The official TrainerRoad thread
Comments
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markhewitt1978 wrote:
Is there an advantage of using the PC app instead of iPhone. As I could set up a turbo next to my wifes PC, although it would mean me looking to my right all the time
As I see it there are several advantages of using a PC over IPhone... firstly the size of the screen... this leads into a better graphic display.... I find this helps post exercise to "view on line" and look at your data immediately... being able to log into "Netflix" etc for those longer sessions... I can load CD's/films I don't have on "I-tunes".... but like anything it's what works for you.... I use an old Dell Laptop (low spec)... it works for what I want.... entertainment while training.... an immediate display of data post exercise... I can look at the Strava files later...
Uunfortunately when I want to run "Zwift" I have to use another laptop as the Dell hasn't got the capabilities... I have set mine up on an angle so I can view it comfortably...
Hope this helps....0 -
[quote="Fenix
Your VO2 max is 79 ? Blimey. That sounds very high - are you an elite ?[/quote]
Nope - don't really have the time to race anymore. My V02 is quite high due to my light weight - even at the start of a test it's in the 40s-50s [iirc].
But there is an awful lot more to racing than numbers alone - it was interesting doing it as part of a scientific study - but not very useful in terms of training...VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
W/kg - 4.90 -
Has anyone used TR for alpine sportive training, and if so, did it give appreciable results?
My usual prep for these sort of rides are long hilly rides once a week building up to about 150 miles, with a couple of indoor interval sessions midweek and a tempo mid distance ride. Usually for a minimum of 3 months before the event. I've usually done ok, but I'm always interested in trying something else, especially if it's more time efficient or can raise the bar a little higher.
I've not trained for an Alpine Sportive - but the good thing about TR is that you can see improvements week by week. You have certain sessions that repeat so you can see that for the same power level - or higher - your HR is going down. So that will certainly help. Its certainly helped me race better. At the start of training I'm level with my training partner who doesnt turbo. A month or two later and I'm leaving him for dead pretty easily.0 -
Quick trainnerroad question?Noticed that the software has an option to "use power meter to control electronic trainer". Does this mean that if I fit my vector pedals to my bike on my Powerbeam turbo and tell it I want to ride at x watts, it will take the data from the pedals and adjust the resistance accordingly rather than taking the power figure from the powerbeam? Because that would be awesome...
Yep, exactly. It's called PowerMatch, you can check it out here: PowerMatch: Using Power Meters with Electronic Trainers0 -
Quick trainnerroad question?Noticed that the software has an option to "use power meter to control electronic trainer". Does this mean that if I fit my vector pedals to my bike on my Powerbeam turbo and tell it I want to ride at x watts, it will take the data from the pedals and adjust the resistance accordingly rather than taking the power figure from the powerbeam? Because that would be awesome...
Yep, exactly. It's called PowerMatch, you can check it out here: http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/204631294-Electronic-Trainers-Power-Meters-PowerMatch-
Cheers, just been out in the garage trying it out as it happens! Slightly less awesome than I imagined, seemed to be some problems with calibration so sections that were supposed to be 200 watts felt well over 300 which was a tad painful. Stopped halfway through and redid the zero offset and it seemed better afterwards, putting it down to user error and hoping I've got it sussed now...
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Quick trainnerroad question?Noticed that the software has an option to "use power meter to control electronic trainer". Does this mean that if I fit my vector pedals to my bike on my Powerbeam turbo and tell it I want to ride at x watts, it will take the data from the pedals and adjust the resistance accordingly rather than taking the power figure from the powerbeam? Because that would be awesome...
Yep, exactly. It's called PowerMatch, you can check it out here: http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/204631294-Electronic-Trainers-Power-Meters-PowerMatch-
Cheers, just been out in the garage trying it out as it happens! Slightly less awesome than I imagined, seemed to be some problems with calibration so sections that were supposed to be 200 watts felt well over 300 which was a tad painful. Stopped halfway through and redid the zero offset and it seemed better afterwards, putting it down to user error and hoping I've got it sussed now...
Okay, if it gives you anymore trouble, please shoot us an email to support@trainerroad.com. I'd hate for there to be any shortage of awesome
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Windows10 and TR, anyone?0
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Windows10 and TR, anyone?
It works great 0 -
Windows10 and TR, anyone?
It works great
Thank you... might even do the free up bit now... after I find out about Golden Cheetah ...0 -
Windows10 and TR, anyone?
It works great
Thank you... might even do the free up bit now... after I find out about Golden Cheetah ...
Not sure about v3.1, but RC4 of v3.2 is available and supports Windows 10 so shouldn't be too long before the stable version is out (if you don't want to use the release candidate).0 -
Windows10 and TR, anyone?
It works great
Thank you... might even do the free up bit now... after I find out about Golden Cheetah ...
Not sure about v3.1, but RC4 of v3.2 is available and supports Windows 10 so shouldn't be too long before the stable version is out (if you don't want to use the release candidate).
Too old for release candidates nowadays... I'll wait ;-)0 -
Lengthy, confusing (for me anyway) question, apologies but any help would be appreciated!
Setup with an electronic trainer with power and a seperate power meter, they don't agree so would like to use the power offset feature in TR to adjust the electronic trainer. PM reads lower so do I set that to minus the appropriate watts?
Now, just done a 20 min FTP test. assuming I set the offset, do I then set FTP as 95% of the 20 minute power from the powermeter rather than the trainer? That wiould seem logical but not sure if TR might already take that into consideration somehow?
EDITED to replace the word now with not...0 -
Lengthy, confusing (for me anyway) question, apologies but any help would be appreciated!
Setup with an electronic trainer with power and a seperate power meter, they don't agree so would like to use the power offset feature in TR to adjust the electronic trainer. PM reads lower so do I set that to minus the appropriate watts?
Now, just done a 20 min FTP test. assuming I set the offset, do I then set FTP as 95% of the 20 minute power from the powermeter rather than the trainer? That wiould seem logical but now sure if TR might already take that into consideration somehow?
Great question, Im in the same boat. Ir seems like the offset suffers from a delay and then sticks on more power unevenly0 -
I've started another thread, but this seems like the obvious thread for any questions.
I have a Bryton 20 GPS computer, which comes with cadence sensor and hrm. I'm assuming I also need a speed sensor to help calculate the virtual power?
Would a garmin cadence/speed sensor pair up with my computer, or does it just need to pair up with the ant+ stick?0 -
I've started another thread, but this seems like the obvious thread for any questions.
I have a Bryton 20 GPS computer, which comes with cadence sensor and hrm. I'm assuming I also need a speed sensor to help calculate the virtual power?
Would a garmin cadence/speed sensor pair up with my computer, or does it just need to pair up with the ant+ stick?
Not 100% sure whether the sensor will pair with your bryton, but to use TR it only needs to pair with the ant stick in you pc. As you've already got cadence, you could also look at the newer speed only sensor which is much easier to work with, just attaches to the rear hub with a rubber band.0 -
Thanks for that, didn't really want to have 2 cadence sensors on the bike haha.0
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I spent last winter doing regular TR sessions and saw immediate benefits when I hit the roads again in the spring with plenty of PB's and generally feeling stronger and more fluid on the bike.
After a busy couple of months work-wise I've now decided to go back to TR in conjunction with road riding in order to get in peak condition for a couple of weeks' dedicated cycling down south at the end of the summer.
So I attempted the 20-min test a couple of days ago and barely managed to complete it, let alone maintain anything like the virtual power I was producing in the spring... and if I raise my heart rate to where I would normally be comfortable(ish) on a long climb on the road, I can only hold the output for maybe 5 minutes before I have to back off. Weird.
Interestingly, my new virtual FTP from TR is about 50-60 watts (20-25%) lower than what Strava generally estimates my average power to be over a decent Alpine climb. I appreciate both numbers are estimates but it seems odd that the difference is that wide. I set another PB yesterday, 55 minutes for a 14km at 6% climb, so I know I'm in reasonably good shape.
From speaking to friends with power meters, Strava estimates sound like they are usually fairly accurate, ie within 5% of the actual output.
So the question is, is it possible to "forget" how to ride on a turbo? Or does TR make changes to the algorithms for how virtual power is calculated, ie have they done something with the calculation for my particular turbo (CycleOps Fluid 2) that means the calculated output is lower than it should be?
It's not necessarily a problem; I will continue to use TR with the new FTP as a baseline and carry on riding on the road as normal. That said, the difference between heart rate on the turbo and outdoors is odd.0 -
I spent last winter doing regular TR sessions and saw immediate benefits when I hit the roads again in the spring with plenty of PB's and generally feeling stronger and more fluid on the bike.
After a busy couple of months work-wise I've now decided to go back to TR in conjunction with road riding in order to get in peak condition for a couple of weeks' dedicated cycling down south at the end of the summer.
So I attempted the 20-min test a couple of days ago and barely managed to complete it, let alone maintain anything like the virtual power I was producing in the spring... and if I raise my heart rate to where I would normally be comfortable(ish) on a long climb on the road, I can only hold the output for maybe 5 minutes before I have to back off. Weird.
Interestingly, my new virtual FTP from TR is about 50-60 watts (20-25%) lower than what Strava generally estimates my average power to be over a decent Alpine climb. I appreciate both numbers are estimates but it seems odd that the difference is that wide. I set another PB yesterday, 55 minutes for a 14km at 6% climb, so I know I'm in reasonably good shape.
From speaking to friends with power meters, Strava estimates sound like they are usually fairly accurate, ie within 5% of the actual output.
So the question is, is it possible to "forget" how to ride on a turbo? Or does TR make changes to the algorithms for how virtual power is calculated, ie have they done something with the calculation for my particular turbo (CycleOps Fluid 2) that means the calculated output is lower than it should be?
It's not necessarily a problem; I will continue to use TR with the new FTP as a baseline and carry on riding on the road as normal. That said, the difference between heart rate on the turbo and outdoors is odd.
Hmm let me see if I can provide some insight here. So the power curve that we use for this trainer to calculate Virtual Power has not changed and this is actually a very reliable curve and trainer.
While inconsistencies in Virtual Power can arise when certain variables in your setup change (check out this article for setup tips to maintain consistency in VP), your mention of heart rate leads me to believe this isn't the issue.
Given that you are unable to maintain the normal HR values that you are climbing at outdoors, it's fairly safe to assume you are in fact putting out less power indoors than you are putting out outdoors. The reason here is that riding indoors is different than riding outdoors and takes some time to adapt to. Since you are just coming back to indoor riding, things like thermoregulation, breathing (since fresh air isn't blowing directly into your face), and the lack of free 'sway' of the bike since it's now in a trainer can all effect your power.
I'd recommend double checking your setup, and then give yourself some time to adapt to riding indoors again.0 -
Sorry, I've got more questions.
Looks like I'm buying the KK Road Machine and the Garmin rear wheel speed sensor to add to the cadence sensor and HRM I already have.
I'm in 2 minds about going down the iOS route or not though. I have an iPhone 4s and my little 'pain cave' also has a laptop setup. I was originally just going to go Suunto ant+ stick and use the laptop, but if I did this I wouldn't be able to have any box set/film on as well which really helps me pass the time.
So looking at the Wahoo fitness iPhone case thing with built in ant+ stick which would allow me to watch stuff on the laptop.
Anyone use the Wahoo fitness iPhone case or TR on iOS able to give any feedback. Is it difficult to read the screen/graphs for eg?0 -
Sorry, I've got more questions.
Looks like I'm buying the KK Road Machine and the Garmin rear wheel speed sensor to add to the cadence sensor and HRM I already have.
I'm in 2 minds about going down the iOS route or not though. I have an iPhone 4s and my little 'pain cave' also has a laptop setup. I was originally just going to go Suunto ant+ stick and use the laptop, but if I did this I wouldn't be able to have any box set/film on as well which really helps me pass the time.
So looking at the Wahoo fitness iPhone case thing with built in ant+ stick which would allow me to watch stuff on the laptop.
Anyone use the Wahoo fitness iPhone case or TR on iOS able to give any feedback. Is it difficult to read the screen/graphs for eg?
Note that you could get the wahoo speed and cadence sensor which connects via bluetooth so you wouldn't need the ANT+ adapater.0 -
I spent last winter doing regular TR sessions and saw immediate benefits when I hit the roads again in the spring with plenty of PB's and generally feeling stronger and more fluid on the bike.
After a busy couple of months work-wise I've now decided to go back to TR in conjunction with road riding in order to get in peak condition for a couple of weeks' dedicated cycling down south at the end of the summer.
So I attempted the 20-min test a couple of days ago and barely managed to complete it, let alone maintain anything like the virtual power I was producing in the spring... and if I raise my heart rate to where I would normally be comfortable(ish) on a long climb on the road, I can only hold the output for maybe 5 minutes before I have to back off. Weird.
Interestingly, my new virtual FTP from TR is about 50-60 watts (20-25%) lower than what Strava generally estimates my average power to be over a decent Alpine climb. I appreciate both numbers are estimates but it seems odd that the difference is that wide. I set another PB yesterday, 55 minutes for a 14km at 6% climb, so I know I'm in reasonably good shape.
From speaking to friends with power meters, Strava estimates sound like they are usually fairly accurate, ie within 5% of the actual output.
So the question is, is it possible to "forget" how to ride on a turbo? Or does TR make changes to the algorithms for how virtual power is calculated, ie have they done something with the calculation for my particular turbo (CycleOps Fluid 2) that means the calculated output is lower than it should be?
It's not necessarily a problem; I will continue to use TR with the new FTP as a baseline and carry on riding on the road as normal. That said, the difference between heart rate on the turbo and outdoors is odd.
Hmm let me see if I can provide some insight here. So the power curve that we use for this trainer to calculate Virtual Power has not changed and this is actually a very reliable curve and trainer.
While inconsistencies in Virtual Power can arise when certain variables in your setup change (check out this article for setup tips to maintain consistency in VP), your mention of heart rate leads me to believe this isn't the issue.
Given that you are unable to maintain the normal HR values that you are climbing at outdoors, it's fairly safe to assume you are in fact putting out less power indoors than you are putting out outdoors. The reason here is that riding indoors is different than riding outdoors and takes some time to adapt to. Since you are just coming back to indoor riding, things like thermoregulation, breathing (since fresh air isn't blowing directly into your face), and the lack of free 'sway' of the bike since it's now in a trainer can all effect your power.
I'd recommend double checking your setup, and then give yourself some time to adapt to riding indoors again.
Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.
With regards the set-up, as you know the Fluid2 has the click wheel to engage the drum with the tyre and that appears to be working OK (ie when it clicks there is enough pressure to make a slight indent in the tyre at the point of contact). The tyre itself is at 145 PSI, as per the manufacturer's recommendation.
I'll see how things go over the next few weeks, as I said I'm not overly bothered about it so long as the TR set-up remains constant, I was just curious that there was such a difference between indoors and out.
Thanks again for your input.0 -
When were you last using TR cc ? Its warm now - most people do turbo in the off season.
I coped with one fan thru ythe winter. I'm using two now and its still very hot in the garage.
What tyre runs at 145 PSI ? Is your rim rated for that high ?0 -
Looks like I'm buying the KK Road Machine and the Garmin rear wheel speed sensor to add to the cadence sensor and HRM I already have.
Hi, just a heads up but I run a Garmin (accelerometer) speed sensor and TR - originally I had a Bryton Rider 35 which didn't pick up it up properly (saw there was a device but had no idea what it was), ended up swapping out to a Garmin 500 which is fine. TR detected the sensor correctly through a Suunto MiniMovestick though, so that was good, but just in case the Bryton doesn't pick it up just be aware that it's probably not you or your setup (I emailed them some months ago, never heard anything).
The KK Road Machine is a cracking bit of kit btw, love mine to bits - it had a cheapish InRide upgrade from the US a while back, which is great - if a little chastening 0 -
Thanks for the heads up.
I wasn't planning to try and get the Garmin speed sensor to pair up with my Bryton, was just to link through to ant+ and TrainerRoad.
Have found the KKRM for £180, which looks like a bit of a steal. But being tighter than a ducks ar$e (as my fiance loves to point out) I'm thinking I could get another, cheaper trainer and get everything I need for about the same price. Is the RM worth the extra cash?0 -
When were you last using TR cc ? Its warm now - most people do turbo in the off season.
I coped with one fan thru ythe winter. I'm using two now and its still very hot in the garage.
What tyre runs at 145 PSI ? Is your rim rated for that high ?
My last TR sessions before this week were at the end of May, it's definitely hotter now but in the meantime I have been riding outdoors in the heatwave we've been having here...
The tyre is a Vittoria Zaffiro trainer tyre with 7-10 bar recommended pressure on the label... I assumed it was best to run it as high as possible although I wasn't aware that the rims have a max pressure as well... you learn something new every day. They are Mavic Kysrium Equipe, a quick swatch online at the manual doesn't indicate anything but that's not to say there isn't a sticker inside the rim somewhere; perhaps I'll take the tyre off and have a look... say I drop the pressure by 20 psi, could that make much difference to the resistance on the turbo?0 -
Thanks for the heads up.
I wasn't planning to try and get the Garmin speed sensor to pair up with my Bryton, was just to link through to ant+ and TrainerRoad.
Have found the KKRM for £180, which looks like a bit of a steal. But being tighter than a ducks ar$e (as my fiance loves to point out) I'm thinking I could get another, cheaper trainer and get everything I need for about the same price. Is the RM worth the extra cash?
Personally i'd say so - there is a lifetime guarantee on the machine (original owner, imagine there are ways that could be um.. accomplished if bought second hand) although probably not needed as the drive unit is a piece of exemplary engineering IMO (magnetic coupling, sealed fluid unit, very low thermal changes in viscosity). It's very robust, stable and well supported in TR - a benchmark trainer in a few applications in fact - and the power curve is very close to a road feel especially with the larger flywheel I understand (haven't tried that). The addition of an InRide gives a very accurate power reading as well - but that's extra money and doesn't work outside obviously.
The only downside is it's not a 'smart' (remote resistance controlled trainer) but then again it's not priced like one - FWIW if I had to re-buy a 'dumb' trainer i'd get another one, no question. For £ 180, it's cracking buy. All this 'in my opinion' of course !
Edit : Oo, nearly forgot. I wouldn't really consider cheaper trainers than that money - however the Cycleops Fluid 2 trainers are also very highly thought of, very well engineered and supported by applications and can sometimes be found for around £ 200 (Evans had them about that earlier in the year IIRC).0 -
I was originally just going to go Suunto ant+ stick and use the laptop, but if I did this I wouldn't be able to have any box set/film on as well which really helps me pass the time.
You can watch DVDs on your laptop and run TR on it at the same time. TR shrinks to a band across the bottom of the screen. It works a treat like that.
Cheers,
MarkPBoardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!0 -
When were you last using TR cc ? Its warm now - most people do turbo in the off season.
I coped with one fan thru ythe winter. I'm using two now and its still very hot in the garage.
What tyre runs at 145 PSI ? Is your rim rated for that high ?
My last TR sessions before this week were at the end of May, it's definitely hotter now but in the meantime I have been riding outdoors in the heatwave we've been having here...
The tyre is a Vittoria Zaffiro trainer tyre with 7-10 bar recommended pressure on the label... I assumed it was best to run it as high as possible although I wasn't aware that the rims have a max pressure as well... you learn something new every day. They are Mavic Kysrium Equipe, a quick swatch online at the manual doesn't indicate anything but that's not to say there isn't a sticker inside the rim somewhere; perhaps I'll take the tyre off and have a look... say I drop the pressure by 20 psi, could that make much difference to the resistance on the turbo?
Aah right a specific turbo tyre. I know my old vredestein tyres had a higher psi than my mavic cosmos rims were so it is possible.0 -
I was originally just going to go Suunto ant+ stick and use the laptop, but if I did this I wouldn't be able to have any box set/film on as well which really helps me pass the time.
You can watch DVDs on your laptop and run TR on it at the same time. TR shrinks to a band across the bottom of the screen. It works a treat like that.
Cheers,
MarkP
Cracking, that sounds perfect.0 -
Your FTP is different to "average power of a decent alpine climb" though, isn't it?Interestingly, my new virtual FTP from TR is about 50-60 watts (20-25%) lower than what Strava generally estimates my average power to be over a decent Alpine climb. I appreciate both numbers are estimates but it seems odd that the difference is that wide.
From speaking to friends with power meters, Strava estimates sound like they are usually fairly accurate, ie within 5% of the actual output.
It's not necessarily a problem; I will continue to use TR with the new FTP as a baseline and carry on riding on the road as normal. That said, the difference between heart rate on the turbo and outdoors is odd.
FTP is determined by a specific maximum-effort over time test, and is then calculated back to give your one-hour maximum power. This isn't the same as the power output you average over a climb, so I don't think you can even compare the two, in my opinion.
As to using your turbo for training, the most important thing is consistency in your set-up. So pick a tyre pressure and stick with it for all your sessions, same goes for clamping force etc. Don't worry about what your FTP might have been in the past, especially if your set-up is different. Just get your benchmark FTP now, and work with that. The absolute value is irrelevant really.
Cheers,
MarkPBoardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!0
