USADA files doping charges against Lance

iainf72

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish ... ng-charges

Do they all have the same lawyer?

"These charges are the same as those which the Justice Department decided not to pursue after a two-year investigation, and once again and like every year, within weeks of the Tour de France, there is emerging news about cyclist doping allegations in which, again, we are involved,” he said.

iainf72

cajun_cyclist wrote:

Glad you admit it Ian and what place attacking religion or one's religious beliefs has to do with a cycling forum is beyond me but glad that now we see your's and bikingbernie's intolerance. Love the way you jumped to the defence of atheism. Enjoy Londonistan.

Wait, who's the one who said they didn't want atheism in the US? I just pointed out communism and atheism are not the same thing and it makes you sound stupid saying it. I don't mind what you belief, and I would hope you would do me the courtesy of the same

So, can you explain what I said that was intolerant? I'm *dying* to know.

ratsbeyfus

Londonistan? Does this mean we're on the axis of evil hitlist? Where's DennisN (MPBUH)... we need some balance on this forum...

Bakunin

Beatmaker wrote:

mfin wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

le patron wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Was having a read of the Asylum this afternoon, and it was the usual dross, aside from someone who wondered why Chris Carmichael wasn't on the list....

Any theories ? If this trail goes all the way back to '96 I would have thought he would be in the thick of this.

He's one of the people who spoke to the USADA?

Please, please let this possibility turn out to be true!

Carmichael testifying could be the smoking gun to beat all smoking guns. His testimony could not be dismissed as that of a spurned ex team mate or or employee. Carmichael Coaching must have made millions on the back the the association with Armstrong' and I thought they still maintained a relationship. I sincerely hope this happens.

The Carmichael thing could be key -- this is a guy that Greg Strock alleged injected him with the sauce.

I always thought that once his teammates gave him up, that was it. If Carmichael turned, it is really game, set, match.

shinyhelmut

cajun_cyclist wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

cajun_cyclist wrote:

Biking Bernie, you are the biggest troll, yeah, USA does not need Atheists high suicide rate and more people dead in one century in the name of Atheism (Communism) than from all religious wars, that's all you mainland European Atheists bring to the table besides bankruptcy. You can only make trolling idiotic statements and have some sort of anti-lance man crush. You have no idea what you speak about but only take all this from David Walsh's books and bring nothing new to the table.

Dude saying atheism = communism makes you sound like a weapons grade moron.

Glad you admit it Ian and what place attacking religion or one's religious beliefs has to do with a cycling forum is beyond me but glad that now we see your's and bikingbernie's intolerance. Love the way you jumped to the defence of atheism. Enjoy Londonistan.

Really, I doubt if bikingbernie has ever visited the US, with his weird stuff of printing nazi memorabilia here and calling others trolls. Unbelievable, oh yeah, it had to do with the "Will of " whatever....

I personally think Iain was being remarkably restrained. Next you'll be telling us that Darwin was wrong and that earthquakes are caused by homosexuality.

shinyhelmut

Anyhow back to the subject;

Personally I doubt Carmichael has been directly involved with Armstrong's training since before his cancer, it just suits both sides to perpetuate the myth that Armstrong's remarkable success was down to CTS not Ferrari. I believe, although I'm far from certain, that Armstrong owns a significant share in CTS.

iainf72

It's a question of how much he knows. LA would've needed help when he was in the US and perhaps he fulfilled this role.

What I think has happened with the USADA is they've got a lot of people in and got them talking. Probably offered a deal or something, but the net result is you've got a lot of people who don't know what the other is saying. So the only options are to say nothing at all or tell the truth. Perhaps as things have changed in cycling over the last few years, some of the guys prefered not having to be a scientific experiment and if you confess, you won't end up in the situations Tyler an Floyd had.

shinyhelmut

True, and I'm sure Carmichael knows an awful lot.

As you say anyone who USADA pulled in was in a tricky situation and for once in a situation where the truth might seem a safer option that omertà.

shinyhelmut

Slightly off topic but still relevant and interesting, Marathontalk podcast interviewed Frank Shorter, 1972 Olympic marathon champion and more relevantly 1976 silver medalist behind East German Waldemar Cierpinski. He talks about losing to a runner who he knew was on PEDs and a bit about the origins of WADA and USADA.

DavMartinR

As USADA is leading the case it is above national jurisdiction does this mean that they may have talked to foreign members of the USPostal, Astana & Shack squads?

mercsport

A wee bit OT but obliquely related and a chance to drop a photo into this pictureless thread and lighten the tone a little. If only briefly.

From when I was flogging my way home from the Pyrenees last September I was amused to come across this place called Lancé.

Just N of Nantes BTW.

LangerDan

Bakunin wrote:

The Carmichael thing could be key -- this is a guy that Greg Strock alleged injected him with the sauce.

I always thought that once his teammates gave him up, that was it. If Carmichael turned, it is really game, set, match.

I wouldn't be so sure. Its alleged that Carmichael was really just the "local agent" for implementing Ferrari's training plans. His knowledge of the details of the overall scheme may be limited. Without an Armstrong and Ferrari to work with, I'm not sure we'd have heard of him otherwise - he ain't no Aldo Sassi.

dougzz

iainf72 wrote:

It's a question of how much he knows. LA would've needed help when he was in the US and perhaps he fulfilled this role.

What I think has happened with the USADA is they've got a lot of people in and got them talking. Probably offered a deal or something, but the net result is you've got a lot of people who don't know what the other is saying. So the only options are to say nothing at all or tell the truth. Perhaps as things have changed in cycling over the last few years, some of the guys prefered not having to be a scientific experiment and if you confess, you won't end up in the situations Tyler an Floyd had.

Tru dat. If you look at the baseball case with Clemons, Andy Petite fessed up and in many ways gained respect because of it. Clemons' denials just make him look more of an arse. Having said that Petite didn't spend years on juice.

BikingBernie

cajun_cyclist wrote:

Biking Bernie, you are the biggest troll, yeah, USA does not need Atheists high suicide rate and more people dead in one century in the name of Atheism (Communism) than from all religious wars, that's all you mainland European Atheists bring to the table besides bankruptcy.

...glad that now we see your's and bikingbernie's intolerance. Love the way you jumped to the defence of atheism. Enjoy Londonistan.

Nice to see the reasonable voice of the devotedly religious on the forum.

Look, I really did think that you were trying to get a rise from me with that nonsense about Lourdes. (Although you didn't even seem to know what the place was actually called).

I could deconstruct your clearly ill-informed (as other have already pointed out) rant about 'Atheism', 'Communism' and all the rest. However, I doubt anyone would thank me for this! Suffice to say, I do not think that someone's irrational belief in invisible super-beings, old Jewish fairy stories or whatever should be immune to rational criticism just because it is put on a pedestal as 'religion'. To paraphrase Mark Twain 'Faith is believing what you know isn't true'.

blazing_saddles

The Ferrari payment has now made CN:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... ri-in-2006
I find the year odd.

BikingBernie

It looks as though Cycling Weekly is actually growing some balls. It doesn't take much reading between the lines to see the exasperation with Armstrong's response so far.

...Over the years he has sought to discredit anyone who has dared speak out against him, and often used blatant intimidation (in the cases of Christophe Bassons and Filippo Simeoni).

...In June 2011 Armstrong confronted former team mate Tyler Hamilton in a restaurant in Aspen, Colorado. Some viewed this as a chance encounter, others claimed it was intimidation of a witness.

...In 1999 however Armstrong tested positive for a corticosteroid while on his way to winning his first Tour de France. The UCI excused the result after a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TEU) form was provided by the team doctor, saying it was for a skin complaint.

It was later alleged that the TUE form was backdated (a common trick used by cycling team doctors over the years) and use corticosteroids are now listed in USADA's letter as one of the violations.

Samples of Armstrong's urine, taken in 1999, were found to have contained EPO, the blood boosting drug that was commonly abused in the pro peloton, when re-tested in 2004.

...He consistently uses his work for Livestrong as a promotional tool for himself, and hasn't been afraid of using it as a way of deflecting questions on doping. Questions have however been raised over the way that Livestrong spends it's money, and how much of that money Armstrong uses to fly around the world in his private jet.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... t-him.html

andyp

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Ferrari payment has now made CN:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... ri-in-2006
I find the year odd.

It's the same year as the $5 million bonus from the SCA Promotions policy paid out so is, one assumes, Ferrari's share of that.

iainf72

BikingBernie wrote:

It looks as though Cycling Weekly is actually growing some balls. It doesn't take much reading between the lines to see the exasperation with Armstrong's response so far.

I think you do them a disservice - Birnie and Pickering are scatching about Armstrong *a lot* in print and online.

You need to remember there are 2 sides to everything and they need to present both. Publishing something Bruyneel or Armstrongs lawyer says isn't approval of it.

mididoctors

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Ferrari payment has now made CN:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... ri-in-2006
I find the year odd.

its all speculation

back pay... no payments actually made while Larry was in the bunch... if anything had happened back in the day there woould be no money trail?

mididoctors

andyp wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Ferrari payment has now made CN:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstro ... ri-in-2006
I find the year odd.

It's the same year as the $5 million bonus from the SCA Promotions policy paid out so is, one assumes, Ferrari's share of that.

makes sense

No_Ta_Doctor

Fairly comprehensive catalogue of damning Lance material here - including the LeMond - Stephanie Mcllavain phone call tape.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.co.uk/2009/ ... r.html?m=1

PBo

iainf72 wrote:

cajun_cyclist wrote:

Biking Bernie, you are the biggest troll, yeah, USA does not need Atheists high suicide rate and more people dead in one century in the name of Atheism (Communism) than from all religious wars, that's all you mainland European Atheists bring to the table besides bankruptcy. You can only make trolling idiotic statements and have some sort of anti-lance man crush. You have no idea what you speak about but only take all this from David Walsh's books and bring nothing new to the table.

Dude saying atheism = communism makes you sound like a weapons grade moron.

is that the only comment that makes him sound like a weapons grade moron?

ratsbeyfus

PBo wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

cajun_cyclist wrote:

Biking Bernie, you are the biggest troll, yeah, USA does not need Atheists high suicide rate and more people dead in one century in the name of Atheism (Communism) than from all religious wars, that's all you mainland European Atheists bring to the table besides bankruptcy. You can only make trolling idiotic statements and have some sort of anti-lance man crush. You have no idea what you speak about but only take all this from David Walsh's books and bring nothing new to the table.

Dude saying atheism = communism makes you sound like a weapons grade moron.

is that the only comment that makes him sound like a weapons grade moron?

Nah... he's got a whole brain full of idiocy. Have a peek in the 'Who Won If Lance Didn't...' thread if you wanna read some bile.

iainf72

ratsbeyfus wrote:

Nah... he's got a whole brain full of idiocy. Have a peek in the 'Who Won If Lance Didn't...' thread if you wanna read some bile.

I'm still waiting to hear what my intolerant remark was. Especially coming from someone who said Londonstan which must imply some kind of issue with Islam.

mfin

cajun_cyclist wrote:

Biking Bernie, you are the biggest troll, yeah, USA does not need Atheists high suicide rate and more people dead in one century in the name of Atheism (Communism) than from all religious wars, that's all you mainland European Atheists bring to the table besides bankruptcy. You can only make trolling idiotic statements and have some sort of anti-lance man crush. You have no idea what you speak about but only take all this from David Walsh's books and bring nothing new to the table.

Lance is Agnostic. Spose it gives him more gods to pick from if he needs one.

Are Agnostics a bit of a problem to you too? Probably not if Lance is.

No_Ta_Doctor

Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie all declined Olympic nomination.

Read into that what you will :-)

Monty Dog

Is USCA not responsible for US Olympic nominations, owner by none other than Thomas Weisel, bank-roller in chief?

frenchfighter

Pretty low number of people contributing to this thread. Read into that what you will.

ratsbeyfus

I'm just tring to up my post count so that I don't get accused of being a noob.

Jez mon

No tA Doctor wrote:

Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie all declined Olympic nomination.

Read into that what you will :-)

I'm confused. A while back people were looking at Horner's non-selection for the tour and pointing fingers, but Horner has been selected for the olympics.

So, are we just making wild stabs in the dark?