2012 Tour De France Spolier Thread
Comments
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Getting away from Mr Schleck for a bit. A slightly random question for you all.
How can the Polka dot jersey wearer be so far behind the Yellow jersey wearer in the GC? I understood the only 2 real ways to gain/lose time are in a time trial / on the mountainous stages?
The only place I can think that the climber can lose lots of time is if they can't time trial so well. But the Polka dot wearer is a full hour and 14mins behind. Which is a lot of time to lose in two TTs?!"I have a plan, a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a fox." (from the Blackadder TV series)0 -
anton1r wrote:Getting away from Mr Schleck for a bit. A slightly random question for you all.
How can the Polka dot jersey wearer be so far behind the Yellow jersey wearer in the GC? I understood the only 2 real ways to gain/lose time are in a time trial / on the mountainous stages?
The only place I can think that the climber can lose lots of time is if they can't time trial so well. But the Polka dot wearer is a full hour and 14mins behind. Which is a lot of time to lose in two TTs?!
If you head out in a breakaway over, say, a 5 col day, you can be first over the first 4 cols and then when the big GC guns start firing on the final climb, you're too knackered and not good enough to follow, so you get dropped.0 -
No single Polka Jersey contender has dominated/contended ALL the climbs.anton1r wrote:Getting away from Mr Schleck for a bit. A slightly random question for you all.
How can the Polka dot jersey wearer be so far behind the Yellow jersey wearer in the GC? I understood the only 2 real ways to gain/lose time are in a time trial / on the mountainous stages?
You would have thought that this would have been a good Tour for a climber to challenge, even if individually on the climbs, but no.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
You can get to the top of all the climbs first and yet still be swept up by the peleton before the end of a stage if it is not a summit finish.anton1r wrote:Getting away from Mr Schleck for a bit. A slightly random question for you all.
How can the Polka dot jersey wearer be so far behind the Yellow jersey wearer in the GC? I understood the only 2 real ways to gain/lose time are in a time trial / on the mountainous stages?
The only place I can think that the climber can lose lots of time is if they can't time trial so well. But the Polka dot wearer is a full hour and 14mins behind. Which is a lot of time to lose in two TTs?!You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Thanks for the responses gents. It all makes sense, I guess they throw away any level of consistency in their riding to hit the top of the targeted climbs first.
Anyway getting back to the topic of Mr Schleck, you have to wonder. I mean can anyone really be THAT stupid to think they can dope in professional cycling (/any pro sport really) and get away with it. With all the drug testing they have to do."I have a plan, a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a fox." (from the Blackadder TV series)0 -
It has been suggested that a pro can make a name (and a lot of money) for themselves by doping, denying they dope and suing anyone who suggests they dope.anton1r wrote:Thanks for the responses gents. It all makes sense, I guess they throw away any level of consistency in their riding to hit the top of the targeted climbs first.
Anyway getting back to the topic of Mr Schleck, you have to wonder. I mean can anyone really be THAT stupid to think they can dope in professional cycling (/any pro sport really) and get away with it. With all the drug testing they have to do.
Naming no names, of course.
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I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
I think that it is poor form that Wiggins hasn't gone on and attempted to win at least a stage that doesn't involve the TT.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:I think that it is poor form that Wiggins hasn't gone on and attempted to win at least a stage that doesn't involve the TT.
Just out of interest, which stage do you feel he held back on?0 -
He doesn't have to, so why bother?DonDaddyD wrote:I think that it is poor form that Wiggins hasn't gone on and attempted to win at least a stage that doesn't involve the TT.
As long as he is in front of the contenders, he is at the front of his race.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
I think we all knew that if Brad won it was going to be in a dull way.
I think Cummings for the stage win today because he hasn't won one yet. In a way it would be nicer if he got 2nd.0 -
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Never he held back on any, just that I would have liked him to go on and win a stage other than a TT.Jonny_Trousers wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I think that it is poor form that Wiggins hasn't gone on and attempted to win at least a stage that doesn't involve the TT.
Just out of interest, which stage do you feel he held back on?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Also,
He is not a sprinter so won't win any of those.
He is not a climber so won't win any mountain top finishes.
For the rest, his team have been happy to let the breakaway get away with it as long as they are controlling the contenders.
Edit:- His priority is getting the Yellow Jersey, not what armchairs fans may want.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
He doesn't because he can't. Don't think that Big Mig used to either, so it's not unprecedented.Jonny_Trousers wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I think that it is poor form that Wiggins hasn't gone on and attempted to win at least a stage that doesn't involve the TT.
Just out of interest, which stage do you feel he held back on?0 -
First Aspect wrote:
He doesn't because he can't. Don't think that Big Mig used to either, so it's not unprecedented.Jonny_Trousers wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:I think that it is poor form that Wiggins hasn't gone on and attempted to win at least a stage that doesn't involve the TT.
Just out of interest, which stage do you feel he held back on?
Big Mig had a lot of 2nd place finishes - he was wheelsucked to a ridiculous degree. I'm thinking Bruyneel, Leblanc, Bugno, Chiapucci - general pattern was that he would ride everybody off his wheel one by one but there would usually be somebody able to hang on. Bruyneel was a bit different - a surprise attack by Mig in the Ardennes, the day before a time trial - Bruyneel sat on his wheel for, what, 40km?, and then came round for the win on the line. He later said it was like being motorpaced.
Mig did win stages in 1989 and 1990, before he started winning the GC. Attacked Lemond on a summit finish in 1990 (he was doing the wheelsucking there though).
Wiggins could have a chance today I suppose, will be a fairly fast run in after the climbing is finished so if it ends with a GC group he might be in with a shout. I imagine one of Evans, Nibs or VDB would attack to gain a few seconds and the stage though, and Wiggins would be happy to limit his losses and save his legs for tomorrow.0 -
DDD - a couple of days ago you were saying that Cav had lost form, now Wiggo not going for stage wins is 'poor form'... He was absolutely right to 'let' Froome take the stage win on stage 7. Reward for his hard work in keeping Wiggo at the front of the pack.
You seem intent on begrudging Team Sky delivering the first ever British TdF winner.
#justsayin0 -
clarkey cat wrote:DDD - a couple of days ago you were saying that Cav had lost form, now Wiggo not going for stage wins is 'poor form'... He was absolutely right to 'let' Froome take the stage win on stage 7. Reward for his hard work in keeping Wiggo at the front of the pack.
You seem intent on begrudging Team Sky delivering the first ever British TdF winner.
#justsayin
Cav has lost form; it is sad seeing the rainbow jersey, and a great sprinter at that, reduced to the Bidon carrier.
If I was Froome I'd have gone 'Rambo' by now. My argument being 'let the best man [me] win'.
If Froome had the yellow jersey it wouldn't be a surprise if he also went on to win a couple more stages. Doing so would cement the notion that he was the best rider in the tour and better than the competition. And that level of competitive aggression deserves kudos. Wiggins has literally ridden defensively, what can we say? He isn't the strongest, fastest or even the most competitive. Nope, just the dude in the most convenient position.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DDD.
You really haven't grasped this team thing, have you?None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Nope, just a dude in the most convenient position.
I'm struggling to formulate a response which conveys just how cock-eyed this is. Hell, if it's that easy to win a Grand Tour, I might give Mr Brailsford a call and see if I can have a pop next year.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Lost form? He's spent the last week doing training rides.
We'll see how his form is looking on the Champs Elysees.Scott Sportster P45 2008 | Cannondale CAAD8 Tiagra 20120 -
If my beloved Contador was there Wiggins would have cracked. He would have at least been made to work for it.rjsterry wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Nope, just a dude in the most convenient position.
I'm struggling to formulate a response which conveys just how cock-eyed this is. Hell, if it's that easy to win a Grand Tour, I might give Mr Brailsford a call and see if I can have a pop next year.
Without a stage win it just seems that Wiggins hasn't exerted his dominance on the other GC contenders.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Sagan (whoop whoop whoop) will be first across in Paris. That or Griepel.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Cav has lost form; it is sad seeing the rainbow jersey, and a great sprinter at that, reduced to the Bidon carrier.
If I was Froome I'd have gone 'Rambo' by now. My argument being 'let the best man [me] win'.
If Froome had the yellow jersey it wouldn't be a surprise if he also went on to win a couple more stages. Doing so would cement the notion that he was the best rider in the tour and better than the competition. And that level of competitive aggression deserves kudos. Wiggins has literally ridden defensively, what can we say? He isn't the strongest, fastest or even the most competitive. Nope, just the dude in the most convenient position.
:roll:0 -
He is in front of the contenders. That is dominance enough.DonDaddyD wrote:
Without a stage win it just seems that Wiggins hasn't exerted his dominance on the other GC contenders.
Your main problem would not appear to be with Wiggins but the fact that nobody can push him.
Except possibly Froome, who is not allowed to. No matter how much you would wish it.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
I get the point: we want our sporting heroes to be consistently and obviously exerting their dominance over the opposition, but time trials don't quite have the same f*ck-you-lot style as beating your opponents across the line. Obviously the TDF is not about that. It's about being the strongest all-rounder after three weeks, and you've got to admire Wiggo for what he's doing. It was great to see him powering away to lead out EBH the other day, though, and I wonder if he will attempt to silence those who keep banging on about Froome being the stronger rider once it's in the bag. Tomorrow maybe?0
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Jonny_Trousers wrote:I get the point: we want our sporting heroes to be consistently and obviously exerting their dominance over the opposition, but time trials don't quite have the same f*ck-you-lot style as beating your opponents across the line. Obviously the TDF is not about that. It's about being the strongest all-rounder after three weeks, and you've got to admire Wiggo for what he's doing. It was great to see him powering away to lead out EBH the other day, though, and I wonder if he will attempt to silence those who keep banging on about Froome being the stronger rider once it's in the bag. Tomorrow maybe?
No need.
Riding for yellow is a numbers game and if he doesn't need to spend energy, he won't.0 -
How has Cav lost form if he has adapted his physique and training for the Olympics? This was known from the beginning and that GC was what they were gunning for. When he is in the sprints he is still at the front or winning perhaps not as well as previous but that refers back to my point before.
Surely that explains it or am I missing something....
Also why would Wiggins go Banzai and chuck energy away when he does not need to and may need it for later stages. I have not been following it for long but surely that is just tactics.0 -
Nibali's team under pressure...0
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Today I think will be about not losing time to the other contenders. Tomorrow is the last mountain and a summit finish to boot. Hopefully we'll see some aggressive stuff. The Peyresourde isn't too hard a climb and the final 3km up to Peyragudes isn't that bad either (after the first switchback from the turn off the Peyresourde)Jonny_Trousers wrote:I get the point: we want our sporting heroes to be consistently and obviously exerting their dominance over the opposition, but time trials don't quite have the same f*ck-you-lot style as beating your opponents across the line. Obviously the TDF is not about that. It's about being the strongest all-rounder after three weeks, and you've got to admire Wiggo for what he's doing. It was great to see him powering away to lead out EBH the other day, though, and I wonder if he will attempt to silence those who keep banging on about Froome being the stronger rider once it's in the bag. Tomorrow maybe?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Jonny_Trousers wrote:I get the point: we want our sporting heroes to be consistently and obviously exerting their dominance over the opposition, but time trials don't quite have the same f*ck-you-lot style as beating your opponents across the line. Obviously the TDF is not about that. It's about being the strongest all-rounder after three weeks, and you've got to admire Wiggo for what he's doing. It was great to see him powering away to lead out EBH the other day, though, and I wonder if he will attempt to silence those who keep banging on about Froome being the stronger rider once it's in the bag. Tomorrow maybe?
No need.
Riding for yellow is a numbers game and if he doesn't need to spend energy, he won't.
I know, which is why I said, "once it's in the bag". Wiggo's been very sensibly playing the long game, but he must surely have the sportsman's desire to say "F*ck you and watch this!" just itching to come out. Surely?0
