USADA files doping charges against Lance

andy_wrx

Woke up to this as an item on the main news on Radio4 Today programme
And it's in the Top10 on BBC red-button telly news

Now it seems it's Chris Evans too ?!?!

My
Gawd.

I was thinking that, in the UK at least, Lance was yesterday's story and no-one would be interested.
After all, it happened years ago, in some minority sport full of odd people with foreign names.
And right now, the only sports news is some Football Cup in Poland and 'The' Ukraine...

But no, big-time, centre-stage news

ddraver

LangerDan wrote:

ddraver wrote:

You know, I genuinely don't think it will - no one outside of the US thinks that LA rode clean, all this will do will prove it and right some wrongs. If the UCI was managed properly I could see them coming out of this OK(ish). Look we ve sacked all the useless, corrupt crap and now we re starting anew with this brilliant, clean and friendly Aussie/Brit! (Voici une presentation à partir des Anglais avec le science) Look how well we ve done cleaning oursleves up!

Hopefully it will persuade the last few dodgy teams to sign up to Sky/Garmin type programs (just leave it Bernie!)

DD - I wish I shared your optimism, I really do. Perhaps we'll see a temporary situation where the sport may be regarded as clean but unfortunately pro-cycling unites all the key elements that will probably see us dealing with a similar situation in 10 or 15 years time - money, people, glory and conditions where performance can be enhanced or suffering ameliorated by doping. All it takes is some rider who is struggling to keep his place or someone looking to jump to the next level to think "what if..." and then boom goes the dynamite.

Yeah, fair enough, I don't think that Lance getting done will stop all doping for ever, It ll just mean that the truth is out and justice is done. While there is more money for winning, there will always be cheaters.

There's no point actually changing any record books - but the truth that he won 7 tours doped up to the gills, with a team that were same, will be out there!

ratsbeyfus

derbygrimpeur wrote:

exciting stuff

TBH, what he achieved is still impressive - he beat a load of dopers, whilst doped.

But it's about time the truth came out.

Gotta agree with this. Just think that in the long run LA would've done better having that honest chat with the USADA. I guess his advisors have lots to gain from dragging this out for as long as possible.

Gazzaputt

iainf72 wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

WTF does it matter? What good will come of it?

Woman and children being massacred in the world and everyone here is shooting their bolt to the news that Armstrong may or may not have doped.

It's boring it's gone on long enough and even with this charge they'll never be a conclusion.

As Vic and Bob said 'let it lie'.

For me I admired his riding and his battle with cancer and don't give a f*ck if he doped or not.

Does this mean you accept he doped now?

For me I won't be surprised if he had but I await the testimonies and also hard evidence from proper authorities not a witch hunt on a bike forum.

ddraver

^Well you re no fun.....

Jez mon

So, does this make the possibility of some kind of Vaughters splinter organisation higher?

rick_chasey

Gazzaputt wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

WTF does it matter? What good will come of it?

Woman and children being massacred in the world and everyone here is shooting their bolt to the news that Armstrong may or may not have doped.

It's boring it's gone on long enough and even with this charge they'll never be a conclusion.

As Vic and Bob said 'let it lie'.

For me I admired his riding and his battle with cancer and don't give a f*ck if he doped or not.

Does this mean you accept he doped now?

For me I won't be surprised if he had but I await the testimonies and also hard evidence from proper authorities not a witch hunt on a bike forum.

Did you read the USADA letter?

peterst6906

mididoctors wrote:

the real winners in all this will be the lawyers

Hopefully the real winners in all this will be the next generations of riders if they don't have to face a future of team organised doping, especially as the allegations against Bruyneel include right up to this year.

I have a son who is solely focused on becoming a pro. He's too young yet to know whether he will end up good enough, but if he does I hope that the end result of all this is that he; and all other future pro riders, can do it clean and not have to resort to doping just to earn a living.

dsoutar

Interesting (and valid) reader comment on the L'equipe article:

nouveaux vainqueurs : 2005 Basso, 2004 Kloden, 2003 Ullrich, 2002 Beloki, 2001 Ullrich, 2000 Ullrich, 1999 Zulle. Mouais... Bien c'est pas beaucoup plus crédible! Et même si on doit fouiller dans les top 10 de ces tours pour trouver un vainqueur non douteux, ça fait froid dans le dos.

new winners: Basso 2005, 2004 Kloden, 2003 Ullrich, Beloki 2002, Ullrich 2001, Ullrich 2000, 1999 Zulle. Hmm ... It's not much more credible! And even if one searches the top 10 of these tours to find a winner no doubt, it is chilling.

I guess we just need a "find and replace all" formula to add asterisk to everybody during this period.

nweststeyn

I always wonder if EPO would mean I would be richer... because my commute would be much faster and I'd have more time at work. How do you get on the program?!

ShutUpLegs

Rick Chasey wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

WTF does it matter? What good will come of it?

Woman and children being massacred in the world and everyone here is shooting their bolt to the news that Armstrong may or may not have doped.

It's boring it's gone on long enough and even with this charge they'll never be a conclusion.

As Vic and Bob said 'let it lie'.

For me I admired his riding and his battle with cancer and don't give a f*ck if he doped or not.

Does this mean you accept he doped now?

For me I won't be surprised if he had but I await the testimonies and also hard evidence from proper authorities not a witch hunt on a bike forum.

Did you read the USADA letter?

Was it written by Harry Redknapp :?:

LeicesterLad

Serious Question though.

Where are Moray and DennisN? This is getting ridiculous now, the thread is drying up without them.

ratsbeyfus

DennisN will be along... he's a good sport. I imagine he's out on his bike, having a beer and shooting the breeze with one of his buds... or over on 'workshop' telling people not to waste their money on expensive bike lube... or over on 'road buying advice' telling people to buy whatever they think they oughta buy, not what someone else thinks they oughta buy (unless it's a pair of Dura-Ace pedals). Me... I'm stuck in here, just avoiding shed loads of work... grrrrrrrrrrr to the timing of all this!

derbygrimpeur

dsoutar wrote:

Interesting (and valid) reader comment on the L'equipe article:

nouveaux vainqueurs : 2005 Basso, 2004 Kloden, 2003 Ullrich, 2002 Beloki, 2001 Ullrich, 2000 Ullrich, 1999 Zulle. Mouais... Bien c'est pas beaucoup plus crédible! Et même si on doit fouiller dans les top 10 de ces tours pour trouver un vainqueur non douteux, ça fait froid dans le dos.

new winners: Basso 2005, 2004 Kloden, 2003 Ullrich, Beloki 2002, Ullrich 2001, Ullrich 2000, 1999 Zulle. Hmm ... It's not much more credible! And even if one searches the top 10 of these tours to find a winner no doubt, it is chilling.

I guess we just need a "find and replace all" formula to add asterisk to everybody during this period.

According to frenchfighter's great graphic it would be...

1999 - Escartin (3rd)
2000 - Escartin (8th)
2001 - Kivilev (4th)
2002 - Azevedo (6th)
2003 - Zubeldia (5th)
2004 - Azevedo (5th)
2005 - Evans (8th)

Interestingly, Sastre would've been on the podium 2002-2004, and 2006 Tour "winner" Pereiro would been 4th in 2004 and 2nd 2005.

ilovebigwig

nweststeyn wrote:

I always wonder if EPO would mean I would be richer... because my commute would be much faster and I'd have more time at work. How do you get on the program?!

Great point! Can we not all get on this? I'm not interested in racing in the Olympics or professionally, I just want to get out of the rain quicker. I'm going to ask if this can be added to the bike to work scheme.

mroli

Interesting time for Rapha to produce a Lance Armstrong T-shirt! http://www.rapha.cc/sitting-on-the-fence

frenchfighter

Havent been following this thread, but in case it hasnt been posted, here is the letter:

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/ ... ng0613.pdf

Monty Dog

Does this mean an end to Nike-clad, Oakely wearing, Trek riding MAMILs with yellow plastic bangles? Three brands I continue to boycott as they were complicit in the fraud.

nweststeyn

"c**k rings for arms"

ddraver

Monty Dog wrote:

Does this mean an end to Nike-clad, Oakely wearing, Trek riding MAMILs with yellow plastic bangles? Three brands I continue to boycott as they were complicit in the fraud.

Yellow Bangles - yes (Please yes!!)
Oakleys - well...no, Cav uses them after all - they ll just all switch to green/white frames
Trek - interesting....none of this has ever stopped me lusting after an Fuel EX9.9...

True MAMIL's are all wearing Sky Jerseys inthe UK these days anyway...(Rabbobank ones over here)

frenchfighter

Jammer

Crozza

this sums up my feelings pretty well, based on my limited understanding of the facts, and the problems that I have with a lot of the statements that Bernie claims are backed by "evidence":

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Armst ... _2848.html

blazing_saddles

I guess Chris Horner is the one laughing now:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruynee ... are-upheld

Crozza wrote:

this sums up my feelings pretty well, based on my limited understanding of the facts, and the problems that I have with a lot of the statements that Bernie claims are backed by "evidence":

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Armst ... _2848.html

Yeah, slowtwitch seems to be the new home for alternative theory.
Could be where MG and DN have taken sanctuary.

timoid.

mroli wrote:

Interesting time for Rapha to produce a Lance Armstrong T-shirt! http://www.rapha.cc/sitting-on-the-fence

That article is such a bunch of carp

Indurain, in particular, set the precedent for training for one goal – the Tour

This would be the chap who did the Giro Tour double two years back to back and nearly a third, Worlds TT, Worlds RR (or at least gifted it to Olano), Olympic TT Gold, 2 Paris Nice, 2 Dauphines, 3 Catalunyas and the Hour Record?

like Merckx and Indurain, both of whom turned the races they dominated into boring spectacles (unless you enjoy watching time trials

Merckx won on every terrain including one of the most epic stages of all time to Mourenx

TMR

Monty Dog wrote:

Does this mean an end to Nike-clad, Oakely wearing, Trek riding MAMILs with yellow plastic bangles? Three brands I continue to boycott as they were complicit in the fraud.

No. Oakleys are awesome and I look the **** in mine!

No_Ta_Doctor

Gazzaputt wrote:

WTF does it matter? What good will come of it?

Woman and children being massacred in the world and everyone here is shooting their bolt to the news that Armstrong may or may not have doped.

It's boring it's gone on long enough and even with this charge they'll never be a conclusion.

As Vic and Bob said 'let it lie'.

For me I admired his riding and his battle with cancer and don't give a f*ck if he doped or not.

You appear to have signed up to the wrong forum. This is a cycling forum, where we discuss cycling related stuff. You want http://www.endallwarandnastystuffbefoer ... com/forums

You could just have well have posted that on an interminable "Why did Cav not win" thread.

Gazzetta67

Fair play to B/Bernie he`s stuck at it. I hope he gets the apologies from some on here that he deserves and i bet that will stick in the throat of a few of you eh. 8)

derbygrimpeur

frenchfighter wrote:

Press bringing out some neat photos.
Getty

Awesome photos

timoid.

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Fair play to B/Bernie he`s stuck at it. I hope he gets the apologies from some on here that he deserves and i bet that will stick in the throat of a few of you eh. 8)

Well I think most people were in agreement with his views on Armstrong. But I hope he doesn't use if for justifing the rest of his pet rants:

- French riders are all clean
- Spanish riders are all dirty
- Wiggins is clearly doping as he doesn't diss Armstrong on twitter

I also think we need some DenisNoward action on this board.

FSR_XC

I actually think this is a real shame.  After so many previous witch hunts, if the doping evidence was out there, Lance should have been convicted by now.

Lance Armstrong has done more for the sport of cycling throughout his career than probably any other person involved in the sport and every time we investigate him, it brings the whole sport back into the gutter.  If we continue to say that everyone from this era was involved in doping, then we may as well right off the last century in terms of cycling achievements as all we seem to want to do is bring the sport into disrepute.

Whether Lance doped or not remains to be proven, but what he has done for the sport and the damage it will have if he is guilty will have lasting effects.  Then what does guilty look like?  He has never had a positive test, so it will be the word of a few people who are given immunity against their indiscretions and were not able to beat the man to discredit him.  I can't help thinking this is a rather tainted view.

I do have one question, unrelated to cycling.  What anti doping investigation is there for football?  I am amazed how a (let's face it) minor sport like cycling has more publicity about drugs than about races, yet I have never heard of even an accusation in football.  Guys in their 20's having heart attacks etc anyone?

Anyway, Lance has in recent months had a similar effect on triathlon as he had on his return to cycling.  He has this year qualified for Kona (the TdF of Ironman triathlon) and has created a massive amount of publicity for this sport.  These accusations mean he may not race Kona, but more importantly, bring the veil of drugs over the sport of triathlon.

If we continue to dig up allegations, how will the sport of cycling ever show a clean bill of health to the world?