Tdf Stage 3 *Spoiler*

RichN95.

Yellow Peril wrote:

Sagan is turning out to be the rider I and perhaps others thought EBH would be a couplke of years ago. I don't think he has had that much luck in his career. In the National Sports Centre in Douglas there is a photo of Johnny Bellis crossing the line for his bronze medal in the U23 Worlds a few years ago, I think Velits won but just behind a raised fist Johnny is EBH lying on the floor like a sleeping policeman a few yards from the line. I'm not sure if he was in contention to medal but it just sums him up as someone becoming a nearly man.

Judge for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzeI6vhsaVw

jerry3571

Wiggins seems to be really clumsy and loses the odd bits of time to his main rivals. Most races he sits back and comes in 10th place or worse, on finishes like today. I've seen him lose time on a lot of races where he's not attentive enough.
He shouldn't have been delayed today as he should have been stuck to Evans' wheel. Evans didn't have the problem as he rode like a GC should; at the front. Time lost by splits and near accidents is where Wiggos loses time. Does my nut!!
:x

Jerry

DeadCalm

Jens so has a sense of perspective...

Jens Voigt ‏@thejensie
Some stats from todays stage.Max speed 82,3km/h, average 41km/h, max Watts 1230 average 275Watts.and 5250calories burned. A lot of cookies!!

brettjmcc

Inrng just Tweeted

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng
Whilst everyone wowed at Sagan yesterday, watch Freire's headbutt at 2m22s http://youtu.be/qhuOIizPhgY and how Vacansoleil-DCM's Marcato goes down

I wonder if he'll get punished if that's the case, and if not how Renshaw will feel about it

Pross

Watching the highlights last night I'm sure I saw Greipel still there at the start of the sprint. Were my eyes deceiving me? If not that was quite an impressive ride considering he used to get dropped at the sight of a hump backed bridge.

LangerDan

Pross wrote:

Watching the highlights last night I'm sure I saw Greipel still there at the start of the sprint. Were my eyes deceiving me? If not that was quite an impressive ride considering he used to get dropped at the sight of a hump backed bridge.

Didn't see but it could well have been - he was given the same @ 1 second time as the likes of Levi, Chavanel, Freire etc.

emadden

Pross wrote:

But what was the point of him not stopping? He wasn't going to win the stage but equally without the crash he wouldn't have lost any time. How is that abusing the rule in any way? Even the riders not affected directly by the crash would have struggled to get their momentum back on a hill like that having slowed to avoid the carnage and it's not only Wiggins that 'benefitted' so why single him out?

Not singling him out, but as he is the main GC contender we are entitled to look at his actions. There were guys 5, 10 seconds behind Wiggins on that climb, climbing in the following cars, who finished 40 seconds ahead of him, yet, he gets a better stage time for an incident that didnt involve him and one he could have avoided with his eyes closed. The crash, which wasnt big, was quite a bit ahead of him - I counted three seconds from the time of the crash until Wiggins reached the scene - and Wiggans was at the back of the group and could see up the road... You can see it very clearly here(where you can also see about ten riders, all in front of Wiggins, riding around the crash):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhuOIizPhgY Crash as 2:23 - Wiggins, one of the last to arrive and "clip out" at 2:26.

I cant see how he dropped his chain... unless of course he duffed up a change from the big to the small ring when he decided to take it easy, which of course he is known to do

frenchfighter

brettjmcc wrote:

Inrng just Tweeted

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng
Whilst everyone wowed at Sagan yesterday, watch Freire's headbutt at 2m22s http://youtu.be/qhuOIizPhgY and how Vacansoleil-DCM's Marcato goes down

I wonder if he'll get punished if that's the case, and if not how Renshaw will feel about it

Hmm. If you watch the overhead it is different. They are leaning onto Freire so I guess he just leans that way to keep his balance. Defo not a headbutt.

frenchfighter

Dan Martin lost 5 mins..........

Westra, Kern and Voeckler lost 7 mins............

Cobo lost 10 mins..............................

frenchfighter

...

LangerDan

frenchfighter wrote:

Dan Martin lost 5 mins..........

Westra, Kern and Voeckler lost 7 mins............

Cobo lost 10 mins..............................

Martin isn't part of Garmin's GC plan. Both he and Vaughters have said earlier in the season that the goal for the Tour is a stage win and possibly the KOM. Unless he's 10+ minutes down on GC by the mountains, he's not going to be allowed away so there wasn't any great incentive to chase back after the crashes.

Tom BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItBV9CVJEoo

Video of Sagan showing some nice bike handling skills on a mtb

frenchfighter

LangerDan wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Dan Martin lost 5 mins..........

Westra, Kern and Voeckler lost 7 mins............

Cobo lost 10 mins..............................

Martin isn't part of Garmin's GC plan. Both he and Vaughters have said earlier in the season that the goal for the Tour is a stage win and possibly the KOM. Unless he's 10+ minutes down on GC by the mountains, he's not going to be allowed away so there wasn't any great incentive to chase back after the crashes.

Fair enough. I would massively prefer him to stage hunt and go KOM. The thing however is that he was chasing with CVV who finished 3mins in front of him.

emadden

Yeah I was wondering where he went to. Saw him driving with CVV and then he was gone... He did look like he was busting a nut, so I guess he blew... But losing 30 or 40 mins wont harm him in any KOM bid... We'll know his intentions soon enough !

emadden

Sorry, but to return to the final KM issue....

The following are the UCIs rules

2.6.027 In the case of a duly noted fall, puncture or mechanical incident in the last three kilometers of a
road race stage, the rider or riders involved shall be credited with the time of the rider or riders in
whose company they were riding at the moment of the accident. His or their placing shall be determined
by the order in which he or they actually cross the finishing line.
If, as the result of a duly noted fall in the last three kilometers, a rider cannot cross the finishing line, he
shall be placed last in the stage and credited with the time of the rider or riders in whose company he
was riding at the time of the accident.
(text modified on 1.01.05; 1.10.11; 1.02.12).

The emphasis is mine, but highlights that the rules require the rider to have been involved in the "fall, puncture or mechanical incident". Define "involved" however you wish, but it is clear that this provision is not a "blanket" protection. Note: The terminology used does not state "all riders in the group in which the [incident] occurred are given the same time", the protection is explicitly limited. I also believe that a rider who can genuinely avoid an incident, but chooses not to, is not within the contemplation of this provision.

As for the other issue about whether the 3km rule applies on a hill - its seems that that is up to the Commissaires

2.6.029 Articles 2.6.027 and 2.6.028 shall not apply where the finish is at the top of a hill-climb, except if
the incident occurs before the climb. Every discussion regarding the qualifications «at the top of a
hill-climb» and «before the climb» will be decided by the commissaires panel.

Article 20 of the Tour de France rules are very similar to Article 2.6.027 of the UCI Rules:

En cas de chute, de crevaison ou d’incident mécanique, dûment constaté, dans les 3 derniers kilomètres, le ou les coureurs accidentés sont crédités du temps du ou des coureurs en compagnie du ou desquels ils se trouvaient au moment de l’incident

i.e. the "rider or riders affected/casualtied" .. again not a blanket.

ddraver

So your problem is what does involved mean? It would appear that that was answered yesterday, it means held up or other wise negatively affected by an incident in the last 3km...

Simples. Can we move on now?

emadden

No, my problem is the mis-application of the rule to non-deserving riders and how it can be abused - Simples. I know exactly what "involved" means, and who the "coureurs accidentés" are

All the above was to clarify the exact rule as Im sure many people who have responded to my earlier comment havent even read the rule before - and hence have the erroneous belief that everybody and their mother are protected. That is all .

DeadCalm

emadden wrote:

No, my problem is the mis-application of the rule to non-deserving riders and how it can be abused - Simples. I know exactly what "involved" means, and who the "coureurs accidentés" are

All the above was to clarify the exact rule as Im sure many people who have responded to my earlier comment havent even read the rule before - and hence have the erroneous belief that everybody and their mother are protected. That is all .

The crash was on the side of the road that Wiggins was on. Other than swerving dangerously to his right or making some miraculous leap over the prone riders, what exactly did you expect Wiggins to do but stop?

graeme_s-2

DeadCalm wrote:

The crash was on the side of the road that Wiggins was on. Other than swerving dangerously to his right or making some miraculous leap over the prone riders, what exactly did you expect Wiggins to do but stop?

And that's exactly why the rule covers riders held up by the crash even if they didn't actually crash. The last thing you want is riders racing each other to get round an accident, it would just result in further crashes.

richard wants a baum

Wiggins could have avoided that crash easily riders ahead of him did he rode straight for it , he made the rule work for him so far enough the question is why was he so far back ?

ddraver

Top 20 from 180 riders? hardly far back....

Calder

richard wants a baum wrote:

Wiggins could have avoided that crash easily riders ahead of him did he rode straight for it , he made the rule work for him so far enough the question is why was he so far back ?

Shut up. You're just seeing what you want to see.

oldwelshman

too many trolls on this post

richard wants a baum

? :shock:

greasedscotsman

My vid from stage 3, about 300m to go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHMeLbSy6o