USADA files doping charges against Lance

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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    Jez mon wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie all declined Olympic nomination.

    Read into that what you will :-)

    I'm confused. A while back people were looking at Horner's non-selection for the tour and pointing fingers, but Horner has been selected for the olympics.

    So, are we just making wild stabs in the dark?

    Us? Make stabs in the dark? Surely not....
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  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hincapi ... f-olympics
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Beatmaker
    Beatmaker Posts: 1,092
    iainf72 wrote:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-opted-out-of-olympics

    Wow. There is four of the ten confirmed then.
  • Gazzetta67
    Gazzetta67 Posts: 1,890
    iainf72 wrote:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hincapie-leipheimer-vande-velde-zabriskie-opted-out-of-olympics

    Always makes me laugh that line from Hincapie -that he's sad that people talk about the "past" and not about the future says the former US postal "mountain climber" winner at the Pla d adet hors cat climb in the TDF ....yes Big George you know how to tell em eh :mrgreen:
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,858
    Strange to turn down the chance, but what am I missing - how does opting out of the Olympics show they're some of the riders to speak to USADA?
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    Isn't he 2006 TDF contender George Hincapie?
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Strange to turn down the chance, but what am I missing - how does opting out of the Olympics show they're some of the riders to speak to USADA?

    Because obviously if you're a non sprinting mountain domestique on a sprinters course, and you've spoken to USADA, it's the obvious thing to do.

    Or maybe they can't be arsed taking part in a race they've no chance of winning a week after the TDF.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Strange to turn down the chance, but what am I missing - how does opting out of the Olympics show they're some of the riders to speak to USADA?

    If a rider is part of an investigation, they cannot be in the US Olympic squad.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Dave Z was generally expected to get the ITT slot that went to Phinney.
    I can't think of another reason why he would not want to compete in his event.

    It does seem to be that in this case, 2+2 actually = 4 USPs.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Strange to turn down the chance, but what am I missing - how does opting out of the Olympics show they're some of the riders to speak to USADA?

    The implication is clearly that as part of talking to the USADA they admitted to their own doping, and because the olympics have a perceived cleaner image, and certainly more focus on them that having it announced during the olympics that they admitted to doping would look bad.

    Or maybe their current believed undectable methods are now known to be detectable by the Olympic testers so they don't want to risk it.

    Or they heard Box Hill was really, really hard so didn't want to try.

    Or didn't like East London.

    All sorts of reasons, the most likely though is the disrepute of the team by having self confessed dopers who have a penalty over hanging them.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde and Zabriskie all declined Olympic nomination.

    Read into that what you will :-)

    I'm confused. A while back people were looking at Horner's non-selection for the tour and pointing fingers, but Horner has been selected for the olympics.

    So, are we just making wild stabs in the dark?

    Us? Make stabs in the dark? Surely not....

    :D

    Tbf, the olympics thing makes more sense than the Horner not to the tour thing. Plus Horner has only been in the Bruyneel fold since 2008, he's not IMO, a big fish for USADA.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    iainf72 wrote:
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Strange to turn down the chance, but what am I missing - how does opting out of the Olympics show they're some of the riders to speak to USADA?

    If a rider is part of an investigation, they cannot be in the US Olympic squad.

    Love this. Too dodgy for the Olympics but not dodgy enough to stop them racing anything else.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    seems they all asked not to be selected rather than pulled as they are part of an investigation
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,858
    LangerDan wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Strange to turn down the chance, but what am I missing - how does opting out of the Olympics show they're some of the riders to speak to USADA?

    If a rider is part of an investigation, they cannot be in the US Olympic squad.

    Love this. Too dodgy for the Olympics but not dodgy enough to stop them racing anything else.

    I'm with you LD - if they need to pull out of the Olympics because they've confessed to their involvement in a doping conspiracy, why are they not all announcing their retirements (rather than just Hincapie?). They're surely not going to continue their careers courtesy of a plea bargain? Just doesn't add up.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    I'm with you LD - if they need to pull out of the Olympics because they've confessed to their involvement in a doping conspiracy, why are they not all announcing their retirements (rather than just Hincapie?). They're surely not going to continue their careers courtesy of a plea bargain? Just doesn't add up.
    But what would be the point of a plea bargain otherwise?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    I think it's ar more likely that they opted out because they know they ve not got a chance. Working your arse off again, havin just finished the most prestigious 3 weeks, in a race that few people care about just to watch Tyler Farrar come 4th again would nt fill me with glee
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Not sure, I think the olympics is pretty special as an athlete, even if the RR itself is a bit of a chipper.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,249
    Jez mon wrote:
    Not sure, I think the olympics is pretty special as an athlete, even if the RR itself is a bit of a chipper.

    Yep, at least a couple of the four appear to have been quoted earlier in the season as saying that they were targeting the Olympics this year.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    Think they all probably realise that being at the centre of a humungous shit-storm at the Olympics if their names were leaked would be in nobody's best interests.
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  • skylla
    skylla Posts: 758
    Full Merckx wrote:
    LOL BBC as a source of info. If that's your knowledge base yer a knob.

    Can I suggest http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
    Peer reviewed, evidence based practice has always been my preferred source of info rather than PISH from the BBC

    Interesting Full Merckx. Have you seen this peer-reviewed paper at all?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=15774697

    Oops.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,548
    Jez mon wrote:
    Not sure, I think the olympics is pretty special as an athlete, even if the RR itself is a bit of a chipper.

    They've all heard about what goes on in the Olympic village when the sun goes down...
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The Olympic RR might be a bit of a 'chipper' as far as cycling afficianados are concerned, but in the eyes of the public, an Olympic Gold has as much cache as a TDF win, particularly as the TDF has been significantly devalued by the actions of Larry and the Hog...which conveniently gets this thread back on topic!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Glut4
    Glut4 Posts: 198
    skylla wrote:
    Full Merckx wrote:
    LOL BBC as a source of info. If that's your knowledge base yer a knob.

    Can I suggest http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
    Peer reviewed, evidence based practice has always been my preferred source of info rather than PISH from the BBC

    Interesting Full Merckx. Have you seen this peer-reviewed paper at all?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=15774697

    Oops.

    Not getting involved in your argument but have you seen these responses to the article you posted

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/99/4/1628.full.pdf+html

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/105/3/1020.full
  • Glut4
    Glut4 Posts: 198
    edited June 2012
    Glut4 wrote:
    skylla wrote:
    Full Merckx wrote:
    LOL BBC as a source of info. If that's your knowledge base yer a knob.

    Can I suggest http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
    Peer reviewed, evidence based practice has always been my preferred source of info rather than PISH from the BBC

    Interesting Full Merckx. Have you seen this peer-reviewed paper at all?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=15774697

    Oops.

    Not getting involved in your argument but have you seen these responses to the article you posted

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/99/4/1628.full.pdf+html

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/105/3/1020.full


    Also there is a discussion from the sports scientists blog here http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html. note the last paragraphs

    Between the publication of the paper in 2005 and the latest round of debate, there was also the matter of a court case in which Coyle was a paid expert witness on behalf of Armstrong. His testimony was aimed at building a credible case for how Armstrong could have dominated the sport for 7 years thanks to the remarkable physiology put forward in this paper. And so this study, with its holes, flaws and inaccuracies, actually went on to form part of a legal argument despite those problems. It also reveals a big part of Coyle's incentives, something we'll look at in our next post.

    These holes and flaws in the Coyle study however pale into insignificance when compared to the latest revelations, where analysis, and some "between the lines" reading of Coyle's data revealed outright errors in the research. That is, it's no longer a case of questionable methods and over-interpretations, it's now a matter of miscalculation and wrong results. All the way from the lab, into the media, and on into the court-room!
  • dsoutar
    dsoutar Posts: 1,746
    Glut4 wrote:
    Glut4 wrote:
    skylla wrote:
    Full Merckx wrote:
    LOL BBC as a source of info. If that's your knowledge base yer a knob.

    Can I suggest http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
    Peer reviewed, evidence based practice has always been my preferred source of info rather than PISH from the BBC

    Interesting Full Merckx. Have you seen this peer-reviewed paper at all?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=15774697

    Oops.

    Not getting involved in your argument but have you seen these responses to the article you posted

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/99/4/1628.full.pdf+html

    http://jap.physiology.org/content/105/3/1020.full


    Also there is a discussion from the sports scientists blog here http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/09/coyle-and-armstrong-research-errors.html. note the last paragraph

    Between the publication of the paper in 2005 and the latest round of debate, there was also the matter of a court case in which Coyle was a paid expert witness on behalf of Armstrong. His testimony was aimed at building a credible case for how Armstrong could have dominated the sport for 7 years thanks to the remarkable physiology put forward in this paper. And so this study, with its holes, flaws and inaccuracies, actually went on to form part of a legal argument despite those problems. It also reveals a big part of Coyle's incentives, something we'll look at in our next post.

    These holes and flaws in the Coyle study however pale into insignificance when compared to the latest revelations, where analysis, and some "between the lines" reading of Coyle's data revealed outright errors in the research. That is, it's no longer a case of questionable methods and over-interpretations, it's now a matter of miscalculation and wrong results. All the way from the lab, into the media, and on into the court-room!

    BINGO !!!
  • ms_tree
    ms_tree Posts: 1,405
    jibberjim wrote:
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Or didn't like East London.
    Urh? They aren't going any near East London - it's all in Surrey and West London.
    'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
    Neil Gaiman
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,858
    Ms Tree wrote:
    jibberjim wrote:
    FleshTuxedo wrote:
    Or didn't like East London.
    Urh? They aren't going any near East London - it's all in Surrey and West London.


    You're misquoting - it wasn't me slaggin off East London. Please sort your shit out Ms Tree, I could get pelted with jellied eels next time I'm dahn there....
  • Abdoujaparov
    Abdoujaparov Posts: 642
    I guess many (all?) will be staying in the olympic village. Probably get a choice, but it doesn't matter how loaded you are, you'd probably want to take in some of the atmos while you're in town.
  • Rundfahrt
    Rundfahrt Posts: 551
    Mainly just a lurker here, but reading this thread I have found two things:

    1) Some very interesting info/discussion

    2) None of the BS/bullying caused by a certain group of posters who dominate all Armstrong discussion on other cycling forums.
  • LeicesterLad
    LeicesterLad Posts: 3,908
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    Mainly just a lurker here, but reading this thread I have found two things:

    1) Some very interesting info/discussion

    2) None of the BS/bullying caused by a certain group of posters who dominate all Armstrong discussion on other cycling forums.

    Yeah, DennisN never did show up... :lol:

    On a serious note, long may it continue.
    http://www.twitter.com/InTheGC http://www.InTheGC.com http://www.facebook.com/intheGC

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