TDF Stage 17 *spoiler*
Comments
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GentlemanBear wrote:plectrum wrote:GentlemanBear wrote:The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Apart from Brad being better at TT & better at descending? Not all about ascending.
I made an edit to make my intended meaning clearer - I agree with you 100%, I was paraphrasing the general mood of many - "Froome is better at steep bits that everyone loves to see the action on ergo he's the true champion".
Precisely although actually TT has been more important than climbing in ultimate victory be that Armastrong, Indurain, Evans or Contador. If it was all climbing Schlecky would be the most successful rider!
Will be interesting to see how Froome performs day after tomorrow as I felt his first TT was above expectation.0 -
jim453 wrote:I think only the most ardent Wiggo romanticist would argue that Froomey wasn't the best rider on that team now, and has essentially allowed Wiggins to win.
You're seeing this in a very 2 dimensional way.
Froome has been able to drop Wiggins, but Wiggins has also been in a position to drop Froome several times. Also from watching them I have the feeling that if Froome gapped Wiggins we'd be talking seconds, other way around it'd be minutes especially over several days.
Lets watch the result of the last time trial before jumping to x is stronger then y. If Wiggins can prove he is stronger in both time trials then this talk about Froome just won't wash I'm sorry. Too many people overexcited about Froome. Wiggins is the deal and he has delivered.The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
dougzz wrote:Cogidubnus wrote:My conclusion to this tour is the fact it is prob a cleaner peloton than ever which has made it more boring. (disclaimer- I want the sport to be clean) With all the riders being pretty equal in talent now that some aren't on rocket fuel the disparity in quality between Sky's 9 riders and the strength of all the other teams is very marked. Yes the parcour isn't the most exciting, but riders make races and this years GC contenders and their teams just haven't been up to it.
As a Brit and Wiggins fan I have enjoyed his battle and the show of strength from Sky. But putting my objective hat on this tour hasn't been an exciting tour other than Sagen and Voekler's escapades.
Heres hoping Bertie and A Schleck come back strong next year as well as better challenges from the GC rivals to make it a more interesting race in 2013
Seriously think those two sit comfortably together.
Last year Evans hung on through the mountains and did Schleck in TT.
Pretty much everyone else back to Lemond won it in a pharmacy. What do people want?
I agree my post might seem contradictory. But as long as convicted dopers such as Millar, Contador etc come back clean I have no problem with them riding again0 -
I'm not saying it's been exciting though. But it has been great. It would have been great if Liquigas had Nibali and Basso in 1 & 2. It would have been great if Cofidis has Ghyselinck and Taaramae in the 1 & 2 (hahahahahaha!)... As it happens, I think it's been great with Sky in that position.
I'm Dutch anyway, not fully British, so it's not a patriotic thing as I'll always be a Rabobank 'fan'.0 -
We really ought to stop calling them Sky and call them what they are, Team GB, all be it with some Aussies and Danes thrown in. But the approach, the professionalism, the attention to detail, the commitment, the determination, the planning, the execution, everything really, has evolved from Team GB. An approach to performance who's roots go back to Kean and Boardman in Barcelona 1992.
To see a team approaching a challenge in the way Team GB (Sky) have and to get the results they have in recent years is something that really ought to be admired, yet here we all are bitchin. If the England football team had a fraction of the dedication that Team GB have we might have to stop laughing when the inevitable penalty shoot out defeat arrives. If only the country had politicians with a fraction of Team GBs ability the country wouldn't be so screwed.
It's a long, long way from a boring Tour, and I've followed plenty of them. I genuinely never once believed that what will happen on Sunday was ever going to happen in my lifetime.
"Our aim is to win the Tour with a British rider by 2015" - Dave Brailsford, 2009
Oh, how we all laughed.
The laughing's over, respect is due.0 -
Regarding the respect sky deserve a conversation I had on twitter:
Daniel Friebe @friebos
Another corking presser from Wiggins. Pointed out that he hasn't had much praise for incredible season. He's quite right.
3h the Inner Ring @inrng
@friebos Perhaps he deserves some good write-ups but does he expect journalists to praise him during a press conference?
3h Daniel Friebe @friebos
@inrng Sky have invited negativity at times, borne brunt of it unfairly at others. Wiggins has done well to take rough with smooth.
Rick Chasey @RickChasey
@friebos @inrng They don't have an exterior that rewards praise somehow. Stuff like "we've trained for this' takes the sexiness out of it.
Daniel Friebe @friebos
@RickChasey @inrng You've nailed it.
That's why.
Anyway, I don't feel especially British, so maybe that's why I'm not keen
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Earthbound wrote:We really ought to stop calling them Sky and call them what they are, Team GB, all be it with some Aussies and Danes thrown in. But the approach, the professionalism, the attention to detail, the commitment, the determination, the planning, the execution, everything really, has evolved from Team GB. An approach to performance who's roots go back to Kean and Boardman in Barcelona 1992.
Yes, team GB where 3 of the riders are from GB (out of 9). 2 out of the 6 managers are British.
They're an international team.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I bloody love Sky. I love the way they have taken the sport apart analysed it, come up with the approach they think will win and executed it to perfection. Its almost un-British in its brilliance.
I like the fact that its not a plucky Brit underdog winning by some sort of upset or fluke. I love the fact that they have absolutely annihilated the competition.
Sorry for being patriotic- I appreciate its a lot cooler to like the cool Europeans. At least they are losing with panache.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Earthbound wrote:We really ought to stop calling them Sky and call them what they are, Team GB, all be it with some Aussies and Danes thrown in. But the approach, the professionalism, the attention to detail, the commitment, the determination, the planning, the execution, everything really, has evolved from Team GB. An approach to performance who's roots go back to Kean and Boardman in Barcelona 1992.
Yes, team GB where 3 of the riders are from GB (out of 9). 2 out of the 6 managers are British.
They're an international team.
Brit leader though.
S'better than sodding Rabo.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:iainf72 wrote:Earthbound wrote:We really ought to stop calling them Sky and call them what they are, Team GB, all be it with some Aussies and Danes thrown in. But the approach, the professionalism, the attention to detail, the commitment, the determination, the planning, the execution, everything really, has evolved from Team GB. An approach to performance who's roots go back to Kean and Boardman in Barcelona 1992.
Yes, team GB where 3 of the riders are from GB (out of 9). 2 out of the 6 managers are British.
They're an international team.
Brit leader though.
S'better than sodding Rabo.
Pffft, if Rabo were clever they'd just find someone good and claim their mum shared a joint with a dutch hippy in the 'dam, so they're basically dutch.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Poor fella'. Ongoing surgery in Toulouse and might not start tommorrow. Apparently the wound was that bad you could see the bones. Lost a lot of blood throughout the stage.
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Rick Chasey wrote:Regarding the respect sky deserve a conversation I had on twitter:
Daniel Friebe @friebos
Another corking presser from Wiggins. Pointed out that he hasn't had much praise for incredible season. He's quite right.
3h the Inner Ring @inrng
@friebos Perhaps he deserves some good write-ups but does he expect journalists to praise him during a press conference?
3h Daniel Friebe @friebos
@inrng Sky have invited negativity at times, borne brunt of it unfairly at others. Wiggins has done well to take rough with smooth.
Rick Chasey @RickChasey
@friebos @inrng They don't have an exterior that rewards praise somehow. Stuff like "we've trained for this' takes the sexiness out of it.
Daniel Friebe @friebos
@RickChasey @inrng You've nailed it.
That's why.
Anyway, I don't feel especially British, so maybe that's why I'm not keen.
Might this change a little after winning though... i think Sky have this monkey on their back with the whole 5 year plan. Thats why the same old lines are always trotted out. They have to repay this massive investment from Sky, so it is all numbers and targets at the moment. Maybe, after winning the Tour the pressure may be off a little and their outward persona may change a little... ?0 -
ThomThom wrote:Poor fella'. Ongoing surgery in Toulouse and might not start tommorrow. Apparently the wound was that bad you could see the bones. Lost a lot of blood througout the stage.
Would be so sad for him because he's ridden so well through this last week... this picture is what Pro Cycling is all about though. These guys, if they can, will ALWAYS ride on... What other sport do u get that in?
Riis losing his best rider again too.0 -
plectrum wrote:GentlemanBear wrote:plectrum wrote:GentlemanBear wrote:The worst thing for many seems to be that the champion-elect isn't even the best rider in the race, and that potentially, one of his domestiques, if given his head, would have swept all before him.
Apart from Brad being better at TT & better at descending? Not all about ascending.
I made an edit to make my intended meaning clearer - I agree with you 100%, I was paraphrasing the general mood of many - "Froome is better at steep bits that everyone loves to see the action on ergo he's the true champion".
Precisely although actually TT has been more important than climbing in ultimate victory be that Armastrong, Indurain, Evans or Contador. If it was all climbing Schlecky would be the most successful rider!
Will be interesting to see how Froome performs day after tomorrow as I felt his first TT was above expectation.
Froome put time into Wiggins in the '11 Vuelta though no? Half a minute over a similar distance if memory serves. A Wiggins victory silences the doubters as far as I'm concerned, Froome taking more than 30" gives them ammo.0 -
niblue wrote:I think only the most ardent Wiggo romanticist would argue that Froomey wasn't the best rider on that team now, and has essentially allowed Wiggins to win.
Froome has looked better a couple of times - but not 2 minutes better and that's what he'd need as Wiggins is clearly a better TTer. You'd have to be an idiot not to see that.
All this English self-hate seems very odd - we had exactly the same thing last year about Cavendish. Can't you just be happy that a British team has structured the even so that their top man (also a Brit) can win? Froome isn't even really a British rider so I can't quite see a patriotic reason to support him - especially as he's coming over as a bit of a d1ck at times.
The two minutes you're talking about are because he was held up behind crashes.
Anyway, we'll see on saturday. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Froome shade the TT by a couple of seconds. Obviously not two minutes but certainly close enough to leave the questions requiring answers.
Idiot.0 -
smithy21 wrote:I bloody love Sky. I love the way they have taken the sport apart analysed it, come up with the approach they think will win and executed it to perfection. Its almost un-British in its brilliance.
I like the fact that its not a plucky Brit underdog winning by some sort of upset or fluke. I love the fact that they have absolutely annihilated the competition.
Sorry for being patriotic- I appreciate its a lot cooler to like the cool Europeans. At least they are losing with panache.
:roll:
You obviously missed the bit about opinion. It's not about being 'cool', I don't know where this its 'cool' to not like sky thing came from, when actually its really simple, I just don't like Sky, whether it's cool or not. In the same way that some people don't like cheese. It is really not a difficult concept to understand.0 -
So I gave you my opinion. Not sure I see what your problem is- although having read the thread you clearly have one. :?0
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fastercyclist wrote:jim453 wrote:I think only the most ardent Wiggo romanticist would argue that Froomey wasn't the best rider on that team now, and has essentially allowed Wiggins to win.
You're seeing this in a very 2 dimensional way.
Froome has been able to drop Wiggins, but Wiggins has also been in a position to drop Froome several times. Also from watching them I have the feeling that if Froome gapped Wiggins we'd be talking seconds, other way around it'd be minutes especially over several days.
Lets watch the result of the last time trial before jumping to x is stronger then y. If Wiggins can prove he is stronger in both time trials then this talk about Froome just won't wash I'm sorry. Too many people overexcited about Froome. Wiggins is the deal and he has delivered.
YYYYEEESSSS ^^^^THis0 -
ThomThom wrote:Poor fella'. Ongoing surgery in Toulouse and might not start tommorrow. Apparently the wound was that bad you could see the bones. Lost a lot of blood througout the stage.
Damn that looks nasty. As to what happened:
@jensvoigt
Yes i saw Chris Anker Sörensen and all the blood on his hand, apparently got hand caught in the spokes of a wheel. Terrible thing to happen!Contador is the Greatest0 -
Jez mon wrote:ThomThom wrote:Poor fella'. Ongoing surgery in Toulouse and might not start tommorrow. Apparently the wound was that bad you could see the bones. Lost a lot of blood througout the stage.
Nasty. What actually happened to him?
Crashed, ended up catching his hand in his wheel I believe.0 -
RobbieHunter Robbie Hunter
Seems there is 2 "I"s in wIggIns & none if froome..RT @Njm75: @RobbieHunter No I in Team. Watch & learn #WigginsContador is the Greatest0 -
And regarding my father's sexiness...
You'd hope my mother found/finds him sexy, wouldn't you?
It'd be a prettty poor marriage otherwise...0 -
I don't like SKY as in the commercial organisation but the team they sponsor is the best in the world, if you accept the TdF is the pinnacle of cycling. The team have to be applauded for the way they have controlled the race, brilliant.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Jez mon wrote:ThomThom wrote:Poor fella'. Ongoing surgery in Toulouse and might not start tommorrow. Apparently the wound was that bad you could see the bones. Lost a lot of blood througout the stage.
Nasty. What actually happened to him?
Simone Stortoni dropped his newspaper right in front of him before the descent. Chris rode with 60 km/h and got the newspaper in his front wheel. Worried that it would affect his brakes and make him tumble over his handelbars with that speed he had to remove it quickly. While doing that he hit a small pothole and his fingers got right in the blender.0 -
I like Dan Martin shots after he crosses the lineContador is the Greatest0
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Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters
prevent Froome/Wiggo drama in the future?Establish equitable budget limits and active transfer market. Avoids talent"hoarding"by rich teamsContador is the Greatest0 -
ThomThom wrote:Jez mon wrote:ThomThom wrote:Poor fella'. Ongoing surgery in Toulouse and might not start tommorrow. Apparently the wound was that bad you could see the bones. Lost a lot of blood througout the stage.
Nasty. What actually happened to him?
Simone Stortoni dropped his newspaper right in front of him before the descent. Chris rode with 60 km/h and got the newspaper in his front wheel. Worried that it would affect his brakes and make him tumble over his handelbars with that speed he had to remove it quickly. While doing that he hit a small pothole and his fingers got right in the blender.
And still finished the stage...as Frenchie says. HEAVYWEIGHT!!You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Mark Cavendish @MarkCavendish
Thanks to the dickhead who crashed me at 3km to go today by waving his flag so it wrapped round my handlebars. Bike's broke. Leg's swollen.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Frank the tank wrote:I don't like SKY as in the commercial organisation but the team they sponsor is the best in the world, if you accept the TdF is the pinnacle of cycling. The team have to be applauded for the way they have controlled the race, brilliant.
Yep. Well done them. The US Postal jibes are hilarious, I'm sure, and Sky won't be too bothered if it means they achieve their target.
Good finds, FF.0
