Wiggins 2012 performance
Comments
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RichN95 wrote:
He's not even a doping doctor, let alone one of the biggest of all time. No-one's ever accused him of doping anyone - just that he would have been aware of doping going on.whiteboytrash wrote:
...and how are they overtly anti-doping? What? By hiring one of the biggest doping Doctors of all time? - Geert Leinders.
The way that some people have grossly exaggerated his role at Rabobank shows a rather pathetic desperation to find a doping story. After all there's nothing more repulsive to them than the idea than clean cyclists can win.
You're kidding me? Seriously? Humanplama? He was on trial in Holland for crying out loud!
He was Rasmussen's doctor shiesse!0 -
Sorry, I'm getting lost now. Who is Humanplama and why was he on trial?whiteboytrash wrote:You're kidding me? Seriously? Humanplama? He was on trial in Holland for crying out loud0 -
whiteboytrash wrote:
You're kidding me? Seriously? Humanplama? He was on trial in Holland for crying out loud!
He was Rasmussen's doctor shiesse!
I think you're a bit confusedFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I think the forum needs a 'connections' pictogram that explains all the people and relationships re doping - not sure how far you go back) as it appears that the accumulated knowledge isn't being passed along and wild misunderstanding (some of it wilful) is creeping out of the cracks.0
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jerry3571 wrote:Can we please get over the suggestion that Wiggo works and trains harder than anyone else as I heard that line for 7 years dating from 1999. Thanks.
Jerry
THis has been discussed elsewhere, and its not that he trains 'harder' or a lot more than other riders (although maybe that is the case during the winter months), its that how he trains is far more structured and focused on the things he needs to do to win races. Sky have an awful lot of money compared to other teams and have gone for the scientific approach, which is more effective than other riders, who have a personal coach and do what's been done for ages 'because thats the way they have always done it'.
I must say I'm looking forward to a performance today from the riders that is within the realms of achievable human physiology.
Edit: on the subject of team budgets I remember Harmon during the Giro said that Androni's team budget is about 2million euros or so, less than Gilbert's salary0 -
Over at the CN forums the conclusion from a lot of users is that Team Sky are on the sauce.
I find it hard to believe because surely that would mean Dave Brailsford had always been at it throughout his time with the Olympics teams. I mean why just start now and risk tarnishing all those olympic victories? It could also possibly implicate Chris Boardman as he was heavily involved in training Wiggins.
At the same time, it is kind of hard to believe in Froome especially. Don't get me wrong, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but there have been some eyebrow-raising performances. Time will tell I guess.0 -
Over at the CN forums the conclusion from a lot of users is that Team Sky are on the sauce.
I find it hard to believe because surely that would mean Dave Brailsford had always been at it throughout his time with the Olympics teams. I mean why just start now and risk tarnishing all those olympic victories? It could also possibly implicate Chris Boardman as he was heavily involved in training Wiggins.
At the same time, it is kind of hard to believe in Froome especially. Don't get me wrong, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but there have been some eyebrow-raising performances. Time will tell I guess.0 -
nickice wrote:Over at the CN forums the conclusion from a lot of users is that Team Sky are on the sauce.
I find it hard to believe because surely that would mean Dave Brailsford had always been at it throughout his time with the Olympics teams. I mean why just start now and risk tarnishing all those olympic victories? It could also possibly implicate Chris Boardman as he was heavily involved in training Wiggins.
At the same time, it is kind of hard to believe in Froome especially. Don't get me wrong, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but there have been some eyebrow-raising performances. Time will tell I guess.
Well according to this article their performances are within the realms of human physiology, so they arent 'unbelievable' performances, just very good performances.
THere is no way Boardman doped. Any involvement from Boardman surely just adds credence to the performances as non-saucy.0 -
MrTapir wrote:THis has been discussed elsewhere, and its not that he trains 'harder' or a lot more than other riders (although maybe that is the case during the winter months), its that how he trains is far more structured and focused on the things he needs to do to win races.
By contrast, read these comments from Mat Steinmetz regarding Andy Schlecks approach to time trials (posted on Slowtwitch):
"I think part of the problem, is that the help is in and out...like in my case. I made changes, but was not able to see them through. I'm biased, but I feel that I can help improve his TTing skills...However, so do many others. Who do you listen to? Andy listened to me enough to make big changes, but am I a familiar face to him? No. In steps someone Andy knows and trusts...they may or may not know what they are doing, but want to leave their mark on the problem. The position or technique changes again. Maybe Andy sticks with that...maybe it doesn't work and because he doesn't know what to do...reverts back to what he'd done in the past.
What needs to happen...is that someone who knows what they're doing. Someone who's not going to be scared to force change. Someone who can see it through and make the small adjustments along the way via rider feedback.
These changes were first made in December when we were out in Calpe for the first camp. Several weeks later, we went back to Spain for Radioshack's second camp. I asked Andy how the changes were and he said that he had not ridden his TT bike since. Therein lies part the problem. The TT position is an adaptable one. Ask anyone who rarely rides the position to go out and ride it for an hour and they'll come back complaining. Tell them to keep doing it and soon enough, those early complaints will be gone.
Mat Steinmetz"
By contrast, there is a local guy here (a good cyclist in his own right) who is chief physio at team sky. There was an interview with him in the local paper on the eve of the tour, and he said that he is one of only 3 full-time physios working in the pro tour. the other teams just rely on doctors. I took that as an indication of how seriously and scientifically sky take the whole approach to preparation, and that this is not necessarily repeated across all other teams.0 -
Brailsford talks about doctor
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-c ... ent-clean/
See, when you actually address an issue, the heat all goes out of it. If you don't, you just end up sounding like an arrogant knobFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I know I'm breaking my own rules, but given that so much assumption is posted about this I thought it needed a headline. It's a terribly written article but the Points are clear enough...
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-c ... ent-clean/
Edit - Damn and Blast your lightning fingers iain!!
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
iainf72 wrote:Brailsford talks about doctor
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-c ... ent-clean/
See, when you actually address an issue, the heat all goes out of it. If you don't, you just end up sounding like an arrogant knob
Quite.
As an aside, I'm beginning to really like Lionel Birnie.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:As an aside, I'm beginning to really like Lionel Birnie.
Lionel is a good egg. Does a good line of grumpiness from time to time.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:As an aside, I'm beginning to really like Lionel Birnie.
Lionel is a good egg. Does a good line of grumpiness from time to time.
His blog on the meals he eats and hotels he stays in following the Tour is HILARIOUS*
* if you like that kind of thing0 -
I often suspect that you actually are Lionel Birnie (even though you use your actual name. Or is Iain just an alter ego, Lionel?)iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:As an aside, I'm beginning to really like Lionel Birnie.
Lionel is a good egg. Does a good line of grumpiness from time to time.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Crozza wrote:
By contrast, read these comments from Mat Steinmetz regarding Andy Schlecks approach to time trials (posted on Slowtwitch):
"I think part of the problem, is that the help is in and out...like in my case. I made changes, but was not able to see them through. I'm biased, but I feel that I can help improve his TTing skills...However, so do many others. Who do you listen to? Andy listened to me enough to make big changes, but am I a familiar face to him? No. In steps someone Andy knows and trusts...they may or may not know what they are doing, but want to leave their mark on the problem. The position or technique changes again. Maybe Andy sticks with that...maybe it doesn't work and because he doesn't know what to do...reverts back to what he'd done in the past.
I think Andy would do well at Sky actually. What Wiggins was saying the other day about being in the TT and shane sutton (or sean yates cant remember) just encouraging him over the radio, this is probably what Andy needs, rather than having the Hog shouting at him, as if that is motivational.
P.s. this 'review your post in the light of other posts' can be infuriating, ive done this 4 times now0 -
Can't remember who it was, but I recall a rider talking about Manalo Saiz just screaming his head off into the radio for the whole of a long TT once and just thinking "I'm glad that's not me""In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
MrTapir wrote:nickice wrote:Over at the CN forums the conclusion from a lot of users is that Team Sky are on the sauce.
I find it hard to believe because surely that would mean Dave Brailsford had always been at it throughout his time with the Olympics teams. I mean why just start now and risk tarnishing all those olympic victories? It could also possibly implicate Chris Boardman as he was heavily involved in training Wiggins.
At the same time, it is kind of hard to believe in Froome especially. Don't get me wrong, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but there have been some eyebrow-raising performances. Time will tell I guess.
Well according to this article their performances are within the realms of human physiology, so they arent 'unbelievable' performances, just very good performances.
THere is no way Boardman doped. Any involvement from Boardman surely just adds credence to the performances as non-saucy.
Yes, that's what i was trying to get across (admittedly not very clearly). I don't believe Boardman doped at all. What I was saying was that there are two scenarios if they are doping:
1) Brailsford's olympians weren't doping for the olympics but team sky have started doping now. I find this unlikely as it would taint all previous olympic victories and would be a big risk to take. Additionally, if Brailsford has no qualms about doping now, why not do it then?
2) The olympic cyclists and team sky have always been doping. I also find this unlikely given that Boardman was involved and the stance that Wiggins has taken in his book, and in interviews, against doping.
There are people who read a lot into his now infamous outburst in the press conference the other day. They seem to think it shows that he has a guilty conscience or something. For me, that's kind of nonsense. I don't think he'd be that stupid if he was doping. If anything, the fact he got angry shows that he might be clean.0 -
Fundamentally, this whole issue is one of a classic human condition.
We assign more value and belief to the information that supports our own beliefs, and ignore/discount/devalue information - even provable facts - that contradict our beliefs. However, intelligent we are, however "evenly balanced" we all think we are, we all do it to a certain extent.
Me? Wiggins/Froome clean, LA dirty.
Why? cos fundamentally I like Wiggins, always have, and I admire Brailsford - Froome gets a free pass through association. LA seems like a massive cock (no, I haven't met him Dennis, but we all form opinions, even through what we read in papers or on t'interwebz). The guy is a Texan so I probably have an in built prejudice against him for that. (I never said any of this was necessarily rational)
This makes it much more likely that when I read about Wiggins' power being within the realms of possibilty, I will assign more belief to that, and will also gobble up Bernies graph or Ashenden's comments.
I'm a trained science teacher, and we go through the process of teaching kids a (very) idealised idea of the scientific method - including evaluating the reliability of evidence - but the truth is science (and other subjects where research is carried out) is a social construct, conducted by humans, and isn't as pure as we like - Even intelligent, well balanced humans have prejudices which means they weigh evidence differently from others.
Or ignore it! I studied some History and Philosophy of Science at Uni, and I always remember a page from Coulombs notebook from his experiments on the charge on an electron. One day, he got conflicting results - who knows why? weather conditions? mistake? - and he just wrote in the margin along the lines of: "hmm, these are crap, I'll just ignore them"!!0 -
MrTapir wrote:jerry3571 wrote:Can we please get over the suggestion that Wiggo works and trains harder than anyone else as I heard that line for 7 years dating from 1999. Thanks.
Jerry
THis has been discussed elsewhere, and its not that he trains 'harder' or a lot more than other riders (although maybe that is the case during the winter months), its that how he trains is far more structured and focused on the things he needs to do to win races. Sky have an awful lot of money compared to other teams and have gone for the scientific approach, which is more effective than other riders, who have a personal coach and do what's been done for ages 'because thats the way they have always done it'.
I must say I'm looking forward to a performance today from the riders that is within the realms of achievable human physiology.
Edit: on the subject of team budgets I remember Harmon during the Giro said that Androni's team budget is about 2million euros or so, less than Gilbert's salary
Not to forget the connections and innovations that British Cycling has access to through it's links with UK Sport. There have been/are various projects with the likes of BAe Systems and McLaren F1 to develop training aids and the like, all of which the likes of Wiggins, Froome et al will have access to. Some of this stuff we do see, for example the TT skin suit. But some of it we don't (unless we look really really hard).........0 -
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The problem with Kimmage is that he demands the moon on a stick from everyone he interviews and if he doesn't get it he sticks the knife in. He's from the Jeremy Kyle "cry or I'll f*** you up" school of journalism, just more high brow.
He's had it in for Wiggins since they had a row about posing for photos in 2010.Twitter: @RichN950
