Hincapie
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:In fairness to Timoid, reflecting over Hincapie's career is quite difficult without considering the wild difference in his performances pre and post postal.
Perhaps, but it's a shame if the thread degenerates into a 'He's a dirty doper!111!1!!!'.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:In fairness to Timoid, reflecting over Hincapie's career is quite difficult without considering the wild difference in his performances pre and post postal.
Perhaps, but it's a shame if the thread degenerates into a 'He's a dirty doper!111!1!!!'.
Ah these things matter re-legacy.
The stuff around Hincape is a fair bit more concrete than the guff birnie can come out with.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Ah these things matter re-legacy.
The stuff around Hincape is a fair bit more concrete than the guff birnie can come out with.
And I accept that, but he has had a good career since Postal, so let's not forget about that just because he may or may not have doped.0 -
Hincapie was a rarity amongst modern cyclists in having such a long career. How he achieved that will be linked to his small palmares but like most domestiques he's played the system well.
Like people reading this will know, you have to impress your boss first and foremost and once you've done that, job security soon follows. He's been in the right place at the right time to make full use of the fact that he's a hard grafter who does what he's told.
No radical views, no pissing people off means that when it comes to contract negotiation, you'll keep getting hired. He's similar to Sean Yates in a lot of regards - Yates did well to fall in with Roche, Robert Millar, Andy Hampsten and use them to keep himself in employment and Hincapie has done the same with Armstrong, Contador, Cavendish and Evans. Look at people like Gregory Rast for the template carrying on - big "goombahs" who don't step out of line and do what they're told.
I remember reading about why he never won a Classic and the inference was because he wasn't a b*****d like Tchmil, Van Petegem, etc. He could never ride through people and be assertive enough to stick the knife in when it counted.
Nice guy who I've got a lot of time for - does a hell of a lot of hard graft that you never see, gets well paid and has salted that $$ away for investing into estate and a clothing company.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Ah these things matter re-legacy.
The stuff around Hincape is a fair bit more concrete than the guff birnie can come out with.
And I accept that, but he has had a good career since Postal, so let's not forget about that just because he may or may not have doped.
Don't forget he did some hideous things pre-postal. Check out that hair:
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:
I did say earlier I didn't want this thread to degenerate as the Wiggins thread did. It's a shame you and Andy couldn't have started a new thread to deal specifically with any views you have about doping.
Aw diddums, did the nasty boys come along and call your hero some bad names?
Man up. He's a pro cyclist who rode through an era when doping was all but the norm and he was clearly a beneficiary of it himself. Any assessment of his career has to consider that, whether you like it or not.0 -
andyp wrote:He's a pro cyclist who rode through an era when doping was all but the norm and he was clearly a beneficiary of it himself. Any assessment of his career has to consider that, whether you like it or not.
More eloquent forum members than you have already made that point, and if you'd bothered to read my earlier posts you'll have seen that I haven't buried my head in the sand about what he might have done in the past. I just didn't want the thread to focus purely on that. For the 2nd or 3rd time.0 -
Timoid. wrote:[Don't forget he did some hideous things pre-postal. Check out that hair:
Cor! I haven't seen that photo for YEARS :shock: Was that out of Winning? Now then, I can name Hincapie, Lance and Bobby J but who's the dude far left? That was definitely a class of '92 you'd want to be part of so I wonder what happened to the unknown?0 -
Matchstick Man wrote:Timoid. wrote:Cor! I haven't seen that photo for YEARS :shock: Was that out of Winning? Now then, I can name Hincapie, Lance and Bobby J but who's the dude far left? That was definitely a class of '92 you'd want to be part of so I wonder what happened to the unknown?
Jeff Evanshine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_EvanshineI'm left handed, if that matters.0 -
Ta k-dog for that, the name rings a bell but that entry tells.me why he never made the jump to the pro ranks like the other three.
Loving the fact that Bobby J is ROCKING those old Scott/Lemond drop-in bars in that photo.
Back in the day......0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:andyp wrote:He's a pro cyclist who rode through an era when doping was all but the norm and he was clearly a beneficiary of it himself. Any assessment of his career has to consider that, whether you like it or not.
More eloquent forum members than you have already made that point, and if you'd bothered to read my earlier posts you'll have seen that I haven't buried my head in the sand about what he might have done in the past. I just didn't want the thread to focus purely on that. For the 2nd or 3rd time.
More eloquent posters than you have eulogised far better riders than Hincapie who've been known to have been on the gear and have been given equally short shrift.
Personally, I have no interest in the career achievements of a rider who benefited from EPO - whether that's Hincapie or e.g. Pantani, regardless of whether they were nice blokes or not. Goodbye George, you helped some of the most notorious cheats in the sport make a laughing stock of cycling. Thanks for your efforts, don't forget to confess once you need a juicy book deal.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:
More eloquent forum members than you have already made that point, and if you'd bothered to read my earlier posts you'll have seen that I haven't buried my head in the sand about what he might have done in the past. I just didn't want the thread to focus purely on that. For the 2nd or 3rd time.
This might come as a shock to you, but you can't re-write history.0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:andyp wrote:He's a pro cyclist who rode through an era when doping was all but the norm and he was clearly a beneficiary of it himself. Any assessment of his career has to consider that, whether you like it or not.
More eloquent forum members than you have already made that point, and if you'd bothered to read my earlier posts you'll have seen that I haven't buried my head in the sand about what he might have done in the past. I just didn't want the thread to focus purely on that. For the 2nd or 3rd time.
More eloquent posters than you have eulogised far better riders than Hincapie who've been known to have been on the gear and have been given equally short shrift.
Personally, I have no interest in the career achievements of a rider who benefited from EPO - whether that's Hincapie or e.g. Pantani, regardless of whether they were nice blokes or not. Goodbye George, you helped some of the most notorious cheats in the sport make a laughing stock of cycling. Thanks for your efforts, don't forget to confess once you need a juicy book deal.
So you have had no interest in Cycling since the 70's then?
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Blimey, those wanting to re-write history are out in force today.0
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LeicesterLad wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:andyp wrote:He's a pro cyclist who rode through an era when doping was all but the norm and he was clearly a beneficiary of it himself. Any assessment of his career has to consider that, whether you like it or not.
More eloquent forum members than you have already made that point, and if you'd bothered to read my earlier posts you'll have seen that I haven't buried my head in the sand about what he might have done in the past. I just didn't want the thread to focus purely on that. For the 2nd or 3rd time.
More eloquent posters than you have eulogised far better riders than Hincapie who've been known to have been on the gear and have been given equally short shrift.
Personally, I have no interest in the career achievements of a rider who benefited from EPO - whether that's Hincapie or e.g. Pantani, regardless of whether they were nice blokes or not. Goodbye George, you helped some of the most notorious cheats in the sport make a laughing stock of cycling. Thanks for your efforts, don't forget to confess once you need a juicy book deal.
So you have had no interest in Cycling since the 70's then?
Not quite. EPO was a game changer, and it wasn't in use in the peloton until the late eighties earliest.
I watched on in innocence until Festina blew it all apart in '98, and only returned two years ago when it was clear LA was finally going to get nailed (if only in the court of public opinion) and that there were teams that were actively engaged in trying to clean up the sport. I didn't watch a single TdF stage, or even read reports, for over a decade. If they fail I'll be gone again.
On the "Wiggin's form" thread you'll see I'm arguing against Bernie's cynicism, but here I'm arguing against romanticising riders who were in the thick of it. I think I have an entirely consistent position, and it's one that I'll live by, not just preach here. I want to see clean cycling. Here and now we have a chance of it - not 100%, no sport will ever be 100% clean - but clean enough that clean riders can win stuff, and that dopers are fairly seriously restricted in how much advantage they can get. There's a long way still to go, but I think we've moved in the right direction since the height of EPO (difficult not to really). If it all falls apart and it turns out that Garmin and Sky both have institutional blood transfusions then that will be it for me, over and out. But while it looks like they're getting results clean then I hope they're leading the way to a sport where we don't think every rider must be dodgy.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:More eloquent posters than you have eulogised far better riders than Hincapie who've been known to have been on the gear and have been given equally short shrift.
Personally, I have no interest in the career achievements of a rider who benefited from EPO - whether that's Hincapie or e.g. Pantani, regardless of whether they were nice blokes or not. Goodbye George, you helped some of the most notorious cheats in the sport make a laughing stock of cycling. Thanks for your efforts, don't forget to confess once you need a juicy book deal.
Honestly, what's wrong with you f*cking people? You and Andy Penis? Is it really so hard to keep your stupid f*cking mouths shut and have one thread on the forum without moaning about what people might, did or didn't do in the past? Why spoil a farewell thread? I shouldn't be surprised - it's human nature that sometimes people are just stupid c*nts and you two have illustrated that perfectly.
Jesus - you really are a pair of f*cking pr*cks :roll:0 -
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The Mad Rapper wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:More eloquent posters than you have eulogised far better riders than Hincapie who've been known to have been on the gear and have been given equally short shrift.
Personally, I have no interest in the career achievements of a rider who benefited from EPO - whether that's Hincapie or e.g. Pantani, regardless of whether they were nice blokes or not. Goodbye George, you helped some of the most notorious cheats in the sport make a laughing stock of cycling. Thanks for your efforts, don't forget to confess once you need a juicy book deal.
Honestly, what's wrong with you f*cking people? You and Andy Penis? Is it really so hard to keep your stupid f*cking mouths shut and have one thread on the forum without moaning about what people might, did or didn't do in the past? Why spoil a farewell thread? I shouldn't be surprised - it's human nature that sometimes people are just stupid c*nts and you two have illustrated that perfectly.
Jesus - you really are a pair of f*cking pr*cks :roll:
Thanks for that Mad.
Basically, while you think George is a top bloke that served cycling well, I think he's an utter **** that helped to nearly destroy cycling. I missed over a decade of a sport I love because of c*nts like Hincapie, sorry if I won't let you build your f*cking shrine to him here.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:
Honestly, what's wrong with you f*cking people? You and Andy Penis? Is it really so hard to keep your stupid f*cking mouths shut and have one thread on the forum without moaning about what people might, did or didn't do in the past? Why spoil a farewell thread? I shouldn't be surprised - it's human nature that sometimes people are just stupid c*nts and you two have illustrated that perfectly.
Jesus - you really are a pair of f*cking pr*cks :roll:
Are you 12?
Grow up.0 -
andyp wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:
Honestly, what's wrong with you f*cking people? You and Andy Penis? Is it really so hard to keep your stupid f*cking mouths shut and have one thread on the forum without moaning about what people might, did or didn't do in the past? Why spoil a farewell thread? I shouldn't be surprised - it's human nature that sometimes people are just stupid c*nts and you two have illustrated that perfectly.
Jesus - you really are a pair of f*cking pr*cks :roll:
Are you 12?
Grow up.
3 month old baby = lack of sleep, perhaps?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
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No tA Doctor wrote:Thanks for that Mad.
Basically, while you think George is a top bloke that served cycling well, I think he's an utter **** that helped to nearly destroy cycling. I missed over a decade of a sport I love because of c*nts like Hincapie, sorry if I won't let you build your f*cking shrine to him here.
Destroy cycling? F*ck off - what a load of sh*t. If you love the sport, then love it. Don't f*cking moan like a little girl because humans were human. Do you think the sport is clean now? Is it f*ck. Pull your head out of your arse.0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:3 month old baby = lack of sleep, perhaps?
Don't patronise me. I'm just p*ssed off with you two for ruining this thread. F*cking strap ons.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:andyp wrote:Are you 12?
Grow up.
F*ck you. Idiot.
I think you need to calm down a bit Mad. I've never seen you go off on one like this before and it seems out of character. I don't want to see you banned, but posts like that might not leave ADMIN a great deal of choice - it will at least put them in a difficult position (trust me, I've been ADMIN on another forum, it's a no win situation, either you're consistent and everyone accuses of you of Stalinist inflexibility, or you're flexible and everyone accuses you of favouritism).
Do ADMIN a favour and ask for deletion, whatever you really think.
As for my personal position on the actual issue, please read this: viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12859234&start=60#p17673105 I'm not just shooting from the hip, it's a position I've held for a long time. I mean it, I stick by it, and it demeans both of us for you to suggest it's worthless without engaging with it.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
ddraver wrote:[Peacemaker attempt]
We re moving in to Chasey bothering territory here MR - You re a valuable member of this section, don't get yourself kicked off for something so silly...
[/Peacemaker attempt]
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