Etape Caledonia - how hilly?

Pumpkin Positive

The Etape Caledonia website indicates 1949m of ascent in 131km (6394ft / 81miles). I thought that sounded a little high particularly as about half of the route follows the shoreline of Lochs Tummel and Rannoch.

Plotting the route on mapometer.com it comes out at 942m - a discrepancy of 1005m. Does anyone know where the truth lies here?

http://www.mapometer.com/cycling/route_1933352.html

Brian B

Its not hilly at all. I cycle that area routinely and I can only think of the climb of Shiehallion(spelling might be iffy) that has any substance on the route and even then its fairly easy. You'll probably get other's here claiming otherwise but just look at the times for the distance in previous outings and you will see average speeds are pretty high.

Its a pity this event is so flat as there are some good climbs close by that would have made it more appealing to the average sportive rider. This event attracts all walks of life and probably because its so easy.

AndyD2574

Dont know where they get that from................its a lovely relatively flat course with 1 hill in the middle............potential for a rapid time and course. Dont worry!

Omar Little

My garmin log from last year had about 1120 metres

Its a bit lumpy at the start but nothing too bad. However it is at the start so you might end up getting caught up in the excitement and going up them a bit hard! After that flat along the shoreline then big climb at Schiehallion after about 45 miles then flat downhill for a while then a bit lumpy after the at Logierait (about 65-70 ish miles). Its a fast course the first wee steep bit at Logierait is the section that most riders seem to struggle on but a large part of that is due to it catching people unaware and them hitting it in the big ring and having to shift under load.

thecrofter

It's probably the easiest/fastest long ride you'll ever do. Great fun and a real confidence builder. Beautiful scenery, although I'm a bit biased it's where I'm from.

pedylan

I've done this event since it's first year in 2007. Right from the start the organisers publicised the 2000m+ of climbing and you have to agree they've at least been consistent. The fact is though, they are consistently wrong. No webbased route programme or bike mounted gps remotely agrees with the organisers. Every one of these other measurements weighs in with around 1000m give or take 100m. It doesn't even feel like 2000m. If you've done other sprortives with real cumulative ascent figures it'll soon become apparent. Early climb up to Queen's view; big effort over Schiehallion and then that sting in the tail at Logierat and that's the extent of the climbs

Don't know why the organsiers persist with this figure, it seems a pity if it's to appeal to the maximum endurance machismo that there is around a lot of amateur events (not just cycling).

Ignore all that though. The course is great, the closed roads a terrific experience and it has its place as a great cycling event for riders of a range of abilities. I'm back this year.

Let's hope it's not too "tacksing" an event this time.

bompington

Ahh, this one is now even more a traditional part of the build-up than the local nimbies whining, since they've been a bit quiet these last couple of years (word is they want to make a nuisance of themselves when it comes to the event licence getting renewed).

Most figures seem to be much lower as described above: I have managed to get a figure of 1800m or so by laboriously plotting the route on Memory Map (it doesn't automatically generate a route along roads, just point to point). MM is based on OS data that I would assume is more accurate than the height fields used by the likes of google maps, and in my experience GPS altitudes are more or less complete fiction. The route has a lot of small undulations, especially along the lochs where the road does go up and down the hillside a bit: I guess this might not register on smaller scale mapping - perhaps the organisers have access to very accurate data, which would inevitably mean a higher figure, because the more accurate you get, the more tiny dips & rises get added in.

Or perhaps they're just exaggerating for effect, of course. In the end pretty much everyone agrees that it's not really very hilly at all. If you're worried about hills, don't be: if you're hoping for a tough (hilly) ride, well it's not really, but if you want to make it a challenge, GBO from the start and you will get tired enough!

But do note Omar's warning about the little hill at Logierait, it comes after a long flat section and catches people napping, it's always one of the great entertainments of the event to hear the sound of gears grinding as people wake up and desperately try and drop about 16 gears in one go. Chains have certainly snapped on this bit. It's basically a short 10% climb but I think the initial ramp may be slightly steeper. And the couple of little hills in the last few miles after it will efficiently remove whatever you've got left in your legs.

AndyD2574

This is THE easiest sportive I have done..............and I've done alot.

To the OP.............you wont even notice the 'climbs' apart from the Schiehallion but remember there are that many people riding you get carried along with groups anyway.

Enjoy

bompington

Brian B wrote:

Its a pity this event is so flat as there are some good climbs close by that would have made it more appealing to the average sportive rider. This event attracts all walks of life and probably because its so easy.

The idea of a "Caledonia Mor" that took in the Bridge of Balgie road (557m) and glen quaich (537m) has often come up, but that would mean closing more roads, some of them fairly major ones with no easy detour.

And of course Glenshee (660m) is only 30 miles from Pitlochry: another 35 or so takes you to the Lecht at the same kind of height; then on to ....

Actually, I don't think the relative ease of the route is the attraction, without any doubt it's the closed roads; I would bet that very few would be put off entering if it did include more climbing - most "fun-pedallers", or whatever the quivalent of fun-runners is, think it is a hilly and challenging course.

Brian B

I know a lot people who have done this event and most return year in/year out and they tell me its not the closed roads that's attractive to them - its a nice 80mile ride in stunning scenery with good company. Most agree its not very hard and thats why they do it so they can have a right good chat with mates on the way round and do it with others who are not as fit but see this as their annual challange. Most go with their better halves and stay the night before and make a good weekend out of it. Nothing wrong with that but others who like a challenge have done it once, enjoyed it but will spend their cash on a more challenging route in future. The event does not suffer though and obviously sells out ever year.

The climbs you mentioned are the ones I do on a regular basis(not the Lecht, I do that on another route) and tack them onto the route but agree it would be hard to close the roads for them. Opens up the argument that you need closed roads though. I cycled up from Crief two weeks ago over Glen Quaich up Glen Lyons and over the B.O.Balgie climb and saw only 11 cars(and I counted them). Most other sportives dont close roads and get on fine without them.

thecrofter

Brian B wrote:

Most other sportives dont close roads and get on fine without them.

Most other sportives don't have 5000 entrants

d4evr

Did this last year and it was my first event of this type and longest ride I had ever done. I got round, albeit not that quickly, but that wasn't what it was about for me, it was a challenge and I did it! As for hills, lumpy up to Queens View (which I had forgotten about come event day), Schiehallion, then the steep short climb at Logierait. However I found the last two or three climbs after Logierait really sapping, but your nearly home and its kind of downhill to Pitlochry. The best thing about it for me was, a day out with like minded, positive people. I loved it and am back for more this year!!

Alain Quay

The amazing thing about Etape Caledonia is the brilliant tailwinds to be enjoyed.

I was up that way recemtly and found a road from Kenmore to Dunkeld via Glen Quaich - what a beast of a hill.
Including that ome - or Glen Lyon - would make Etape Caledonia a mega challange. I can see a tougher version emerging in a few years' time as Perthshire is great for biking.

Stedman

bompington wrote:

Ahh, this one is now even more a traditional part of the build-up than the local nimbies whining, since they've been a bit quiet these last couple of years (word is they want to make a nuisance of themselves when it comes to the event licence getting renewed).

I think that you may find that this local NIMBY group now consists of one man and if anything the pressure is now facing the other way where the majority of the local people will not want their cycle event taken away from them.

See: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Perths ... donia.html

bompington

Stedman wrote:

bompington wrote:

Ahh, this one is now even more a traditional part of the build-up than the local nimbies whining, since they've been a bit quiet these last couple of years (word is they want to make a nuisance of themselves when it comes to the event licence getting renewed).

I think that you may find that this local NIMBY group now consists of one man and if anything the pressure is now facing the other way where the majority of the local people will not want their cycle event taken away from them.

See: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Perths ... donia.html

Yes, I know that, you know that, and almost everyone knows that except them. I don't think it is just one man, it might be as many as 20 :-), but for sure it's one man who provides the leadership, the PR savvy - and the obsession.

Stedman

bompington wrote:

Stedman wrote:

bompington wrote:

Ahh, this one is now even more a traditional part of the build-up than the local nimbies whining, since they've been a bit quiet these last couple of years (word is they want to make a nuisance of themselves when it comes to the event licence getting renewed).

I think that you may find that this local NIMBY group now consists of one man and if anything the pressure is now facing the other way where the majority of the local people will not want their cycle event taken away from them.

See: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Perths ... donia.html

Yes, I know that, you know that, and almost everyone knows that except them. I don't think it is just one man, it might be as many as 20 :-), but for sure it's one man who provides the leadership, the PR savvy - and the obsession.

Your point is well put.

I do find it ironic that we do not hear a murmur from this group when these very roads are closed for days due to adverse weather or weeks because of road works, however when the local authority wishes to close these roads for a few hours and the greater benefit of local economy, then they make a major fuss.

The local comments that I received that I received about this group were nowhere as polite as we have been on this forum. The general consensus is 'please ignore them as they do not represent us or our interests on this matter'!

meanredspider

It must be a huge money-spinner for the area judging by accommodation prices. I was hoping to pop down on the day but the registration process prevents that being realistic.

I'm looking forward to it. It looks pretty flat (by Highland standards) - I'm not used to cycling on the flat. Just hope the rain has gone by then. It will be the furthest I've ridden but it looks to be a fairly gentle way to break myself in. Talking to the Marie Curie fundraiser that phone me, most people she'd spoken to don't normally cycle and had done no training.

bompington

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not used to cycling on the flat

As excuses go that's priceless ;-)

thecrofter

meanredspider wrote:

I'm looking forward to it. It looks pretty flat (by Highland standards) - I'm not used to cycling on the flat. Just hope the rain has gone by then. It will be the furthest I've ridden but it looks to be a fairly gentle way to break myself in. .

Looking at the profile for your commute (and knowing the roads), you'll beast the Etape!

thecrofter

On the side note of the protester. My wife is the retail buyer for a large chain of Scottish stores one of her departments is the food hall. I recently saw her with a brochure for a new supplier she was hoping to do business with, "The Highland Choclatier". After a short conversation with me she has now dropped the idea

Stedman

meanredspider wrote:

I'm looking forward to it. It looks pretty flat (by Highland standards) - I'm not used to cycling on the flat.

It certainly looks very flat by Himalayan or even Cornwall standards!

meanredspider

bompington wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not used to cycling on the flat

As excuses go that's priceless ;-)

PMSL - it wasn't meant to be an excuse but that's a great idea

I love hoofing along on flat roads - it's such a novelty - there's a section of road out of Cromarty that's next to the firth and that's flat and it's brilliant (it stands out like a sore thumb on my wind-and-hail ride last night http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171142798). I know I'm going to have to use my HRM to pace myself else I will get carried away and GBO from the off.

Redhog14

I did this event last year as my first ever all tarmac event (Dirty MTB convert) and absolutley loved it. I persuaded a few friends to take part too, problem is for 2012 I missed the entry line as in the previous year it did not sell out quite so quick, either that or the non charity entry numbers were higher that year. It is a great event and the local support is nothing but fantastic, from the pipers in their gardens to the families offering tea and cake at the road side i can't wait to do it again hopefully in 2013.
If it were to be improved I would suggest they include a longer route with perhaps Glen Quaich as an option for a limited number.

I also know the route really well and was only too ready for the "wee lift" at Logierait having had 20 or so guys power past me on the level section approach, it felt quite good to not be stuck struggling for gears and to pass them all again on the climb, I was riding a 32 on the back though..

oneof1982

Have ridden this a couple of times, and will do so again next month. Essentially it is a chase around the lochs with one big climb. Get yourself on a back wheel and cling on. If you get spat out, don't worry there will be another group along in a minute! The closed roads are a real source of the fun in the event. Effectively there is very little slowing down, allowing big groups to form up and ride fast together. Word of warning though, if you are off the pace, keep into the left hand side.

Stedman

oneof1982 wrote:

Word of warning though, if you are off the pace, keep into the left hand side.

At 10s 10lbs the biggest problem that I find is getting boxed in by larger riders who rapidly decelerate on the early uphill lumps.

d4evr

Stedman wrote:

oneof1982 wrote:

Word of warning though, if you are off the pace, keep into the left hand side.

At 10s 10lbs the biggest problem that I find is getting boxed in by larger riders who rapidly decelerate on the early uphill lumps.

That will be me then!! :oops:

bompington

d4evr wrote:

Stedman wrote:

oneof1982 wrote:

Word of warning though, if you are off the pace, keep into the left hand side.

At 10s 10lbs the biggest problem that I find is getting boxed in by larger riders who rapidly decelerate on the early uphill lumps.

That will be me then!! :oops:

and me... actually I find it quite inconsiderate of riders when I'm wheelsucking, they should be speeding up to my requirements downhill and easing up when the road heads up ;-)

meanredspider

I really hope that the weather improves - struggling to hit 16mph downhill last night due to the wind...

Omar Little

What wave are people starting in? I'm in A this year, feeling the pressure already

bompington

Time for the Bompinvite: still a (now small) number of places on saturday night for forumites at the cottage in Pitlochry if you're willing to sleep on the floor or put up with Crofter's snoring. PM me if you're interested, first come first served!

Omar - I'm in D, so 6 minutes behind you. I'm not expecting to catch up much :oops: , I only put in for a 4 hour time to try and motivate myself to train. Almost worked...

thecrofter

Wave G - 6.42

Snoring!!!!!! - have you been talking to my wife Mr B.