2012 Tour De France Spolier Thread

clarkey cat

as far as I can see he is a great captain - granting, or trying to deliver, stage wins for his team. If you're a domestique presumably you'll bust your balls for your skipper if you think you'll bag a stage win in the process - which keeps the pace high and keeps Wiggo up the front. WIN. WIN.

twist83

I see on Twitter two members of Katusha (Gusev & Cofidis) have crashed into Barbed Wire. Zingle back on bike but not sure about Gusev. Also Horner fell into the Ravine off Aubisque but is ok!!!

DonDaddyD

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I get the point: we want our sporting heroes to be consistently and obviously exerting their dominance over the opposition, but time trials don't quite have the same f*ck-you-lot style as beating your opponents across the line.

This is why I like Cav and why I liked that Contador rode off from Armstrong and co in 2009. It's why Lance Armstrong's alpe d'huez 'look' was such a moment. Real hunger takes no prisoners. What has Wiggins given us as a memory, which I admit sounds ridiculous as he will likely become the first British TDF winner, but still. What moment in this tour will I remember, probably that Froome was held back.

Obviously the TDF is not about that. It's about being the strongest all-rounder after three weeks, and you've got to admire Wiggo for what he's doing.

I disagree, I think the Tour is about that. Even if it is that one single climb, descent or stage. Schleck's chain coming off and Contador attacking is exactly about that. Even Cadel last year rode hard and into the wind dropping Contador on the way. In some ways apart from the TT I feel like Wiggins has coasted into the win.

It was great to see him powering away to lead out EBH the other day, though, and I wonder if he will attempt to silence those who keep banging on about Froome being the stronger rider once it's in the bag. Tomorrow maybe?

It was and for him I hope so.

daviesee

I'm sure Dave Brailsford will pass on your concerns :roll:

Bikequin

DonDaddyD wrote:

This is why I like Cav and why I liked that Contador rode off from Armstrong and co in 2009. It's why Lance Armstrong's alpe d'huez 'look' was such a moment. Real hunger takes no prisoners. What has Wiggins given us as a memory, which I admit sounds ridiculous as he will likely become the first British TDF winner, but still. What moment in this tour will I remember, probably that Froome was held back.

What's to say Froome has been held back that much? He had one spurt away from Wiggins at a time when Wiggins wasn't expecting an attack and also knew full well he didn't have to follow given that Froome would be called back. That's not to mention that Froome was almost off the back of the leaders a couple of KM earlier, he could easily got 500m up the road hit the red zone and been toast for the rest of the climb.

Why should Wiggins attack? He's there to win the tour - if he keeps doing what he's done so far then he will win the tour.

And as for saying that Cav doesn't have any form on the back of what we've seen, that's just daft and probably puts the comments above into some context.

MonkeyMonster

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

but he must surely have the sportsman's desire to say "F*ck you and watch this!" just itching to come out. Surely?

and we'll see that in the TT

daviesee

Go Tommy!

rjsterry

Well, Basso is making Sky work for it this afternoon: just Wiggins, Froome & Porte left in the bunch, others having been shelled out the back.

suzyb

Anyone else think it's a little sad seeing so many police on the mountains. It's perhaps time there was some kind of crowd control and given the sabotage they are definitely needed this year but it's still a little sad.

rick_chasey

suzyb wrote:

Anyone else think it's a little sad seeing so many police on the mountains. It's perhaps time there was some kind of crowd control and given the sabotage they are definitely needed this year but it's still a little sad.

That's standard for big crowds nowadays in the Tour.

daviesee

rjsterry wrote:

Well, Basso is making Sky work for it this afternoon: just Wiggins, Froome & Porte left in the bunch, others having been shelled out the back.

Yeah, Brads having a really easy time of it. Isn't he.

rjsterry

Nibbles is still there, but Evans seems to have blown it: another minutes down if I read that right.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Nibbles is still there, but Evans seems to have blown it: another minutes down if I read that right.

8.05 down on GC i believe.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Nibbles is still there, but Evans seems to have blown it: another minutes down if I read that right.

8.05 down on GC i believe.

I meant to say another 4 minutes, but I spilt tea on my keyboard a while back and the 4 only works intermittently.

clarkey cat

good atmos in LMNH today again - I think I must be Tommy's lucky charm.

There was a guy in a skin-coloured skin suit - with a fig leaf covering his nether regions though... bit weird.

Lots of tweed rapha cycling caps on show. Need to get me one.

daviesee

Strange - Saturday night out and 4 guys come in dressed in full tweeds, caps, brogues and smoking pipes.
They appeared to be serious.
As I said - Strange.

Must be one of those fashion things about which I know nowt.

First.Aspect

Is it less of a good story when Wiggins chased down attacks than when Froome unexpectedly launches one? Or just bad journalism? I make that twice now that Froome has nearly cracked and waved Wiggo through. Boardman spotted it and said, and I quote, "Perhaps people are reading a little bit too much into 100m of the tour."

Quite.

And DDD, Wiggins has won a stage, brilliantly. Grand tours have been won with fewer stage wins. Today was very, very good. In the history of cycling, its never been close to this good if you are British and may never be again. Tours have been won by better cyclists from other countries, and worse cyclists from other countries. Do they all whinge about HOW they were won, or against who? Will the British only be satisifed if Wiggins goes back in time and beats a field including Hinault, Merckx, Anqueteil, Lemond, Contador, Indurain and Armsrong, without any team mates? FFS.

I think we should all be more Australian and actually enjoy some success. All this whinging really piss3s me off.

cjcp

@DDD - are you watching re-runs of 2010 or are you tuning into this year's edition?

You know these climbs are a bit long and, in some cases, a bit steep, right? Not everyone can say, "Right, time to go. You comin'?" as they look back on their opponents. Most mortals are asking themselves if it's possible to unstitch their @rses so they can breathe a bit more.

Wiggins has done an outstanding job. So far, he hasn't lost a single second to his GC rivals in the mountains, and only Nibali finished with him and Froome today. Look at the guys they dropped.

As for the memories Wiggins has given us: pedalling around France for 10 days in a bright yellow jersey for starters. And loads more.

You're still in outer space, aren't you?

jonny_trousers

Awesome day on the Wiggo & Froome show!

jonny_trousers

Ps. Didn't the bikes look nice with low profile rims?

DonDaddyD

Stage 10 was good. Really good.

First Aspect, if a Brit wins it'll be great for the Country. I don't really care how people from other Countries or this Country celebrate or criticise 'their' riders. Also the Tour de France is a team race not one defined by nationality...

CJCP, I actually kinda agree.

It's just that the way Wiggins has won it seems a little boring a little lacking competitiveness or THAT great battle. IMO. I like to romancitise Le Tour, Wiggins win seems too clinical. Like a wind tunnel designed car vs something hand sculptured by natures virgins.

ANYWAY, he showed great strength on stage 10. Props where its due.

rick_chasey

Bemoaning the lack of panache from a Tour winner who does the winning in the TTs and defends in the mountains is almost as old as the Tour itself.

If you want to watch attacking in big steep mountains, where the winner is he who is best in the mountains, you're watching the wrong race.

(hint: It's in Italy).

bigmat

Rick Chasey wrote:

If you want to watch attacking in big steep mountains, where the winner is he who isn't good enough to beat the best time triallists at the Tour - let alone the best climbers - in the mountains, you're watching the wrong race.

(hint: It's in Italy).

FTFY. Bertie is a recent exception, but then he was an exceptional case.

daviesee

Rick Chasey wrote:

Bemoaning the lack of panache from a Tour winner who does the winning in the TTs and defends in the mountains is almost as old as the Tour itself.

If you want to watch attacking in big steep mountains, where the winner is he who is best in the mountains, you're watching the wrong race.

(hint: It's in Italy).

+1
The Giro is usually a far more interesting race. Take Nationalism out of it and this could be a boring race.
For winners, showing off is way down the priority list and usually only done once the win is as good as guaranteed.
A crash on Sunday and Brad's efforts could be wiped out. He'll be playing it safe.

Kieran_Burns

Bloody hell DDD- you don't half spout some rubbish sometimes.

rick_chasey

BigMat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

If you want to watch attacking in big steep mountains, where the winner is he who isn't good enough to beat the best time triallists at the Tour - let alone the best climbers - in the mountains, you're watching the wrong race.

(hint: It's in Italy).

FTFY. Bertie is a recent exception, but then he was an exceptional case.

By and large better quality racing though - and the mountain stages are certainly more 'epic'.

The Tour has always been TT heavy.

bigmat

Rick Chasey wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

If you want to watch attacking in big steep mountains, where the winner is he who isn't good enough to beat the best time triallists at the Tour - let alone the best climbers - in the mountains, you're watching the wrong race.

(hint: It's in Italy).

FTFY. Bertie is a recent exception, but then he was an exceptional case.

By and large better quality racing though - and the mountain stages are certainly more 'epic'.

The Tour has always been TT heavy.

I kind of agree, but then if the same field that rode the tour rode the Giro, would it really be that different? e.g. is it the parcours that makes the difference, or the level of the competition? This year's route has been a bit of a dud I must admit, but I'll have no complaints if Wiggo can finish it off.

rick_chasey

I think with the Giro

a) coming 7th isn't important in the Giro. It is in the Tour so you avoid the risk averse racing you get in the Tour

b) the Giro routes often provide more opportunities to gain and lose time on GC. They are also more varied and often more interesting - with well placed hills and mountains.

c) The route attracts many more pure climbers, who, given the route, get to mix it up in the overall, so they can liven up mountain stages.

Of course, there are always variations from year to year, and the 2011 Giro was a dud, but by and large it's better racing.

For sure, its' not on the same level as the Tour, but it's high enough that you don't notice that too much.

Cycling's not quite like football in the sense that high quality cycling is basically the same as low quality, only with faster cycling, rather than demonstrating whole new levels of skill.

jedster

What DDD and others seem to be asking for is for Sky to take totally unnecessary risks in order to put on more of a show. Top level professional sport is about winnning - this isn't an exhibition match.

Asking Brad to go hyper aggressive is like being 2-0 up in the WC final and taking off a couple of defenders and throwing on attacking players or having a day to knock off a hundred to win the Ashes and deciding to do it in sixes. It might be entertaining but its not what sport is really about.

BTW - is anybody REALLY still sure that Froome is stronger than Wiggins. I've not seen enough to call it one way or another - thought Brad looked comfortable yesterday and had the legs when Froome needed him. Again.
I'm looking forward to the TT. If Froome really is stronger then the mountains should have taken it out of Wiggins and Froome will surely be highly motivated to make a point in the TT?

jonny_trousers

jedster wrote:

BTW - is anybody REALLY still sure that Froome is stronger than Wiggins. I've not seen enough to call it one way or another - thought Brad looked comfortable yesterday and had the legs when Froome needed him. Again.
I'm looking forward to the TT. If Froome really is stronger then the mountains should have taken it out of Wiggins and Froome will surely be highly motivated to make a point in the TT?

+1

To me, Wiggo has never looked completely spent at the end if any mountain stage.

What DDD wants to see is a powerful all rounder, someone adaptable, someone who crosses the line first and someone who does so in style.