TDF Stage 17 *spoiler*
Comments
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This pretty much sums up todays race
Jonathan Vaughters
@Vaughters:
"Whoa. Yikes. Either work for wiggins or attack him. Two feet in or two feet out.
Would have been better for Froome to just drop Wiggo by 20 seconds or whatever and settle it in the time trial. That was just humiliation."0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:I'm with Rick.
Sky = Meh, And Jim, the problem with the Tour being over is that we are now going to have to suffer the idocy of non-cycling related news and 'new cycling fans' who are sure to go on a month long Wiggins overkill drive without all the facts or any general knowledge and drive me to possible suicide with idiotic comments and an influx of twonks on my commute who now, because a skinny british bloke won a bike race, find the need to buy a bike and ride around like morons pretending they are the next big thing...
I think you're probably right LeicesterLad, and the truth is Team Sky aren't really interested in appealing to you. Cycling has always been a minnow sport in the UK and that's probably how you'd like to keep it. As someone who only started cycling 10 months ago I'm sure I'm not worthy to be contributing to the hallowed threads of the pro race board. As for my wife, who is a complete non cyclist but has been totally gripped by the spectacle of the TdF, well she would really have you reaching for your prozac. And for the countless others I've spoken to who have started watching and taking part in cycling over the past year, well what a curse we are on your sport.
And as for those who say that this TDF has been boring, try telling that to my mrs. Actually Sky are far more interested in the likes of her than they are you LeicesterLad. But that's pro cycling sponsorship for you.
So go have a sniff of the leather on your old Brooks saddle to cheer yourself up cos cycling's going all popular damn it :roll:0 -
It's not been the most exciting tour de france, and team skys approach doesnt make for on the edge of yer seat viewing for stages at a time but its still an incredible race, just like all the other stage AND one day races that we follow throughout the year. The July-specific opinionated cycling fans have finally cracked my patience.0
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MartinB2444 wrote:
And as for those who say that this TDF has been boring, try telling that to my mrs. Actually Sky are far more interested in the likes of her than they are you LeicesterLad. But that's pro cycling sponsorship for you.
So go have a sniff of the leather on your old Brooks saddle to cheer yourself up cos cycling's going all popular damn it :roll:
And that's great. If this Tour has proved interesting to her and all, that's brilliant. But it's the first TdF she's watched, right? If so, tell her cycling can be a lot more exciting and interesting and get her coming back for more.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
MartinB2444 wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:I'm with Rick.
Sky = Meh, And Jim, the problem with the Tour being over is that we are now going to have to suffer the idocy of non-cycling related news and 'new cycling fans' who are sure to go on a month long Wiggins overkill drive without all the facts or any general knowledge and drive me to possible suicide with idiotic comments and an influx of twonks on my commute who now, because a skinny british bloke won a bike race, find the need to buy a bike and ride around like morons pretending they are the next big thing...
I think you're probably right LeicesterLad, and the truth is Team Sky aren't really interested in appealing to you. Cycling has always been a minnow sport in the UK and that's probably how you'd like to keep it. As someone who only started cycling 10 months ago I'm sure I'm not worthy to be contributing to the hallowed threads of the pro race board. As for my wife, who is a complete non cyclist but has been totally gripped by the spectacle of the TdF, well she would really have you reaching for your prozac. And for the countless others I've spoken to who have started watching and taking part in cycling over the past year, well what a curse we are on your sport.
And as for those who say that this TDF has been boring, try telling that to my mrs. Actually Sky are far more interested in the likes of her than they are you LeicesterLad. But that's pro cycling sponsorship for you.
So go have a sniff of the leather on your old Brooks saddle to cheer yourself up cos cycling's going all popular damn it :roll:
I was out for a ride earlier and I saw 2 other guys out on road bikes... Glory hunting a*****es! So I overtook them and called them all sorts of terrible things. I hope they put their bikes in a shed and never use them again.0 -
LesDiablesRouges wrote:This pretty much sums up todays race
Jonathan Vaughters
@Vaughters:
"Whoa. Yikes. Either work for wiggins or attack him. Two feet in or two feet out.
Would have been better for Froome to just drop Wiggo by 20 seconds or whatever and settle it in the time trial. That was just humiliation."
Really or does it just sum up the old guard who were sniggering when Sky launched and publicly stated that the aim was to win the TDF within 5 years - 3 years later....
If you want to blame anyone blame the other teams for not having the balls to take Sky on properly - all I've seen is half arsed attempts. Or is it the fact that they simply aren't good enough in a cleaned up world?0 -
alanjay wrote:
If you want to blame anyone blame the other teams for not having the balls to take Sky on properly - all I've seen is half arsed attempts. Or is it the fact that they simply aren't good enough in a cleaned up world?
A cleaned up world where we had a positive test? :PFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
The things is we dont know if Froome could fully drop and take time out of Wiggins or not.
It does look like, at times (not all the time) he could drop Wiggins, but could he keep it up?
Some people seem to thinks so, but thats just how they see it, not necessarily how it is.Mañana0 -
I don't really know where I fit; I've been watching the Tour for about five, six years, and generally catch a fair part of the other Grand Tours and bits and bats elsewhere, and I like Wiggins - partly because I knew him from the track side of his cycling.
Sky have been monstrous this time, and its been impressive, but the Tour itself has been less competitive as a result, and less of a spectacle. Of course, that's not Sky's lookout, but maybe in future it will be.
Have to say, the man I've enjoyed most this Tour has been Voeckler - especially the last two days. He rides like he loves it.0 -
Me and my mates took up cycling about ten years ago, in a midlands city named after Leicesterlad. We're old, we could have done other things. We're a mixed bunch. Some of us struggle with the Murdoch empire thing, and some of us are celts who struggle with the union flag thing. But all of us share a long held interest in the tdf- predating our active cycling, and all of us want to see a "British" bloke winning it. Sorry but that is the way it is. Like we wanted Sir Chris, and Cav and Vicky to do well.
We've just come back from France where some of us did both edt's whilst some of us are happy to cycle out 30 miles for a bit of tea and cake. Some of us are going back to Paris tomorrow so we can see history being made. I'm not bored, I'm excited.0 -
pb21 wrote:The things is we dont know if Froome could fully drop and take time out of Wiggins or not.
I
Isn't it frustrating though?
We want to see the best riders unleashed, riding as good as they can. Well, I do anyway.
I can see why sky did it, but as a fan I can be disappointed about it. A bit like my football team setting up really defensively, or putting my favourite player on the bench. I can see why they do it - but it doesn't mean I like it.
All we're left with is a question mark. That's a shame.0 -
Some people missing my point. It's fine that you are excited about Wiggins, Sky, This tour whatever... Nothing wrong with that, just saying not my thing, not a fan of sky or massively of wiggins, sorry if that is wrong to some of you but it an opinion no more or less valid than your own...
As for the people taking up cycling comments, it was quite obviously said with a little tongue on cheek. I even mentioned that I was bitter. What i mean is, im going to a wedding on Saturday, I now know that all of my friends who do not care for cycling will now become armchair pundits on the Tour de France and I will be left listening to a load of nonsensical remarks rather than enjoying that wedding...0 -
if nothing else changed in the Tour - Ridden same way etc, but you switched the teams around and say Nibali or Menchov was in yellow, far fewer people would say it was exciting.
But we should judge how good the racing is, not who the leader is.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
fuck off valverde doping wankerThe UCI are Clowns and Fools0
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During the Dauphine, one of the team owners/managers (Vaughters?) tweeted that Sky's domination of that particular race was unsurprising due to them being, and here I paraphrase, "a couple of 600k guys, pulling for an 800k guy who's pulling for a 1.2m guy who's working for a 2m guy..."
In one sense the way that Sky have gone about winning the tour doesn't appeal to the old-school, or the traditionalist. They've won it without flair, seemingly without joy, without passion. It's not been won through [visible] suffering and panache but through brutally calculated performance-monitoring and discipline - both of which seem to be the product of shit loads of cash which seems a world away from the glorified image of old-world continental European penury as glorified by Rouleur et al. It hasn't even been won through attacking riding or individual supremecy (bar the ITT which doesn't count...) but though machine-like grinding.
The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, they say, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.*
Still, a British team, has taken a British rider to the brink of a TdF win within three years of its formation - and more than that they've put his lieutenant on the step next to him. Next year we might see what Froome can or can't do off the leash, but for now, I'll take this, probable, win and raise a number of cold lagers in Wiggins' honour.
*edit for clarity0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:pb21 wrote:The things is we dont know if Froome could fully drop and take time out of Wiggins or not.
I
Isn't it frustrating though?
We want to see the best riders unleashed, riding as good as they can. Well, I do anyway.
I can see why sky did it, but as a fan I can be disappointed about it. A bit like my football team setting up really defensively, or putting my favourite player on the bench. I can see why they do it - but it doesn't mean I like it.
All we're left with is a question mark. That's a shame.
Wiggo knows the truth and it will always be inside his mind, no matter what the record books say. Froome's performance over the three weeks and his theatrics at the summit today have definitely taken something away from Wiggo's victory.
I think only the most ardent Wiggo romanticist would argue that Froomey wasn't the best rider on that team now, and has essentially allowed Wiggins to win.0 -
The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Nonsense. Wiggins can (and in fact has) been in a position to drop Froome at least as often as Froome was in a position to drop him.
The main issue this Tour is that Sky have been ready and able to win and the others haven't been. The other teams haven't been remotely close, but that's not Sky's fault. You can only beat what's in front of you.0 -
My conclusion to this tour is the fact it is prob a cleaner peleton than ever which has made it more boring. (disclaimer- I want the sport to be clean) With all the riders being pretty equal in talent now that some aren't on rocket fuel the disparity in quality between Sky's 9 riders and the strength of all the other teams is very marked. Yes the parcour isn't the most exciting, but riders make races and this years GC contenders and their teams just haven't been up to it.
As a Brit and Wiggins fan I have enjoyed his battle and the show of strength from Sky. But putting my objective hat on this tour hasn't been an exciting tour other than Sagen and Voekler's escapades.
Heres hoping Bertie and A Schleck come back strong next year as well as better challenges from the GC rivals to make it a more interesting race in 20130 -
I think only the most ardent Wiggo romanticist would argue that Froomey wasn't the best rider on that team now, and has essentially allowed Wiggins to win.
Froome has looked better a couple of times - but not 2 minutes better and that's what he'd need as Wiggins is clearly a better TTer. You'd have to be an idiot not to see that.
All this English self-hate seems very odd - we had exactly the same thing last year about Cavendish. Can't you just be happy that a British team has structured the even so that their top man (also a Brit) can win? Froome isn't even really a British rider so I can't quite see a patriotic reason to support him - especially as he's coming over as a bit of a d1ck at times.0 -
niblue wrote:The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Nonsense. Wiggins can (and in fact has) been in a position to drop Froome at least as often as Froome was in a position to drop him.
The main issue this Tour is that Sky have been ready and able to win and the others haven't been. The other teams haven't been remotely close, but that's not Sky's fault. You can only beat what's in front of you.
I was paraphrasing others, not giving my own reading of their relative ability or form - I agree with you about the competition, the lack of which has contributed to the speculation over Froome.0 -
niblue wrote:The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Nonsense. Wiggins can (and in fact has) been in a position to drop Froome at least as often as Froome was in a position to drop him.
The main issue this Tour is that Sky have been ready and able to win and the others haven't been. The other teams haven't been remotely close, but that's not Sky's fault. You can only beat what's in front of you.
Not if team orders dictate that you are riding in a support role.0 -
Good grief. I've been watching the tour on the telly since it was on World of Sport, then the C4 coverage through to today - what's that at least 27 years or more? My best mate at primary school was a top local junior. I've been cycling regularly since 2003; TT's, sportives, lots and lots of commuting, triathlon, socials, holidays with like minded folk. I've willed on Sean Kelly, Robert Millar, Stephen Roche. I've read Cycling Weekly as I love the one-day racing and I've got a real soft spot for the semi-classics for some reason!!
And now after all that I've watched a British rider on a British team win the bloomin' thing - baring something awful happening. I've seen a British World Champion. I've seen British riders up there at the Vuelta learing how not to win so that they now can. This is all a bit surreal and I'm enjoying it. Every minute of it. It doesn't have the drama of Roche's famous last gasp catching of Delgado or Fignon losing to Lemond on the final day. It hasn't held the same joy as watching Millar win in 1984 (not live obviously!). It hasn't been as tense or exciting as many tours past. But we've got a British winner. Now, where can we go next as a cyling nation? This is exciting. We may now produce more winners and more exciting winners. Although to be fair Cav is pretty good to watch!
Sky set themselves up all year to have a single leader and a strong team supporting him in an attempt to win the Tour - result and it shows immense discipline in the squad esp for Froome and Cav.
Now we can start thinking about regular challenges in big tours and - fingers crossed - we can produce some challengers for the classics.
There is a lot of moaning on here, and I understand where it is coming from; but lift your heads up and look at or beyond the horizon and maybe this is the start of something and not an end in itself and we will have more of this sort of thing and perhaps on the terms that many would prefer to see.
In the meantime. Hat! Bradley Wiggins. The boy and the team (for it is a team sport) have done very well indeed. Stop moaning and enjoy it and hopefully we won't have to wait 99 years for another one, and a lot less for a win in Roubaix or Flanders or Lombardy or something!0 -
Squaggles wrote:fark off valverde doping wanker
The level of debate on here sometimes, makes me weep.
I'd report that, but what's the point? Illiterate potty-mouths will always return.0 -
Cogidubnus wrote:My conclusion to this tour is the fact it is prob a cleaner peloton than ever which has made it more boring. (disclaimer- I want the sport to be clean) With all the riders being pretty equal in talent now that some aren't on rocket fuel the disparity in quality between Sky's 9 riders and the strength of all the other teams is very marked. Yes the parcour isn't the most exciting, but riders make races and this years GC contenders and their teams just haven't been up to it.
As a Brit and Wiggins fan I have enjoyed his battle and the show of strength from Sky. But putting my objective hat on this tour hasn't been an exciting tour other than Sagen and Voekler's escapades.
Heres hoping Bertie and A Schleck come back strong next year as well as better challenges from the GC rivals to make it a more interesting race in 2013
Seriously think those two sit comfortably together.
Last year Evans hung on through the mountains and did Schleck in TT.
Pretty much everyone else back to Lemond won it in a pharmacy. What do people want?0 -
GentlemanBear wrote:The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Apart from Brad being better at TT & better at descending? Not all about ascending.0 -
Lichtblick wrote:Squaggles wrote:fark off valverde doping wanker
The level of debate on here sometimes, makes me weep.
I'd report that, but what's the point? Illiterate potty-mouths will always return.
He's got a point though...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
dougzz wrote:Pretty much everyone else back to Lemond won it in a pharmacy.
There has never been any whiff of suspicion whatsoever about Carlos Sastre's victory. In 2008.
Nor Evans's victory last year.0 -
iainf72 wrote:alanjay wrote:
If you want to blame anyone blame the other teams for not having the balls to take Sky on properly - all I've seen is half arsed attempts. Or is it the fact that they simply aren't good enough in a cleaned up world?
A cleaned up world where we had a positive test? :P
Exactly the old school are finally getting found out...0 -
plectrum wrote:GentlemanBear wrote:The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Apart from Brad being better at TT & better at descending? Not all about ascending.
I made an edit to make my intended meaning clearer - I agree with you 100%, I was paraphrasing the general mood of many - "Froome is better at steep bits that everyone loves to see the action on ergo he's the true champion".0 -
skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:Good grief. I've been watching the tour on the telly since it was on World of Sport, then the C4 coverage through to today - what's that at least 27 years or more? My best mate at primary school was a top local junior. I've been cycling regularly since 2003; TT's, sportives, lots and lots of commuting, triathlon, socials, holidays with like minded folk. I've willed on Sean Kelly, Robert Millar, Stephen Roche. I've read Cycling Weekly as I love the one-day racing and I've got a real soft spot for the semi-classics for some reason!!
And now after all that I've watched a British rider on a British team win the bloomin' thing - baring something awful happening. I've seen a British World Champion. I've seen British riders up there at the Vuelta learing how not to win so that they now can. This is all a bit surreal and I'm enjoying it. Every minute of it. It doesn't have the drama of Roche's famous last gasp catching of Delgado or Fignon losing to Lemond on the final day. It hasn't held the same joy as watching Millar win in 1984 (not live obviously!). It hasn't been as tense or exciting as many tours past. But we've got a British winner. Now, where can we go next as a cyling nation? This is exciting. We may now produce more winners and more exciting winners. Although to be fair Cav is pretty good to watch!
Sky set themselves up all year to have a single leader and a strong team supporting him in an attempt to win the Tour - result and it shows immense discipline in the squad esp for Froome and Cav.
Now we can start thinking about regular challenges in big tours and - fingers crossed - we can produce some challengers for the classics.
There is a lot of moaning on here, and I understand where it is coming from; but lift your heads up and look at or beyond the horizon and maybe this is the start of something and not an end in itself and we will have more of this sort of thing and perhaps on the terms that many would prefer to see.
In the meantime. Hat! Bradley Wiggins. The boy and the team (for it is a team sport) have done very well indeed. Stop moaning and enjoy it and hopefully we won't have to wait 99 years for another one, and a lot less for a win in Roubaix or Flanders or Lombardy or something!
That's a good post and reading that does make me feel slightly guilty about my feelings towards sky and wiggins but I still can't help it. I think Ian hit the nail when he see if it was menchov in yellow we wouldn't all be saying its exciting. Yes I'm British, but this isn't football, I like riders based on their personality, style, panache etc, not on nationality. I do like wiggins and it is good to have a British winner in a sense, but i still can't help finding him and sky incredibly boring to watch on and off the road, they just come accross as a bunch of dullards. I really can see why loads of people are excited but it shouldn't mean they can lamblast others who are not so.0
