USADA files doping charges against Lance

rebs

Jimmy McArmstrong: What the f__k did I do?

afx237vi

Waaaaaay off topic, but fans of The Wire* should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_vQozw4N0o

*There are people who aren't??

BikingBernie

I think the guy in the real SS recruitment poster below looks less of a sociopath than LA does in that shot. Then again, perhaps that is to be expected given that Armstrong's Nietzschean 'Will to power' was so great that it even beat cancer.

LeicesterLad

afx237vi wrote:

Waaaaaay off topic, but fans of The Wire* should watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_vQozw4N0o

*There are people who aren't??

I know, Disgusting isn't it.

timoid.

BikingBernie wrote:

I think the guy in the real SS recruitment poster below looks less of a sociopath than LA does in that shot. Then again, perhaps that is to be expected given that Armstrong's Nietzschean 'Will to power' was so great that it even beat cancer.

Jeez you have some issues Bernie. Hate the doper if you like, but don't knock a guy for overcoming a terrible disease.

And wtf is there is always some loser in every debate that brings up the Nazis or Hitler?

iainf72

Timoid. wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

I think the guy in the real SS recruitment poster below looks less of a sociopath than LA does in that shot. Then again, perhaps that is to be expected given that Armstrong's Nietzschean 'Will to power' was so great that it even beat cancer.

Jeez you have some issues Bernie. Hate the doper if you like, but don't knock a guy for overcoming a terrible disease.

Doesn't he attribute his recovery to "good doctors and good luck", rather than his own epicness?

ocdupalais

When you walk through the garden, you gotta watch your teammates
Well, I beg your pardon, walk the straight and narrow track
When you walk with Bradley, he’s gonna save your soul
You got to keep Lance, well you gotta keep him down in the hole

He’s got the fire, people he’s got the fury at his command
We got to keep the Lance, keep him on down, down in the hole
That red horned lousy low-life underneath our boots


Yeah.

Monty Dog

Clearly. some folks been out for a liquid lunch (or something stronger), because I feel I've just tripped into a third-dimension...

mididoctors

haters goin' to hate

mididoctors

Monty Dog wrote:

Clearly. some folks been out for a liquid lunch (or something stronger), because I feel I've just tripped into a third-dimension...

it'll be the 5th dimension when nothing happens and he gets off

Anonymous

mididoctors wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Clearly. some folks been out for a liquid lunch (or something stronger), because I feel I've just tripped into a third-dimension...

it'll be the 5th dimension when nothing happens and he gets off

edit: deleted a load of rubbish. Added this:

Armstrong believes the building of a case on the testament of anonymous witnesses, who have reportedly been granted immunity from their own self-confessed doping activities, demonstrates a prior assumption of Armstrong's guilt by USADA and unwillingness to investigate him without prejudice.

You can kind of see his point. Surely the whole point is to get everyone, not gang up on one person. Make the sport clean, not to punish one guy more severely just because he made you all look like a bunch of incompetent chumps for 7 years.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/c ... arges.html

andy_wrx

Timoid. wrote:

And wtf is there is always some loser in every debate that brings up the Nazis or Hitler?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

skylla

andy_wrx wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

And wtf is there is always some loser in every debate that brings up the Nazis or Hitler?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

That's utterly ridiculous. Given enough time someone might mention 'green mice'. Given enough time a mouse on a keyboard will reproduce the complete works of Nietsche. Never mind...

bigdawg

coriordan wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Clearly. some folks been out for a liquid lunch (or something stronger), because I feel I've just tripped into a third-dimension...

it'll be the 5th dimension when nothing happens and he gets off

edit: deleted a load of rubbish. Added this:

Armstrong believes the building of a case on the testament of anonymous witnesses, who have reportedly been granted immunity from their own self-confessed doping activities, demonstrates a prior assumption of Armstrong's guilt by USADA and unwillingness to investigate him without prejudice.

You can kind of see his point. Surely the whole point is to get everyone, not gang up on one person. Make the sport clean, not to punish one guy more severely just because he made you all look like a bunch of incompetent chumps for 7 years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... arges.html

But this isn't about one person cheating in the tour or a witch hunt against one person - it's charges bought against a number of people, LA being one of them, who trafficked, administered and supplied drugs, amongst other things.

prawny

bigdawg wrote:

coriordan wrote:

mididoctors wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Clearly. some folks been out for a liquid lunch (or something stronger), because I feel I've just tripped into a third-dimension...

it'll be the 5th dimension when nothing happens and he gets off

edit: deleted a load of rubbish. Added this:

Armstrong believes the building of a case on the testament of anonymous witnesses, who have reportedly been granted immunity from their own self-confessed doping activities, demonstrates a prior assumption of Armstrong's guilt by USADA and unwillingness to investigate him without prejudice.

You can kind of see his point. Surely the whole point is to get everyone, not gang up on one person. Make the sport clean, not to punish one guy more severely just because he made you all look like a bunch of incompetent chumps for 7 years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... arges.html

But this isn't about one person cheating in the tour or a witch hunt against one person - it's charges bought against a number of people, LA being one of them, who trafficked, administered and supplied drugs, amongst other things.

Yep the media are playing right into Armstrong's hands it's not about busting a rider for doping, its about busting a doping ring and the people that run it not the customers. The more the news and people treat it like a normal doping investigation the more the weight it gives to lances arguments.

iainf72

Was having a read of the Asylum this afternoon, and it was the usual dross, aside from someone who wondered why Chris Carmichael wasn't on the list....

Yellow Peril

I just read Chris Horner's response on one of the links above. Is he really that naive or just being fiercely loyal?

BikingBernie

Timoid. wrote:

Hate the doper if you like, but don't knock a guy for overcoming a terrible disease.

He got lucky, had good medical treatment and survived. That is all.

Numerous studies have shown that a patients 'will to live' has no bearing on whether they do survive or not and even if Armstrong admits that he simply was lucky, plenty of others have portrayed his survival as a 'Triumph of the will' ( ). 'The man who beat cancer' and all that.

I see this emphasis on the role of 'will' in relation to cancer as being wholly unhelpful. For example, what attitude should be taken towards those who die of the disease? Imply that if they only had shown greater will to live they would have survived, so their demise is effectively their own fault? This narrative is so popular in the USA because fits in well with the American conception of 'meritocracy', where anyone who accrues great wealth must be held to be fully deserving of it and the 'failures' in life's rat race have only themselves to blame. However, both conceptions are a fraud.

Timoid. wrote:

And wtf is there is always some loser in every debate that brings up the Nazis or Hitler?

Just look at the photo! And at least three people drew the parallel before I commented on it!

inkyfingers

iainf72 wrote:

Was having a read of the Asylum this afternoon, and it was the usual dross, aside from someone who wondered why Chris Carmichael wasn't on the list....

Visiting that place is like shagging an ex, a short burst of excitement followed by a lot of bitterness and soul searching.

Yellow Peril

inkyfingers wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Was having a read of the Asylum this afternoon, and it was the usual dross, aside from someone who wondered why Chris Carmichael wasn't on the list....

Visiting that place is like shagging an ex, a short burst of excitement followed by a lot of bitterness and soul searching.

More like visiting a house of ill-repute. Do you feel dirty and wracked with self- loathing now Iain?

iainf72

Yellow Peril wrote:

More like visiting a house of ill-repute. Do you feel dirty and wracked with self- loathing now Iain?

I usually work in investment banking, so no more than usual.

emadden

mfin wrote:

The tone of that letter... christ :roll: ...I didn't realise there were lawyers that unprofessional out there, stating their opinion as fact etc, let alone the emotional charge of it all. Quite odd. Perhaps, its an American culture thing, I don't know.

You are spot on. It is a incredibly unprofessional letter, but unfortunately typical of some of the mid-tier US law firms - some of whom are closer to the "ambulance chaser" stereotype than you might believe. In courts/tribunals on this side of the pond, such a letter could undermine the case of a defendant as the unprofessionalism would be seen as unwarranted, disrespectful and inappropriate. The US system on the otherhand is a little more "open", and less couched in conservative behaviour... Anyway, these US shows make for good watching :-)

BikingBernie

ddraver wrote:

A Collation of Pro responses - http://bananasandwater.tumblr.com/

thanks Festinagirl...

From that link.

Geraint Thomas hopes Lance Armstrong clears name

"He has had numerous allegations thrown at him through the years but hopefully he hasn't done anything wrong. Hopefully people can let it go."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/18442349

Proof that some riders in Sky are on drugs, though not the performance enhancing kind.

dsoutar

Sorry - obviously not in the loop here. The Asylum ?

iainf72

dsoutar wrote:

Sorry - obviously not in the loop here. The Asylum ?

The Clinic on cyclingnews forums.

iainf72

Superb summary

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... nce-titles

BikingBernie

No word on twitter from Wiggo yet. He seems to think that talking about farting after eating beetroot soup is of more importance...

Going by festinagirl's links, plenty of pros seem to want to maintain both the myth and the omerta...

Squaggles

I'd rather Wiggins said nothing , Geraint Thomas should have probably kept quiet as well

timoid.

BikingBernie wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Hate the doper if you like, but don't knock a guy for overcoming a terrible disease.

He got lucky, had good medical treatment and survived. That is all.

Numerous studies have shown that a patients 'will to live' has no bearing on whether they do survive or not and even if Armstrong admits that he simply was lucky, plenty of others have portrayed his survival as a 'Triumph of the will' ( ). 'The man who beat cancer' and all that.

I see this emphasis on the role of 'will' in relation to cancer as being wholly unhelpful. For example, what attitude should be taken towards those who die of the disease? Imply that if they only had shown greater will to live they would have survived, so their demise is effectively their own fault? This narrative is so popular in the USA because fits in well with the American conception of 'meritocracy', where anyone who accrues great wealth must be held to be fully deserving of it and the 'failures' in life's rat race have only themselves to blame. However, both conceptions are a fraud.

Timoid. wrote:

And wtf is there is always some loser in every debate that brings up the Nazis or Hitler?

Just look at the photo! And at least three people drew the parallel before I commented on it!

You really are stupid. You made some jibe about him using Nazi-think to overcome cancer. I said that was out of order, which it is. I passed no comment on his super powers of doing so. He's a human being who got through a terrible ordeal. So quit the Nazi crap and quit interpreting other peoples statements wrongly in your snide manner.

I've lost people to cancer and some people I love have pulled through the same ordeal. It's horrible.

You see yourself as some anti-doping warrior, but you're just a smartarse bore. You trash every thread you are on with your windbagging and wilful misinterpretation of what others post and blatantly have no real interest or appreciation for cylcing. So kindly shove it up your hole and sod off someplace else you sad little man.

TMR

Blazing Saddles wrote:

As if things couldn't get any worse.
Looks like it's time for the UCI to demand another "Astana payment".
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radiosh ... -continues
SGDT.

That doesn't look good. It appears as though RSNT is going to explode spectacularly reading that article.