turno Tacx satori I have it set on level 4 and us ethe satori 4 in the drop down...

    I had used the previous turbo on my initial test and got an FTP of 198 a couple of months back which I was ok with.... but now even efforts of 120W (indicated are REALLY tough)

    I now have a turbo tyre too.

    I have sent TR an e-mail a few days ago - and gave them data of output speeds (at same cadence) in 1st to 6th gear.. using the satori 4 and satori 8 drop down options.... I rarely if ever go above 16mph on the turbo - and am thinking part of the issue is I might be clamping the tyre too tight... I also never use the big ring - in fact probably only 1st to 5th

    do you guys find you use the full range of gears ?

    I use the Satori also... 4 years or so now but now in conjunction with a power meter.
    Using resistance 4 and finding it tough to get in control sounds like a physical issue to me.
    You cant really clamp the back wheel too tight but just double check that.
    Locking the clamp on the Satori so that it is solid and doesnt rock on the quick release.
    The tyre.
    I only use old road tyres.. well worn and smooth.. these make the action quiet.
    Not saying its the the turbo tyre but it could be a reason.
    Tyre pressure on the turbo roller... this just needs to be gripping the tyre so that it doesnt slip.
    There is no need to over force so that it squashes the tyre for example.
  • markp80
    markp80 Posts: 444
    8 min FTP test for me tonight, post ToS. I set a target to aim for of +10%, but it was a bit ambitious, so I faded slightly on the first interval, but held a steady level on the second and saw a 6% increase.
    I have to say I'd forgotten just how horrible those tests are!
    So, FTP's not back to where it was 12 months ago pre-broken leg, but it has come back to more or less where I was this time two years ago, and I'm pretty chuffed with that. I guess I've been back in proper (for me) training since the end of November, which is only 3 months (back on the bike 5 in total), so can't be too impatient! :D

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1711170-8-Minute-Test
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • Bluejay87
    Bluejay87 Posts: 2
    I'm just starting to use trainerroad regularly. This is the ftp test I did back in December:

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    My pacing was pretty choppy so not sure if that test is valid?
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Bluejay87 wrote:
    I'm just starting to use trainerroad regularly. This is the ftp test I did back in December:

    http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/ride ... inute-Test

    My pacing was pretty choppy so not sure if that test is valid?

    I do like my TR, but it is also a an excellent business model... new riders are eminently pleased with their ROI,as their ftp increases as a result of getting better at testing ;-) (for a while anyways)
  • Dodger747
    Dodger747 Posts: 305
    Or actually getting fitter...
    VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
    W/kg - 4.9
  • Bluejay87
    Bluejay87 Posts: 2
    Yeah well I've had about a month off the bike since setting that FTP, but in the past two weeks I've been training reasonably consistently so probably back where I started now. Did a few TR workouts which were somewhat challenging but never in doubt of finishing. Not really sure if they were too easy and my FTP should be higher or not.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Next version of the desktop app should include, as in ios version, TSS and IF scores as the workout progresses.
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,448
    Is anyone using TR with the iOS app and an Elite turbo? Ive just signed up and have had a quick go at pairing it up but something is obviously wrong.

    I have an Elite qubo digital turbo and have selected it from the virtual power menu. When TR searches for Ant+ devices it lists just one, but it shows it as a speed/cadence sensor. That has to be the turbo as I don't have anything else Ant+. I've paired it up and started a program just to test it, but it's showing 0 power and cadence in the thousands.

    I want to do an FTP test tomorrow but obviously can't until I sort out what's wrong, anyone got any ideas?

    Thanks! :D
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Have you ticked 'Virtual Power On' ?
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,448
    Yes, you have to have virtual power on to select the turbo. I've just tried the Elite app with the Ant+ dongle, that paired up with the turbo no problems too and the power/cadence readings were fine.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    You can only have 1 app that uses the dongle at one time... when using TR, make sure that your Elite app is fully shutdown... best to remove the dongle and then replace to be on the safe side.
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,448
    JGSI wrote:
    You can only have 1 app that uses the dongle at one time... when using TR, make sure that your Elite app is fully shutdown... best to remove the dongle and then replace to be on the safe side.

    I had never used the Elite app before tonight, I only got the Ant dongle yesterday. TR paired with the turbo fine but the readings are totally out, power reading 0 and cadence in the thousands. I only tried the Elite app after, just to see if everything was working ok and it was, so I know it's something to do with the TR app and the information it's reading from the turbo.

    I'll have another fiddle with it in the morning and if no joy I'll email TR support. Virtual power is on (it has to be to select the turbo model), selected turbo is correct, it pairs up ok so I'm not sure what else to try.
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,448
    I got a reply from TR. Apparently the TR software can't connect to the electronic Elite Ant+ trainers, so I need to buy an Ant+ speed sensor as well as the dongle if I want to use it. Obviously I misunderstood somewhere along the line. Slightly annoyed its going to end up costing me about 80 quid in accessories when all the information including pretty accurate power is already being sent out by the turbo! It's just a shame the elite head unit isn't programmable into custom programs like the app is.

    The TR support were surprised when I sent them screenshots of the software paired to my turbo though as they'd just told me it wasn't possible.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Ah, thought you had an ant+ sensor. Check on Ebay for speed or speed and cadence sensors, bit cheaper.... if you get from Hong Kong.. if their heads are clear from New year
  • Eebijeebi
    Eebijeebi Posts: 91
    Had Infocrank (by Verve Cycling) fitted today to replace my Powertap. Has left/right readings which should make the drills in some of the workouts more meaningful, and met Magnus Backstedt to boot.
    At last can have a wheel just for the trainer and not have to keep swapping tyres.
    Will also be interesting to see if my next session 'seems' any different re possible variation.

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