Olympic Mens TT, Wednesday

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

oneof1982 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ah chapeaux etc.

I want to like him but I can't.

Bloody fast though.

Time to let it go. You're missing out.

If ya don't like him ya don't like him.

I'm not particularly British or patriotic so I don't feel the same affinity.

With sports I know nothing about it's easier to get behind the Brits since they're the only people you end up knowing much about.

But with cycling, I've watched it for so long now that I kinda see beyond all that.

Yet you started a thread bemoaning the performance of Dutch riders?

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

oneof1982 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ah chapeaux etc.

I want to like him but I can't.

Bloody fast though.

Time to let it go. You're missing out.

If ya don't like him ya don't like him.

I'm not particularly British or patriotic so I don't feel the same affinity.

With sports I know nothing about it's easier to get behind the Brits since they're the only people you end up knowing much about.

But with cycling, I've watched it for so long now that I kinda see beyond all that.

Yet you started a thread bemoaning the performance of Dutch riders?

TBH, I like most of them, and I was watching a lot of the avondetappe.

So I was getting the in depth story of each rider.

frenchfighter

chrisga

The_Special_One wrote:

chrisga wrote:

Well done to Wiggins and Froome. Excellent rides.

Does anyone know, despite all the furore over branding even down to people's t-shirts in the olympic park, how all the bikes in the Road Race and time trial were able to compete with the manufacturers names emblazoned on the downtubes? I don't have any issues with it - just curious thats all.

I think they get away with it because a bike will be classed as a piece of technical equipment and as such can have a non Olympic partner logo on it.

Come the track and field events we will see many athletes wearing Nike footwear despite Adidas been an official Olympic partner, Nike footwear when competing will be classed as technical equipment. Although saying that an athlete running in a pair of Nikes and wins a medal wont be allowed to wear a pair of Nikes on the podium because on the podium there just classed as a pair of trainers and not technical equipment, same goes for wearing non Olympic partners logos within the Olympic park. If it falls under technical equipment the non Olympic partner logo can be shown, if not it can't.

Thanks. Great explanation. Makes sense.

lostboysaint

Nice to see a photo of Froome smiling for a change.

Monty Zoncolan

Neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things of course, but did anyone observe Wiggins' body language with Froome? I don't think I saw them congratulate each other or even make eye contact at any point, even when Wiggins ushered him and Martin onto the top step of the podium. Could be me but it looked a little awkward.

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

oneof1982 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ah chapeaux etc.

I want to like him but I can't.

Bloody fast though.

Time to let it go. You're missing out.

If ya don't like him ya don't like him.

I'm not particularly British or patriotic so I don't feel the same affinity.

With sports I know nothing about it's easier to get behind the Brits since they're the only people you end up knowing much about.

But with cycling, I've watched it for so long now that I kinda see beyond all that.

Yet you started a thread bemoaning the performance of Dutch riders?

TBH, I like most of them, and I was watching a lot of the avondetappe.

So I was getting the in depth story of each rider.

Wriggle Wrigggle

I'm not a mad patriot either, but have to confess to being a bit of a fan of both Wiggins and Cavendish. I like the fact that they have very strong personalities, even if they can both act likes dickheads sometimes. They talk the talk but also walk the walk.

I find most of the current crop of Dutch riders a bit vanilla in comparison, and they don't seem to have the same winning instinct as the current generation of Brits do. I appreciate that as somebody who only speaks basic Dutch I rely mostly on interviews etc conducted in their second language so this probably plays a part.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Wriggle Wrigggle

I'm not a mad patriot either, but have to confess to being a bit of a fan of both Wiggins and Cavendish. I like the fact that they have very strong personalities, even if they can both act likes dickheads sometimes. They talk the talk but also walk the walk.

I find most of the current crop of Dutch riders a bit vanilla in comparison, and they don't seem to have the same winning instinct as the current generation of Brits do. I appreciate that as somebody who only speaks basic Dutch I rely mostly on interviews etc conducted in their second language so this probably plays a part.

Yeah.

I probably get a little more patriotic about the Dutch too thinknig about it.

My Dutch mother was very keen, probably since it helped her keep her roots whilst being stuck in the UK, and my Dad is very apathetic about both sport and patriotism.

There's also a part of me that is hating all the bandwagon cycling fans, but since that's a terrible thing to say I'm trying to keep it to myself.

k-dog

chrisga wrote:

The_Special_One wrote:

chrisga wrote:

Well done to Wiggins and Froome. Excellent rides.

Does anyone know, despite all the furore over branding even down to people's t-shirts in the olympic park, how all the bikes in the Road Race and time trial were able to compete with the manufacturers names emblazoned on the downtubes? I don't have any issues with it - just curious thats all.

I think they get away with it because a bike will be classed as a piece of technical equipment and as such can have a non Olympic partner logo on it.

Come the track and field events we will see many athletes wearing Nike footwear despite Adidas been an official Olympic partner, Nike footwear when competing will be classed as technical equipment. Although saying that an athlete running in a pair of Nikes and wins a medal wont be allowed to wear a pair of Nikes on the podium because on the podium there just classed as a pair of trainers and not technical equipment, same goes for wearing non Olympic partners logos within the Olympic park. If it falls under technical equipment the non Olympic partner logo can be shown, if not it can't.

Thanks. Great explanation. Makes sense.

If you look carefully you'll see that even the guys riding their regular bikes have different paintjobs/stickers - the IOC have strict rules about non-sponsor brands even on equipment - down to the size of the logo and stuff. It's not like the world championship where guys just ride their regular team stuff.

That's why Specialized gave all their sponsored athletes those luminous orange/red bikes - very simple graphics that meets the letter of the law but you could see them a mile away.

iainf72

Methinks Froome might be wondering if he declared for wrong country.

Wiggins said on the Beeb later on that he feels for Froome as he's been overshadowed but no one should under estimate what he's done.

inkyfingers

iainf72 wrote:

Methinks Froome might be wondering if he declared for wrong country.

I'm not sure about that. If he wasn't "British" he may not have got a contract with Sky, and certainly wouldn't get the same level help and equipment that Team GB riders get in the Olympics/Worlds.

frenchfighter

Ok, so he has huge legs. But these shorts are pushing it too far.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

Methinks Froome might be wondering if he declared for wrong country.

Wiggins said on the Beeb later on that he feels for Froome as he's been overshadowed but no one should under estimate what he's done.

How much backing do you think he would have got from the Kenyans? A multitool and a spare inner tube? And would Sky be paying a Kenyan as much?

Pross

DF33 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The new Jimmy Saville, now then now then

Now then, now then what have we here - a letter from young Christopher from Nairobi "Dear Bradley, please could you fix it for me to ride in a major bike race and win it? I have been riding for many years now and have been getting much better but mt friend keeps beating me and my girlfriend is starting to get fed up with me not winning anything. I know this can be very difficult to arrange so maybe not a really big race, there's something in Spain in a few weeks. Please, please, please fix it for me".

ddraver

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

Methinks Froome might be wondering if he declared for wrong country.

Wiggins said on the Beeb later on that he feels for Froome as he's been overshadowed but no one should under estimate what he's done.

As Richard Moore (I think) said on twitter yesterday, and I'll paraphrase, "Froome has the second best season of any British rider ever, but what a year to do it in".

TheBigBean

Just looking at some stats calculated my me, so subject to a large margin of error, but anyway.

Wiggins at Olympics 2012 - 52.1 kp/h

Cancellera at Olympics 2012 - 49.9 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2011 50.57 km/h (Tony Martin 51.8 km/h)
Cancellera at Worlds 2010 47.05 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2009 51.58 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2007 48.38 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2006 50.66 km/h

So on a very crude basis which doesn't consider hills, even a top form Cancellera or Martin wouldn't have beaten Wiggins.

I chose the Worlds as it is often a lap, so there shouldn't be a net gain or loss in height and therefore compares to the Olympics.

turbo_hamster

Monty Zoncolan wrote:

... did anyone observe Wiggins' body language with Froome? I don't think I saw them congratulate each other or even make eye contact at any point, even when Wiggins ushered him and Martin onto the top step of the podium. Could be me but it looked a little awkward.

I noticed this too. Very positive body language towards Martin, eye contact, smiling, body turned towards him, pat on the back. A slight glance in Froome's direction, enough to acknowledge him. It was only a few seconds, so maybe I needed the full context, but I felt it might have been a bit of a "tumbleweed moment" from Froome's point of view.

I felt quite uplifted by the obvious warmth and respect between Wiggins & Martin. It is pretty good to see two athletes at the top of the game sharing such a wonderful moment. I was only disappointed that Cancellara missed out - I'd like to have seen him on the podium, although not above Wiggins!

k-dog

TheBigBean wrote:

Just looking at some stats calculated my me, so subject to a large margin of error, but anyway.

Wiggins at Olympics 2012 - 52.1 kp/h

Cancellera at Olympics 2012 - 49.9 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2011 50.57 km/h (Tony Martin 51.8 km/h)
Cancellera at Worlds 2010 47.05 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2009 51.58 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2007 48.38 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2006 50.66 km/h

So on a very crude basis which doesn't consider hills, even a top form Cancellera or Martin wouldn't have beaten Wiggins.

I chose the Worlds as it is often a lap, so there shouldn't be a net gain or loss in height and therefore compares to the Olympics.

I think hills is probably the obvious answer. Can't find them all but here's the 2006 profile:



I can't find the profile from yesterday but seem to remember it being pretty flat.

gingermagician

turbo hamster wrote:

Monty Zoncolan wrote:

... did anyone observe Wiggins' body language with Froome? I don't think I saw them congratulate each other or even make eye contact at any point, even when Wiggins ushered him and Martin onto the top step of the podium. Could be me but it looked a little awkward.

I noticed this too. Very positive body language towards Martin, eye contact, smiling, body turned towards him, pat on the back. A slight glance in Froome's direction, enough to acknowledge him. It was only a few seconds, so maybe I needed the full context, but I felt it might have been a bit of a "tumbleweed moment" from Froome's point of view.

I felt quite uplifted by the obvious warmth and respect between Wiggins & Martin. It is pretty good to see two athletes at the top of the game sharing such a wonderful moment. I was only disappointed that Cancellara missed out - I'd like to have seen him on the podium, although not above Wiggins!

I suspect people could be reading too much into this Wiggins vs. Froome thing - a club-mate of mine saw them disappearing into the Mitre (pub opposite HCP) after the medal ceremony amid a throng of people.

Crankbrother

One thing I noticed when watching the TT yesterday ... It was f'ing boring ...

Without the additional ramifications of GC placings it's just a big nothing unless you are invested in the guys at the top of the splits ... Take away the grrrrreat britain hoopla and it was a dull days racing with no excitement or surprises ...

rick_chasey

Crankbrother wrote:

One thing I noticed when watching the TT yesterday ... It was f'ing boring ...

Without the additional ramifications of GC placings it's just a big nothing unless you are invested in the guys at the top of the splits ... Take away the grrrrreat britain hoopla and it was a dull days racing with no excitement or surprises ...

viewtopic.php?f=40012&t=12868007&start=220#p17777874

Back me up .

Crankbrother

You're right!!!

That thread is more interesting than yesterday's TT ...

mattshrops

Crankbrother wrote:

One thing I noticed when watching the TT yesterday ... It was f'ing boring ...

Without the additional ramifications of GC placings it's just a big nothing unless you are invested in the guys at the top of the splits ... Take away the grrrrreat britain hoopla and it was a dull days racing with no excitement or surprises ...

Probably depend if you do TT's yourself or not.Obv not the most exciting racing but i'll take it when its on offer.

TheBigBean

k-dog wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Just looking at some stats calculated my me, so subject to a large margin of error, but anyway.

Wiggins at Olympics 2012 - 52.1 kp/h

Cancellera at Olympics 2012 - 49.9 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2011 50.57 km/h (Tony Martin 51.8 km/h)
Cancellera at Worlds 2010 47.05 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2009 51.58 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2007 48.38 km/h
Cancellera at Worlds 2006 50.66 km/h

So on a very crude basis which doesn't consider hills, even a top form Cancellera or Martin wouldn't have beaten Wiggins.

I chose the Worlds as it is often a lap, so there shouldn't be a net gain or loss in height and therefore compares to the Olympics.

I think hills is probably the obvious answer. Can't find them all but here's the 2006 profile:



I can't find the profile from yesterday but seem to remember it being pretty flat.

Apparently London was hillier than Copenhagen, but in the grand scheme of things, both were quite flat http://www.cyclingpowermodels.com/OlympicTimeTrial.aspx

I don't quite understand some of the technical points in the article relating to weather amongst other things, but they calculate that Tony Martin on last year's form would have ridden a few seconds quicker than Wiggins this year.

I just think Wiggin's average speed after a three week grand tour was staggering in a historical context, and other than the obvious, I was wondering if anyone had any explanations. Also note, there have only ever been five quicker tour TTs (Indurain, Armstrong, Millar, Leipheimer and Lemond)

rick_chasey

TheBigBean wrote:

I just think Wiggin's average speed after a three week grand tour was staggering in a historical context, and other than the obvious, I was wondering if anyone had any explanations. Also note, there have only ever been five quicker tour TTs (Indurain, Armstrong, Millar, Leipheimer and Lemond)

Technology gains have a much bigger impact on times in TTs than they do in bunch starts.

disgruntledgoat

Rick Chasey wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

I just think Wiggin's average speed after a three week grand tour was staggering in a historical context, and other than the obvious, I was wondering if anyone had any explanations. Also note, there have only ever been five quicker tour TTs (Indurain, Armstrong, Millar, Leipheimer and Lemond)

Technology gains have a much bigger impact on times in TTs than they do in bunch starts.

Was there a massive tailwind?

rick_chasey

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

I just think Wiggin's average speed after a three week grand tour was staggering in a historical context, and other than the obvious, I was wondering if anyone had any explanations. Also note, there have only ever been five quicker tour TTs (Indurain, Armstrong, Millar, Leipheimer and Lemond)

Technology gains have a much bigger impact on times in TTs than they do in bunch starts.

Was there a massive tailwind?

And that.

Was out and back for the olympic route.

Sort of.

TheBigBean

It was a circuit!

I mean, I know I feel like the wind always blows against me when I ride a circuit, I don't actually think it is true.

disgruntledgoat

TheBigBean wrote:

It was a circuit!

I mean, I know I feel like the wind always blows against me when I ride a circuit, I don't actually think it is true.

I was being fatuous.