Wiggins 2012 performance

prawny

On the subject of Wiggins training harder than the others, obviouly I can only go by what's in the media, but It's been reported that Wiggins has only been at home 6 weeks this year (readings his and Cath's tweets I can belive it) and missed his kids boirthdays where as Cadel and his Mrs have adopted a baby, I would have thought that would point to Wiggo putting more effort in, I know that when my kids were born I spend less time training and more time getting screeched at, I don't think Cadel's head is fully in the game compared to last year.

Nibbles I don't think is quuite in the same league, promising yes, but not up there with the big boys.

Still I think if this was the Giro Wiggo would be 4th or lower. The course suits him this year so they're going for it.

I'd put money on him NOT doing the double next year.

Pross

dsoutar wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Re the Sky and the money thing, its part of what I don't like. Their riders are privileged. Yes it goes to show what can be achieved with funds, organistation and focus etc but I don't like them having that advantage. Yes some teams had more than others in the past, but I feel that Sky are a league apart and nothing this sport has seen before.

Cavendish obviously doesn't think so judging by his latest tweet: "My hotel room for the rest day has 1 electrical socket and a plastic chair. I shall say no more on this matter"

I think it's the Tour organisers that sort out hotels. When they are in rural areas the choice is pretty small for the amount of people needing accommodation so they end up in some crap places. That's why Sky started taking their own mattresses.

Yellow Peril

Pross wrote:

dsoutar wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Re the Sky and the money thing, its part of what I don't like. Their riders are privileged. Yes it goes to show what can be achieved with funds, organistation and focus etc but I don't like them having that advantage. Yes some teams had more than others in the past, but I feel that Sky are a league apart and nothing this sport has seen before.

Cavendish obviously doesn't think so judging by his latest tweet: "My hotel room for the rest day has 1 electrical socket and a plastic chair. I shall say no more on this matter"

I think it's the Tour organisers that sort out hotels. When they are in rural areas the choice is pretty small for the amount of people needing accommodation so they end up in some crap places. That's why Sky started taking their own mattresses.

Do you think Bernie is having to do all of the standing up?

graeme_s-2

I feel that given the BC link, and Brailsford's success with the track team, it would be unlikely for Sky to be running a team wide doping programme. It would taint every success Brailsford has had with BC going back to the early 2000s, and would quite likely result in them losing their lottery funding.

I also feel that it would be unlikely that individual cyclists at Sky could get away with doping by themselves, without the team knowing, especially given the way the team's coaches are working so closely with the riders and monitoring their numbers throughout the season.

The old model of signing a rider, giving them a logoed up bike and jersey at a winter training camp and then seeing them at the first race of the year obviously leaves huge room for improvement. I expect we'll see the other pro teams take similar approaches to Sky over the coming years.

I think it's interesting that when Sky launched, and said they were going to bring their own approach to pro cycling which they thought would allow them to be successful, they were openly mocked. Now they are harvesting the fruits of their labour people are queueing up to point the finger and yell "doping". They're doing exactly what they said they would do 3 years ago, and replicating BC's success on the track. Should we really be that surprised?

It wasn't luck that in 2008 the best track cyclists in virtually every discipline were British. BC had systematically identified excellent athletes and developed them into world beaters. That's exactly what they're doing on the road now with Sky.

dave_1

However Nibali who;s been ringside so to speak, seems unsure who is best out of Froome and Brad

"They certainly did a great time trial, but Wiggins showed he had something more today. Although, the other day on the climb, Froome showed that he had a little bit more, so we'll have to see how they and Sky manage themselves."

frenchfighter

Odd combo on the Sky training ride today

prawny

frenchfighter wrote:

Getty

Legwarmers and bare Arms?! FAIL!

frenchfighter

Check. Nice Sidis though.

Yellow Peril

Dave_1 wrote:

However Nibali who;s been ringside so to speak, seems unsure who is best out of Froome and Brad

"They certainly did a great time trial, but Wiggins showed he had something more today. Although, the other day on the climb, Froome showed that he had a little bit more, so we'll have to see how they and Sky manage themselves."

If Nibs or A.N. Other attack on one of the climbs then Froome will have to go with him, no? I guess that would be the point at which Froome's climbing ability over Brad (if he has that ability on all gradients and not just the 20%er's) will be seen?

prawny

Hmm, blue is a bit light though, Astana contract in the wings?

heavy_rat

Graeme_S wrote:

I feel that given the BC link, and Brailsford's success with the track team, it would be unlikely for Sky to be running a team wide doping programme. It would taint every success Brailsford has had with BC going back to the early 2000s, and would quite likely result in them losing their lottery funding.

I also feel that it would be unlikely that individual cyclists at Sky could get away with doping by themselves, without the team knowing, especially given the way the team's coaches are working so closely with the riders and monitoring their numbers throughout the season.

The old model of signing a rider, giving them a logoed up bike and jersey at a winter training camp and then seeing them at the first race of the year obviously leaves huge room for improvement. I expect we'll see the other pro teams take similar approaches to Sky over the coming years.

I think it's interesting that when Sky launched, and said they were going to bring their own approach to pro cycling which they thought would allow them to be successful, they were openly mocked. Now they are harvesting the fruits of their labour people are queueing up to point the finger and yell "doping". They're doing exactly what they said they would do 3 years ago, and replicating BC's success on the track. Should we really be that surprised?

It wasn't luck that in 2008 the best track cyclists in virtually every discipline were British. BC had systematically identified excellent athletes and developed them into world beaters. That's exactly what they're doing on the road now with Sky.

good post that

Monty Zoncolan

Pross wrote:

dsoutar wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Re the Sky and the money thing, its part of what I don't like. Their riders are privileged. Yes it goes to show what can be achieved with funds, organistation and focus etc but I don't like them having that advantage. Yes some teams had more than others in the past, but I feel that Sky are a league apart and nothing this sport has seen before.

Cavendish obviously doesn't think so judging by his latest tweet: "My hotel room for the rest day has 1 electrical socket and a plastic chair. I shall say no more on this matter"

I think it's the Tour organisers that sort out hotels. When they are in rural areas the choice is pretty small for the amount of people needing accommodation so they end up in some crap places. That's why Sky started taking their own mattresses.

My understanding also. In the 'On Tour' book that Scott Mitchell did with Wiggins 2 years ago, they said that the race organisers dictate which hotel each team stays in on each day. An effort is allegedly made to even out the inevitable daily variance in luxury over the course of the three weeks, with many riders inevitably grumbling that they get the inferior hotels more than other teams.

iainf72

Stanley222 wrote:

It's a bit sad when a cyclist does well that people think he must be a cheat!

May I introduce you to the last 2 decades of cycling :P

I agree its sad though

calvjones

Stanley222 wrote:

It's a bit sad when a cyclist does well that people think he must be a cheat!

It's even sadder that when (road) cyclists have done well, they've usually been cheating.

calvjones

iainf72 wrote:

Stanley222 wrote:

It's a bit sad when a cyclist does well that people think he must be a cheat!

May I introduce you to the last 2 decades of cycling :P

I agree its sad though

oooh you and your nimble fingers iain!

rick_chasey

You get less chat for classics dominance, on the whole.

There are obvious exceptions, motors being a big one, but by and large, doping scandals and accusations start occuring mid-May beginning of June.

calvjones

Rick Chasey wrote:

You get less chat for classics dominance, on the whole.

There are obvious exceptions, motors being a big one, but by and large, doping scandals and accusations start occuring mid-May beginning of June.

Despite the fact that the hilly classics at least are almost invariably won by dopers.

rick_chasey

calvjones wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

You get less chat for classics dominance, on the whole.

There are obvious exceptions, motors being a big one, but by and large, doping scandals and accusations start occuring mid-May beginning of June.

Despite the fact that the hilly classics at least are almost invariably won by dopers.

Yup.

And early '00 flat ones too. Not to mention the late '90s....

Even the police time their raids for a rest day in the Tour.

In fairness, we're all too excited about the racing in classics to worry about le dopage.

The Tour is so dull we've got days to mull over 'epic' performances before the next one. The fact it's 3 weeks amplifies the differences between the weak and the strong too.

Yellow Peril

Rick Chasey wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

You get less chat for classics dominance, on the whole.

There are obvious exceptions, motors being a big one, but by and large, doping scandals and accusations start occuring mid-May beginning of June.

Despite the fact that the hilly classics at least are almost invariably won by dopers.

Yup.

And early '00 flat ones too. Not to mention the late '90s....

Even the police time their raids for a rest day in the Tour.

In fairness, we're all too excited about the racing in classics to worry about le dopage.

The Tour is so dull we've got days to mull over 'epic' performances before the next one. The fact it's 3 weeks amplifies the differences between the weak and the strong too.

and ...er...Boonen's P-R victory didn't?

rick_chasey

Yellow Peril wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

You get less chat for classics dominance, on the whole.

There are obvious exceptions, motors being a big one, but by and large, doping scandals and accusations start occuring mid-May beginning of June.

Despite the fact that the hilly classics at least are almost invariably won by dopers.

Yup.

And early '00 flat ones too. Not to mention the late '90s....

Even the police time their raids for a rest day in the Tour.

In fairness, we're all too excited about the racing in classics to worry about le dopage.

The Tour is so dull we've got days to mull over 'epic' performances before the next one. The fact it's 3 weeks amplifies the differences between the weak and the strong too.

and ...er...Boonen's P-R victory didn't?

In Classics the slower rivals get called 3rd and 4th rate riders, rather than clean .

Yellow Peril

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

You get less chat for classics dominance, on the whole.

There are obvious exceptions, motors being a big one, but by and large, doping scandals and accusations start occuring mid-May beginning of June.

Despite the fact that the hilly classics at least are almost invariably won by dopers.

Yup.

And early '00 flat ones too. Not to mention the late '90s....

Even the police time their raids for a rest day in the Tour.

In fairness, we're all too excited about the racing in classics to worry about le dopage.

The Tour is so dull we've got days to mull over 'epic' performances before the next one. The fact it's 3 weeks amplifies the differences between the weak and the strong too.

and ...er...Boonen's P-R victory didn't?

In Classics the slower rivals get called 3rd and 4th rate riders, rather than clean .

Ah....

rick_chasey

Seriously. Classics are so much more about the tactics and the racing on the day, that the doping takes a back stage. They're no more or less clean.

The Tour is so much more basic re-racing on a day-to-day level that things like doping appear more obvious, since ultimately the stronger always come foward since the 3 weeks smooths out the more chance-related tactics/mechanical elements.

Also, it's tough to bust riders half way through a 1 day race.

Yellow Peril

Rick Chasey wrote:

Seriously. Classics are so much more about the tactics and the racing on the day, that the doping takes a back stage. They're no more or less clean.

The Tour is so much more basic re-racing on a day-to-day level that things like doping appear more obvious, since ultimately the stronger always come foward since the 3 weeks smooths out the more chance-related tactics/mechanical elements.

Also, it's tough to bust riders half way through a 1 day race.

Now you're just bigging up your boy. You're missing him from the Tour aren't you?

ddraver

This is one of the reasons why I hope beyond all hope that sky are clean - http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_ur ... 4m08&gl=NL

slim_boy_fat

ddraver wrote:

This is one of the reasons why I hope beyond all hope that sky are clean - http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_ur ... 4m08&gl=NL

That's all kinds of awesome! Love the TT helmet.

MrTapir

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

ddraver wrote:

This is one of the reasons why I hope beyond all hope that sky are clean - http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_ur ... 4m08&gl=NL

That's all kinds of awesome! Love the TT helmet.

The UCI wouldn't look too kindly on those aero fins though.

jerry3571

Can we please get over the suggestion that Wiggo works and trains harder than anyone else as I heard that line for 7 years dating from 1999. Thanks.

Jerry

ddraver

As long as your happy to replace harder with better....

sagalout

I find it very easy to believe that Wiggins has trained harder (or at least more focussed) than his competition. The Schlecks have been poor all year and it's been obvious that Evans hasn't been in quite as good a shape as last year, due to illness etc. Take Contador out of the equation, chuck in some long TT's and all the stars start to align. I for one couldn't be happier for him, and for cycling in this country.

None of this is a massive surprise. I remember going to the Manchester velodrome last may (2011) and the BC coach telling us then to put a tenner on wiggins for the tour, because the amount of work he was doing and the numbers he was producing were so impressive. We all laughed it off at time.....until he won the Dauphine. I honestly think he'd have pushed quite lose last year - podium for sure.

I also believe Armstrong trained harder than his contemporaries. Whatever you think of the guy, and whatever else may or may not have been contributing to his performance, he never turned up to a tour with a belly, and as his competition were definitely on the juice at the time, he still had to be in incredible shape to win.

jerry3571

As we are finding out now with the USDA stuff, it's not always what you know but who you know which pays dividens. The wheels within wheels is where the truth lies.
As with Politicians, Heads of Banks and heads of Churches; being on the wrong side gets you ahead of the curve.
This is all a bit like the old LA Fanboy days and look where that got us.
Enjoy the race for the racing and not for the riders. Don't forget, Fanboys get hurt. (FF knows that one)

Jerry