Milan - San Remo *spoiler*
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:Dave_1 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Why is there not more focus on THE favourite bottling it with almost 100km still to go?
What want to know is - how the hell did he win it in 2009, and does Cavendish himself know the answer to that?
His chat beforehand this year was one who was confident he had the form to win it, and given that he has, you'd assume that wasn't bluff (since what's the point of bluffing form when you don't have any?)
what surprises me a little is that the team use a science based approach,SRMs and talk of marginal gains but Cav's lack of form should maybe have been picked up in the weeks prior to the race by a decent sized gathering of his own team for race pace rides.
I noticed he did not contest the sprint on day 5 of Tirreno saying he didn 't feel good and DNFd day 6. Oman was not great for him. There haven't been enough hard races close to Milan San remo to test Cav in but in training perhaps they could have?? Cav look not even close to being capable of taking Cipressa or Poggio..guess he might be over trained or ill but the team rode for him like they did not have that knowledge.
Agreed.
But unlike track racing, road racing isn't about doing 'x' watts over 'x' distance. If a strong climbing team (Liquigas) drills it on the climbs, Cavendish is gone. If they would have drilled it on the flats he would have been fine. The year he won it, probably no-one drilled it enough on the climbs. It's no always the course that makes it hard/easy, it's how the riders/teams ride it. (I feel like i'm teaching a granny to suck eggs here, but it seems to have been forgotten?)0 -
TailWindHome wrote:RichN95 wrote:johnfinch wrote:Pity Sky didn't really have seem to have a plan B though.
They did, but that didn't work either and he came 25th.
Or did they just not jettison Cavendish quickly enough...
Not easy to do that do the world champion.
Where there any other big names in the Cavendish group?
This hits the nail on the head. Difficult to jettison the world champion but that was the course of action required. Cav looked horrible on that climb and the call needed to be made to ride for EBH then. Easy to say as a keyboard DS though.0 -
Seriously enjoyed watching Spart slam down some power yesterday really inspiring.
Shame about Cav really but maybe EBH wasn't feeling tip top either hence not much emphasis put on him.It's not so much about winning, I just hate losing.0 -
EKIMIKE wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Dave_1 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Why is there not more focus on THE favourite bottling it with almost 100km still to go?
What want to know is - how the hell did he win it in 2009, and does Cavendish himself know the answer to that?
His chat beforehand this year was one who was confident he had the form to win it, and given that he has, you'd assume that wasn't bluff (since what's the point of bluffing form when you don't have any?)
what surprises me a little is that the team use a science based approach,SRMs and talk of marginal gains but Cav's lack of form should maybe have been picked up in the weeks prior to the race by a decent sized gathering of his own team for race pace rides.
I noticed he did not contest the sprint on day 5 of Tirreno saying he didn 't feel good and DNFd day 6. Oman was not great for him. There haven't been enough hard races close to Milan San remo to test Cav in but in training perhaps they could have?? Cav look not even close to being capable of taking Cipressa or Poggio..guess he might be over trained or ill but the team rode for him like they did not have that knowledge.
Agreed.
But unlike track racing, road racing isn't about doing 'x' watts over 'x' distance. If a strong climbing team (Liquigas) drills it on the climbs, Cavendish is gone. If they would have drilled it on the flats he would have been fine. The year he won it, probably no-one drilled it enough on the climbs. It's no always the course that makes it hard/easy, it's how the riders/teams ride it. (I feel like i'm teaching a granny to suck eggs here, but it seems to have been forgotten?)
But it's not like Cav and Sky would have been surprised that rival teams were drilling him on the climbs, it's a well publicised (possibly over-estimated*) weakness of his. So Sky will have been estimating his ability to get over the climbs quickly enough, and presumably concluded that he was in good shape.
*He's not a good climber, but the way some people go on about it, you'd think he finished hours behind on every mountain stage in the GTs, all on his own!You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Jez mon wrote:*He's not a good climber, but the way some people go on about it, you'd think he finished hours behind on every mountain stage in the GTs, all on his own!
He'll never be alone as long as the cars are around :P
Even with a different mix of team mates yesterday, EBH wouldn't have won.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
EKIMIKE wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Dave_1 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Why is there not more focus on THE favourite bottling it with almost 100km still to go?
What want to know is - how the hell did he win it in 2009, and does Cavendish himself know the answer to that?
His chat beforehand this year was one who was confident he had the form to win it, and given that he has, you'd assume that wasn't bluff (since what's the point of bluffing form when you don't have any?)
what surprises me a little is that the team use a science based approach,SRMs and talk of marginal gains but Cav's lack of form should maybe have been picked up in the weeks prior to the race by a decent sized gathering of his own team for race pace rides.
I noticed he did not contest the sprint on day 5 of Tirreno saying he didn 't feel good and DNFd day 6. Oman was not great for him. There haven't been enough hard races close to Milan San remo to test Cav in but in training perhaps they could have?? Cav look not even close to being capable of taking Cipressa or Poggio..guess he might be over trained or ill but the team rode for him like they did not have that knowledge.
Agreed.
But unlike track racing, road racing isn't about doing 'x' watts over 'x' distance. If a strong climbing team (Liquigas) drills it on the climbs, Cavendish is gone. If they would have drilled it on the flats he would have been fine. The year he won it, probably no-one drilled it enough on the climbs. It's no always the course that makes it hard/easy, it's how the riders/teams ride it. (I feel like i'm teaching a granny to suck eggs here, but it seems to have been forgotten?)
Thanks for the education on the difference between track and road
. Cav is on form and was just unlucky yesterday..I should have known.. :idea: 0 -
People talking about how Sky can't transfer success from the track....have I gone back to 2010?"I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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iainf72 wrote:Even with a different mix of team mates yesterday, EBH wouldn't have won.
Why do you say that? I would've thought EBH was just the sort of rider who'd have had a chance getting on Nibali's wheel, and if he had of, he'd've probably got the sprint. AFAIK he only had Thomas for company on the Poggio. A few more team mates could've helped him to keep his position near the front to keep an eye out for the Poggio escapees.
When Cav originally dropped back, the Sky boys seemed to ride ahead and leave him with just Eisel. I commented at the time that I thought he might have been abandoned by his other teammates as they may have already known that Cav was not in great form, and they were switching to plan EBH. Cav and Eisel struggled on their own for quite a while, before the at least another 3 Sky boys appeared - I assume they dropped back for him, but with 20-20 hindsight it seems they sent back too many. I really think EBH is just the sort of rider who could win MSR one day.0 -
inkyfingers wrote:People talking about how Sky can't transfer success from the track....have I gone back to 2010?
well deeerrr....
Cav did nt win a race ergo he is totally finished as a rider and a human being. Sky as a direct result of saturday are now the worst team ever created and will never win any race ever ever again! Ever!!
What's wrong with you, don't you get it? Do you live in some real world where sportsmen have bad days and then recover or something? Can teams screw things up, learn from it, and return stronger again in your crazy world of reality?
WTF??
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I was thinking he was looking distinctly middle-aged with that flabby gut.phil s wrote:Personally I think one issue Cav has is genuine weight loss. In Qatar I was told his weight was 72kg, and apparently that was really great because he was only 3kgs off the 69kg he gets to by the end of the Tour de France. I'm taller than Cav and if I get to 72kg I give myself a kick up the ars*. If they're saying Cav being 72kg was really good news I'm amazed. I saw him getting changed after the stage 4 debacle where Sky lost any GC hopes for their star asset and I was struck by how un-athletic his body looks - the guy carries way too much flesh that contributes nothing (other than insulation on a very cold day). He is an exceptionally talented finishing sprinter but I can't help but think he could be more if he addressed his body composition.
**Finally to say, I don't like the guy one bit - and I'm far from the only one - but the above is an objective appraisal on a sporting level, and I think the pic below speaks volumes.
Could it be the Ullrich scenario: too much PR-related stuff in the off season? Not the best year to be doing crash diets as the summer deadlines draw nearer.0 -
ratsbeyfus wrote:iainf72 wrote:
Why do you say that? I would've thought EBH was just the sort of rider who'd have had a chance getting on Nibali's wheel, and if he had of, he'd've probably got the sprint. AFAIK he only had Thomas for company on the Poggio. A few more team mates could've helped him to keep his position near the front to keep an eye out for the Poggio escapees.
He moved up quite easily earlier in the race, got into the right position. But as soon as the pace went up, he went backwards. He couldn't have won because he didn't have the legs.
As teams, Liquigas, BMC and OPQS all looked better than Sky on the day too. Not saying Sky were awful, there were just better teams.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Le Commentateur wrote:
I was thinking he was looking distinctly middle-aged with that flabby gut.phil s wrote:Personally I think one issue Cav has is genuine weight loss. In Qatar I was told his weight was 72kg, and apparently that was really great because he was only 3kgs off the 69kg he gets to by the end of the Tour de France. I'm taller than Cav and if I get to 72kg I give myself a kick up the ars*. If they're saying Cav being 72kg was really good news I'm amazed. I saw him getting changed after the stage 4 debacle where Sky lost any GC hopes for their star asset and I was struck by how un-athletic his body looks - the guy carries way too much flesh that contributes nothing (other than insulation on a very cold day). He is an exceptionally talented finishing sprinter but I can't help but think he could be more if he addressed his body composition.
**Finally to say, I don't like the guy one bit - and I'm far from the only one - but the above is an objective appraisal on a sporting level, and I think the pic below speaks volumes.
Could it be the Ullrich scenario: too much PR-related stuff in the off season? Not the best year to be doing crash diets as the summer deadlines draw nearer.
At the end of the day, IIRC I saw some photos last year of Thor in the WC jersey, looking distinctly chubby and if you're taking big gulps of air into the bottom of your lungs, then a photo at the wrong time is going to make you look fat.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
RichN95 wrote:The real 'curse of the rainbow jersey' is to be called fat by all and sundry. It happens every year. It's just the way the jersey looks.
Yeah, but I know what fat looks like without a jersey on and he definitely tends more towards that description than cut, lean, ripped, etc.-- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --0 -
Is that a skinsuit as well? Did we already discuss this?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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Dave_1 wrote:Thanks for the education on the difference between track and road . Cav is on form and was just unlucky yesterday..I should have known.. :idea:
Well i knew i was stating the obvious but it was damn true. I'm not the Cav fan-boy you're implying that i am.
Simply put - they rode against him, big time. *And those who rode against him had great form.* That just didn't happen in 2009. It happened in 2011, and although many pointed to bad form, he simply wouldn't have got close.
Maybe you were being tongue in cheek with the marginal gains and SRM comment, in which case we'd be on the same wavelength.0 -
Cavendish obviously had a bad day. He is in form and lighter than he was. If he didn't have such an unusual off day he would have done ok. Massive by Degenkolb. Goss led in his group 20 secs down.
Cancellara said it wasn't a hard race and they didn't go particularly intensely but he 'had lactic acid coming out his ears' by going all out from the top of the Poggio.
Greipel - great tuff, led in his group 1.48 down (including Haussler...)
Great riding from the young guys. A lot of young riders packing the top section. Trentin who went down is neo-pro and U23 Ita champion.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Gerrans' dadDid you watch the race?
I had cyclingnews live updates on and I fell asleep after 200k’s, woke up at 4am and went back to look at the results and saw his name at the top of the results and thought that can’t be true so I had to look back again at the final 10 minutes of the race to make sure I was reading it right!
It’s a long way from Mt Buller to the Poggio. Did you expect that your son would be the winner of Milan San Remo last night?
I knew he was in good shape and I knew he was taking it serious. He had been over to that final climb and ridden it a few times, and went and had a look at the finish, so he knew what it was. You’re not going to be doing that unless you’re hoping to be up there at the end.
This summer he was home [in Mansfield] and did a block of training and I’ve never seen him work so hard at this time of year. Normally in January he’s wanting to be in good form in April, so he’s not going that hard in January. But this year the effort and training he did was just unbelievable. I said to him, “I’ve never seen you go this hard in January,” and he said “there’s a lot of pressure on the team and he wants to get some results”.
Do you know if the Ardennes are still a goal for Simon or was Milan San Remo what he was aiming for?
Amstel and Bastogne–Liège is still his aim for the year, there’s no doubt, so this is a bonus.
Did you see what Simon was capable of as a pro cyclist when he was growing up and riding these roads around Jamison and Mansfield?
No, no, not at all. He didn’t start until he was 15 or 16, so he didn’t have much of a career at that point. It’s a good place to ride around here.
Do you ride yourself?
I ride with my local club. I started when he started. He started with a crook knee at the time and he’d go out on the rode and I go with him to keep an eye on him and he eventually started to leave me behind.
Have you spoken to Gerro yet?
Yes, I spoke to him on the phone this morning. He can’t believe what just happened! (laughs)Contador is the Greatest0 -
The race started with a minute of silence in honor of the victims of the coach crash in Switzerland earlier this week.
Contador is the Greatest0 -
I just checked up to 2008 and actually Cav's race was the shortest timewise, or in other words, the fastest.
I haven't checked the race distances in case they varied by some kms.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Can always rely on this site. 74 odd km of MSR12:
http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_mila ... emo%202012Contador is the Greatest0 -
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frenchfighter wrote:I just checked up to 2008 and actually Cav's race was the shortest timewise, or in other words, the fastest.
Cavendish won in 2009, Cancellara in 2008.0 -
This thread is proving what I babble on about. If cavendish loses it generates more interest than him winningFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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Found out what happened to Boonen.
Was in a good position, but a bloke crashed infront of him which split the group that ended up sprinting for 4th in half.
Said he had the best legs he's ever had in M-SR...
Genuinely seemed quite happy despite the circumstances in the finale.0 -
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iainf72 wrote:Is that a skinsuit as well? Did we already discuss this?
Sep Vanmarcke used one in Het Nieuwsblad as did Johan Vansummeren in Roubaix last year. They are more road skinsuits than TT skinsuits. It's all "marginal gains".
http://www.shopslipstreamsports.com/201 ... onfig.html
Castelli make a plain one if you want to improve your sportive times
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/castelli-sanremo-speedsuit/
And I reckon Cavendish looks more like a six day rider with his jersey tucked in his shorts in this photo... 0
