USADA files doping charges against Lance

symo

IF these riders have admitted guilt, then what is the liklihood that as was alledged the UCI were involved in this. Would not like to be in Fat Pat's position right now, what with Pharmstrongs donations.

disgruntledgoat

dennisn wrote:

Wow,the post are coming fast and furious now. I'm having trouble keeping up. All I can think of is what a time for "bikingbernie" to be "out of action" so to speak.

It's too much of a coincidence.

dodgy

symo wrote:

Chances of the commentating idiots actually discussing this on Urosport or ITV4 today?

Slim to negligible ? Cos we all love that EPO enhanced arrogant mofo for the trips on his private jet

Phil and Paul have just spent about 3 minutes discussing it, I'd say they were largely dismissive. Saying that it's only due to weak libel laws that make these rumours come out.

dennisn

disgruntledgoat wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Wow,the post are coming fast and furious now. I'm having trouble keeping up. All I can think of is what a time for "bikingbernie" to be "out of action" so to speak.

It's too much of a coincidence.

Maybe bernie took the six month suspension deal himself. Love those conspiracy theory's.

dennisn

dodgy wrote:

symo wrote:

Chances of the commentating idiots actually discussing this on Urosport or ITV4 today?

Slim to negligible ? Cos we all love that EPO enhanced arrogant mofo for the trips on his private jet

Phil and Paul have just spent about 3 minutes discussing it, I'd say they were largely dismissive. Saying that it's only due to weak libel laws that make these rumours come out.

The media love this kind of thing, rumors or not, it gets people listening to them and that's their bottom line. How many people listen to us? Maybe this forum needs to get into the 21st century and have a way that all the postings can be in the form of "talking heads" jabbering back and forth. Any rant is always better when you see the person actually talking.

symo

dodgy wrote:

symo wrote:

Chances of the commentating idiots actually discussing this on Urosport or ITV4 today?

Slim to negligible ? Cos we all love that EPO enhanced arrogant mofo for the trips on his private jet

Phil and Paul have just spent about 3 minutes discussing it, I'd say they were largely dismissive. Saying that it's only due to weak libel laws that make these rumours come out.

Err so the fact it was given under oath to the feds means it isn't credible. Idiots of the highest degree. Or do they mean that de Telegraaf is making false accusations which is libel on their part.

petemadoc

I've tried to keep up with this story as best as possible and read most of the posts with interest.

I have a question

If jonathan vaughters is admitting to doping and giving evidence against LA how does this affect the squeaky clean "we don't dope" image that Garmin are trying to portray. Does it mean it's all bolox?

MrTapir

dodgy wrote:

symo wrote:

Chances of the commentating idiots actually discussing this on Urosport or ITV4 today?

Slim to negligible ? Cos we all love that EPO enhanced arrogant mofo for the trips on his private jet

Phil and Paul have just spent about 3 minutes discussing it, I'd say they were largely dismissive. Saying that it's only due to weak libel laws that make these rumours come out.

Rubbish, Britain has the easiest libel laws anywhere which is why you get that libel tourism stuff that Private Eye always highlights. And also if its a leak from the Armstrong camp then double rubbish to them.

josame

PeteMadoc wrote:

I've tried to keep up with this story as best as possible and read most of the posts with interest.

I have a question

If jonathan vaughters is admitting to doping and giving evidence against LA how does this affect the squeaky clean "we don't dope" image that Garmin are trying to portray. Does it mean it's all bolox?

1) It's a long time since he rode a bike...

2) If you were going to run a doping programme within your team it's unlikely you would take his tack

disgruntledgoat

PeteMadoc wrote:

I've tried to keep up with this story as best as possible and read most of the posts with interest.

I have a question

If jonathan vaughters is admitting to doping and giving evidence against LA how does this affect the squeaky clean "we don't dope" image that Garmin are trying to portray. Does it mean it's all bolox?

Nope. I think Garmin have always made it very clear that they couldn't change the past, but they could change te future. Hence their recruitment of the likes of Millar, Zabriskie and Dekker.

sergen

disgruntledgoat wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

I've tried to keep up with this story as best as possible and read most of the posts with interest.

I have a question

If jonathan vaughters is admitting to doping and giving evidence against LA how does this affect the squeaky clean "we don't dope" image that Garmin are trying to portray. Does it mean it's all bolox?

Nope. I think Garmin have always made it very clear that they couldn't change the past, but they could change te future. Hence their recruitment of the likes of Millar, Zabriskie and Dekker.

Spot on. Besides, a few years ago JV gave an interview regarding his then record-breaking ascent of Mont Ventoux during a time trial stage of the Dauphine. http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/jon ... sleek-geek

He more or less admitted to doping in that interview so it's not ground breaking news. But the key point for me is that his past in absolutely no way tarnishes the credibility or sincerity of what he's trying to do now. He reached a stage where he realised he didn't want to carry on down that path and that philosophy of clean cycling supports the whole foundation of Slipstream/Garmin. It doesn't matter what happened in the past if you're honest within the team and pledge to ride clean from now on. JV had no obligation to set up a team committed to clean cycling. But he did so by choice.

Some might argue that if JV didn't 'fess up back then why should his 'clean cycling' ethos have any credibility now? I think they are missing the point. Neither he nor his riders have ever needed to make a big public confession to prove they've changed their ways. But internally, within the team, they do have to buy into the collective ethos of clean cycling - if not then you can go ride for someone else. JV was always far too shrewd to go kicking up a storm of sh*t when he set up Slipstream. Had he gone mouthing off about how it was 'back in the day', his team would never have got off the ground. Slipstream/Garmin has been a quiet revolution, the product of both shrewd and morally-enlightened thinking in equal measure.

slim_boy_fat

Armstrong's response on Twitter.

So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear...

...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling..

This isn't about @usantidoping wanting to clean up cycling - rather it's just plain ol' selective prosecution that reeks of vendetta.

Do we think he wrote that response last night before the leak?

MrTapir

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

Armstrong's response on Twitter.

So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear...

...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling..

This isn't about @usantidoping wanting to clean up cycling - rather it's just plain ol' selective prosecution that reeks of vendetta.

Do we think he wrote that response last night before the leak?

Has he just posted those? I dont see how he could use that 'vendetta' line with Hincapie or Leipheimer so it must have been before this leak thing

rick_chasey

With Armstrong's defence, I can't see what motive he's giving the USADA for doing him and the staff?

Crozza

quite proud of my little thread

now that it's at 60 pages, can I have honorary 200-post status?

disgruntledgoat

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

Armstrong's response on Twitter.

So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear...

...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling..

This isn't about @usantidoping wanting to clean up cycling - rather it's just plain ol' selective prosecution that reeks of vendetta.

Do we think he wrote that response last night before the leak?

So they're all lying... Whatt's their motivation for that?

And what's USADA's motive for doing Lance?

mfin

Rick Chasey wrote:

With Armstrong's defence, I can't see what motive he's giving the USADA for doing him and the staff?

Well, its half the argument of 'everyone including me doped so why aim it at me, its obviously personal, ...a vendetta' ...but conveniently minus the bit before the 'so' which would be an admission of doping.

That's my interpretation anyway.

Perhaps if Lance didn't want people reading between the lines like I am there, then he should state things more clearly rather than talking vague cr*p, mind you tw*tter does give him the ability to be vague with its 140chars.

(See, if you believe Lance doped, you've got to take his comments in context of someone who's saying XYZ, but knows they doped, and are not admitting it... either that or his comments are from someone who didn't dope, but it can't be both).

mfin

disgruntledgoat wrote:

And what's USADA's motive for doing Lance?

Well, Lance seems to think anything but 'they're doing their job' which is all it is. Investigation based on collected evidence.

Does anyone else think LA is a bit dim?? ...or he thinks everyone else is, and that's why this PR of his might work in his and his team's eyes? ...cos PR doesn't really deal with the facts.

iainf72

USADA have denied there are 6 months deals.

Nice try JB.

mfin

iainf72 wrote:

USADA have denied there are 6 months deals.

Nice try JB.

So no meat behind the article??

iainf72

mfin wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

USADA have denied there are 6 months deals.

Nice try JB.

So no meat behind the article??

Some pork.

Hogs are made of pork, right?

slim_boy_fat

MrTapir wrote:

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

Armstrong's response on Twitter.

So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear...

...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling..

This isn't about @usantidoping wanting to clean up cycling - rather it's just plain ol' selective prosecution that reeks of vendetta.

Do we think he wrote that response last night before the leak?

Has he just posted those? I dont see how he could use that 'vendetta' line with Hincapie or Leipheimer so it must have been before this leak thing

He did just post those. Sorry I wasn't very clear, what I meant by did he write it last night was, do we think he was fully aware the leak was going to happen so had penned those comments last night ready to post first thing this morning when he woke up.

ddraver

mfin wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

USADA have denied there are 6 months deals.

Nice try JB.

So no meat behind the article??

Not about the 6 month bans - although I still think it sounds like they re sayIng that there are no bans CURRENTLY in place, not that there won't be in September...

Bakunin

sergen wrote:

He more or less admitted to doping in that interview so it's not ground breaking news. But the key point for me is that his past in absolutely no way tarnishes the credibility or sincerity of what he's trying to do now. He reached a stage where he realised he didn't want to carry on down that path and that philosophy of clean cycling supports the whole foundation of Slipstream/Garmin. It doesn't matter what happened in the past if you're honest within the team and pledge to ride clean from now on. JV had no obligation to set up a team committed to clean cycling. But he did so by choice.

Some might argue that if JV didn't 'fess up back then why should his 'clean cycling' ethos have any credibility now? I think they are missing the point. Neither he nor his riders have ever needed to make a big public confession to prove they've changed their ways. But internally, within the team, they do have to buy into the collective ethos of clean cycling - if not then you can go ride for someone else. JV was always far too shrewd to go kicking up a storm of sh*t when he set up Slipstream. Had he gone mouthing off about how it was 'back in the day', his team would never have got off the ground. Slipstream/Garmin has been a quiet revolution, the product of both shrewd and morally-enlightened thinking in equal measure.

I agree with much of what you wrote.

I wonder if the time was right to extend that revolution? And the best way to do that was to take on the Armstrong mess. Maybe the tide has really turned in the pro ranks? The fact that DZ, CVV, and JV were ready to do this at this time illustrates that Garmin/Slipstream are no longer a little, weird American team, but actually has significant weight in the pro ranks.

I always thought that Americans needed to push LA into the pit, too easy to blame all this on the French.

I'm surprised that GH and LL would talk -- what is their motivation? I always dismissed them as being part of the problem.

dave_1

There are 5 people who should leave the TDF by tomorrow morning. They did it , they should be banned or nobody should be. George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie and Vaughters should go away tomorrow

slim_boy_fat

Dave_1 wrote:

There are 5 people who should leave the TDF by tomorrow morning. They did it , they should be banned or nobody should be.

Should they not wait until the conclusion of the investigation?

dennisn

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

There are 5 people who should leave the TDF by tomorrow morning. They did it , they should be banned or nobody should be.

Should they not wait until the conclusion of the investigation?

That was very well put. People do have rights ya know. You, me, us, them, all of us.

Rundfahrt

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Slim Boy Fat wrote:

Armstrong's response on Twitter.

So let me get this straight...come in and tell @usantidoping exactly what they wanted to hear...

...in exchange for immunity, anonymity, and the opportunity to continue to race the biggest event in cycling..

This isn't about @usantidoping wanting to clean up cycling - rather it's just plain ol' selective prosecution that reeks of vendetta.

Do we think he wrote that response last night before the leak?

So they're all lying... Whatt's their motivation for that?

And what's USADA's motive for doing Lance?

Where did he say anyone was lying? He was pointing out how they are, allegedly, cutting multiple deals in order to go after one person. The big name bust gets more funding and PR for USADA and certain individuals. They ignored many easy to nail small fish in order to get Landis.

Jez mon

Dave_1 wrote:

There are 5 people who should leave the TDF by tomorrow morning. They did it , they should be banned or nobody should be. George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie and Vaughters should go away tomorrow

Meh, does anyone really care about Lance being banned? Just want him convicted. Not to mention the five above aren't under investigation. Also banning Vaughters, but not Riis, why?

cycling5280

Dave_1 wrote:

There are 5 people who should leave the TDF by tomorrow morning. They did it , they should be banned or nobody should be. George Hincapie, Levi Leipheimer, Christian Vande Velde and David Zabriskie and Vaughters should go away tomorrow

Not sure why the USADA hasn't presented their findings/facts to the UCI by now? I agree if there is any truth to the allegations against these riders in the Tour they should not be racing tomorrow.