Etape Caledonia - how hilly?
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I'm just in front of you Uggi at 7.08, maybe we could slipstream one another, I'm carrying a few pounds extra. Just trying to make it round and have a good time.0
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don't worry big lads, 106kgs here and made it round in under 5 hours last year, hoping for 4.5 this time, at least the windier conditions will favour the heavier rider, more inertial mass and all that. Never know, although certain to be chilly first thing, the sun may shine on us so long as you are round by 13.00hrs.fay ce que voudres0
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The wind is looking proper horrific! Met Office says 25mph gusting 50mph at the west end of Loch Rannoch.You've no won the Big Cup since 1902!0
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Yep, looks like it's going to be proper windy - get in a big bunch for the first leg and you'll get to the end of Loch Rannoch fine - then here's hoping for a big tailwind home...
Unfortunately the wind is forecast to be SW, meaning that the north side of the lochs will be more exposed than the south, so we can expect the headwind will be stronger than the tailwind. But then it always is, isn't it? ;-)
And the descent from Schiehallion heads a bit SW at first so not so easy to pick up speed there, and the Fortingall loop will be nasty - I always find it a big drag anyway. But once you turn the corner in Glen Lyon there'll be a real blast all the way to Logierait - the wee hilly road after that looks about right angles to the wind and should be a bit sheltered anyway.
At least it looks like the anticyclone is keeping the fronts away to the north, so hopefully no rain, and maybe not quite so cold as recently.
@fnb1 - the idea that inertia keeps you going into the wind is a bit of a myth: if you are keeping up a constant speed, weight has almost nothing to do with it - the vast majority of work goes into overcoming wind resistance, which depends mainly on frontal surface area.
The reason that bigger riders do better into the wind is that, on average, the increase in power is greater than the increase in surface area.0 -
Er , no, the larger the Inertial Mass, the more enegry required to change its velocity, it is why the fallen leaves get blown about as we cycle smoothly by but the twigs and branches lie on the ground.
Its why we pie-eaters go downhill faster (well actually we don't, we just accelerate faster, assuming both freewheeling, similar mechanical drag etc) than the racing snakes, same energy input, e.g. Gravity, more or less same wind resistance (drag) , only difference Inertial Mass, the difference in drag of the smaller rider versus the bigger rider is small compared to the difference in inertial mass, until you get to serious speeds (e.g. approaching your terminal velocity, which will be calculated on your co-efficient of Drag, mass, etc and will be slightly different for each indvidual, gets more complicated when you start to through in variables like different weight rims etc but then we begin to sund too much like time trialists) where again due to the same inertial mass and the constant exponential increase of the drag as speed increases, requires ever more power to over come it
Basically E=MC2 and all that (regardless of Planck and other theories (slightly) contrary to it).
Doubtless a physicist may be along shortly to put some numbers on it, all I know, is on a fast sweeping decent, me and my 106kgs stand still in time as the hill drops away the only sound the whirring of the freewheel and the sound of adrenilin pumping
and the skinny fellas are behind pedalling hard to keep up, but alas do we pay for it when the road goes back up 
fay ce que voudres0 -
Errr, a physicist has been along, and you weren't listening.fnb1 wrote:Doubtless a physicist may be along shortly
E=mc^2 has no relevance at all, nor does
which is just as well, as it states that if you go fast enough (close to the speed of light, say about 600 million mph) then less time appears to pass for you than the timekeepers, so you will get a slower time than your computer told you.
F=ma is the relevant equation here: and when the forces balance, i.e. amount to zero, there is no acceleration - regardless of what m (mass) is. If you imagine a particularly dense cyclist (not hard to do ;-)) made of lead, say, who is going along into the wind at a steady speed: the air resistance is the same as any other rider of the same size, so the effort required is the same as an ordinary cyclist who weighs ten times less, despite having ten times the inertia. In other words inertia is not relevant at all: the reason bigger cyclists tend to be better into the wind is that their greater power outweighs the small difference in wind resistance.
Downhill is another matter, but a similar principle - you reach terminal velocity when the forces balance: a heavier cyclist has a greater gravitational force on them, so he will have a greater terminal velocity i.e. go faster downhill. But inertial mass is in fact responsible for the fact that he will not accelerate downhill quicker - because the greater force of gravity is exactly cancelled out by the greater inertia. (Obviously this principle only applies until you're going fast enough for wind resistance to be significant, i.e. if you line up a heavy and a light cyclist at the top of a slope and they freewheel down it, they will accelerate at the same rate at first, but gradually the pie-eater will accelerate faster).
Hope that helps ;-)0 -
Talking of pies, are they giving out sausage rolls again at the top of Schiehallion?
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Good idea, a bit of ballast for the descent :-)0
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The way it's looking it's a snow plough we may need for the descent! :shock:0
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I can stick a bit of cold & wet, but seem to have a real mental problem with headwind, it really saps my motivation / energy when you are putting out an effort but still going slow.
That said, I normally ride solo, so guess I just need to try and get in a group and shelter a bit!
Anyway, looking forward to it and the weather will be what it will be - no point fretting.0 -
GarryBoy there are no groups at the back trust me I was there last year. May join you on the 7:08 start along with Robert 72. My number is 4951. At the moment lwith the predictied winds looking just to finish before the sweep vehicle.
I think i maybe the biggest rider out there at 130Kgs, thank god for hand built wheels.
One of the motivational factors for the Schiellion is the suasage rolls at the top, so they better be there.
Seriously thanks for all the info on here I done this last year and with the regular submitters to this thread wouldnt have made it. That nasty little hill just after the left turn bend wont catch me thats for sure.0 -
I agree, there are no groups to be had at the rear/last waves, hence why I for an earlier time/start Wave R 7:04 for me!0
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Trying to look at the positives in the forecast....uummm I guess in some ways the wind will makes things interesting as the closed roads will be one of very few chances most of us will get to ride in a proper echelon on UK roads.
Well apart from the gusting up to 50 mph im not looking forward to that!0 -
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There is a very "Anne Robinsonesque" woman who calls in the starting waves. She gives you an evil stare and shouts at you if you try to go in a wave BEFORE your alloted time. But she's too busy to make a real thing of it! You can drop back a wave no problem.Garryboy wrote:d4evr wrote:I agree, there are no groups to be had at the rear/last waves, hence why I for an earlier time/start Wave R 7:04 for me!
Hmmm - I take it they check to make sure you are in your allocated 'wave'?You've no won the Big Cup since 1902!0 -
Mile 20 to 30 and 54 to 58 will be the worst, other than that it's either helping or partly sheltered.Omar Little wrote:Trying to look at the positives in the forecast....uummm I guess in some ways the wind will makes things interesting as the closed roads will be one of very few chances most of us will get to ride in a proper echelon on UK roads.
Well apart from the gusting up to 50 mph im not looking forward to that!You've no won the Big Cup since 1902!0 -
It'll be a doddle!!0 -
I think you meant "it'll be a breeze"Rollemynot wrote:
It'll be a doddle!!
You need to get the actual address of the pic for flickr - click on the pic, then actions -> all sizes: this will give you the address:
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Ta - kinda lost the effect.............But here goes
It'll be a breeze 0 -
I think I will just give up! Wave O 6 580
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Well, that seems to have settled it. It's mostly flat on closed roads. You can make even this route a killer- just ride faster! 0
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Garryboy and Uggi, maybe we could start our own group ? my number is 3945. Sausage rolls at the top...mmmmmm0
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Rob72 ill keep an eye out, although you will spit me out the back at the queens view hill. Last year didnt make it up the Schenllion did the walk of shame. Getting even more concerned looking at the latest weather forecast, but nothing we can do so looking forward to it in a strange way.0
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Any forumites fancy meeting up I'll be in McKay's Hotel for a beer or two from 8pmYou've no won the Big Cup since 1902!0
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Leaving sunny Ayr just now to go and sign in, everyone enjoy it and stay safe.0
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Just heading off from sunny Rutherglen to register then staying in Dunkeld. Have a good one everybody!0
