oh no! its the ligget and sherwen show.

BilgeRat

I can't believe how much of this thread has focussed on pronounciation which I agree is pretty trivial a complaint compared to the many other failings of P&P. On a positive note I have been happy with the almost complete absence of references to "a certain LA" this year so I am quite grateful for that.

Having said that they are really bloody hopeless. Maybe their foibles were a bit 'cute' like a couple of old codgers declining into senility for a few years but I'm afraid it's worn very thin. There is no excuse for the constant misidentification, even Mrs Rat who only watches one race all year is correcting P&P after about a week.

More annoying is the constant bolloxing up of what is actually happening in the race for example Liggett, when people are descending and back off a bit, keeps claiming the guy in front is attacking. There is very little in depth analysis and they don't seem to have much insight into the teams or riders anymore. When they do try some analysis they often muck it up.

Personally, I think they are lazy. They rest on their laurels and just warble on. I can remember looking forward to listening to Liggets commentary in the distant past but I can't really remember why anymore. Now I listen to other commentators (eg Matt Rendell) and think why can't we have that bloke all the time.

rick_chasey

BilgeRat wrote:

Personally, I think they are lazy. They rest on their laurels and just warble on. I can remember looking forward to listening to Liggets commentary in the distant past but I can't really remember why anymore. Now I listen to other commentators (eg Matt Rendell) and think why can't we have that bloke all the time.

Because Matt Rendell's voice, (he can't help it I appreciate) sound like he's JUST necked a load of moonshine and his throat is still recovering.

No exaggeration, my girlfriend told me off for commentating to her for about an hour when we were watching the Tour, because I kept feeling that ITV4 were not giving the information that was required.

Aggieboy

TBH sitting at home watching in HD on a large screen tv means we get better view than they do.

thegibdog

BilgeRat wrote:

On a positive note I have been happy with the almost complete absence of references to "a certain LA" this year so I am quite grateful for that.

You must have missed Luis Leon Sanchez being called Lance.

Yellow Peril

I enjoy there commentary, with or without the mistakes. Sherwen has ridden the Tour so he has my respect. I really love the way they casually start talking about the Chateau/Church/Bridge the helicopter is passing over as though they know all this stuff anyway!

It is noticeable though over the last couple of days how Paul has stopped his "crashes always happen at the back of the field" mantra as the Peleton have sought to redress that fact.

almightyt123

This was Phil's classic mistake - Armstrong's win in stage 17 of the 2004 TDF: 'Klöden's just won the race here...it's a race for second place now!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul1eopugfpg

In a way, it was admirable because it made Armstrong's win more impressive (in Phil's own words it was 'unbelievable'), but it's also pretty comical.

cogidubnus

Lovely quote in that clip from phil:

"...and we are all wondering what is inside LA as Kloden was well clear"

Spanish beef most probably

luckao

"Johnny Hoogerland's been a pro since 2003, and I don't think I've seen him in a bike race before" - Ligget.

The man's been in a Vuelta and a Giro. It isn't like he was inconspicuous at either of them.

Turfle

Just watched the replay, an I'm sure I must have misheard, but when Hivert went off today I could have sworn Ligget called him Olano.

luckao

You're right in that he definitely got the name wrong. That's the moment that reminded me of his ridiculous comment about Hoogerland. He'd give Motson a run for his money.

nolance

Paul Sherwen called Boassen Hagen "the crown in Sky's jewel" and both of them have started calling Martin Tjallingi something akin to "Jangly".Do they know something we don't?

andyrac

nolance wrote:

Paul Sherwen called Boassen Hagen "the crown in Sky's jewel" and both of them have started calling Martin Tjallingi something akin to "Jangly".Do they know something we don't?

I thought they were two different riders.....

Snorebens

BilgeRat wrote:

I can't believe how much of this thread has focussed on pronounciation which I agree is pretty trivial a complaint compared to the many other failings of P&P. On a positive note I have been happy with the almost complete absence of references to "a certain LA" this year so I am quite grateful for that.

Having said that they are really bloody hopeless. Maybe their foibles were a bit 'cute' like a couple of old codgers declining into senility for a few years but I'm afraid it's worn very thin. There is no excuse for the constant misidentification, even Mrs Rat who only watches one race all year is correcting P&P after about a week.

More annoying is the constant bolloxing up of what is actually happening in the race for example Liggett, when people are descending and back off a bit, keeps claiming the guy in front is attacking. There is very little in depth analysis and they don't seem to have much insight into the teams or riders anymore. When they do try some analysis they often muck it up.

Personally, I think they are lazy. They rest on their laurels and just warble on. I can remember looking forward to listening to Liggets commentary in the distant past but I can't really remember why anymore. Now I listen to other commentators (eg Matt Rendell) and think why can't we have that bloke all the time.

+1. I think its gone from a bad joke, to rank amatuerish to enraging this year. Was away for the weekend so don't know if it was discussed elsewhere but on Saturday Phil came out with the classic 'Big Fabian, sporting the colours of Belgium champion' to the almost offensive - pronouncing on several occasions Xavier Zandio's name as Xavier Tondo...

I also don't understand why the can't see things that is clear to the viewer - confusing groups on the road, riders in the break, missing big moves etc. Just a sad indictment of 'old boys' in the sports commentary business I suppose - ala Messrs Keys and Gray.

RichN95.

nolance wrote:

Paul Sherwen called Boassen Hagen "the crown in Sky's jewel" and both of them have started calling Martin Tjallingi something akin to "Jangly".Do they know something we don't?

They're the exact two things that I noticed today.

Personally, while I'm an ES person at home, I've had P+P on a work and while they may make mistakes, I can't fault their enthusiasm. They can make almost anything sound exciting.

Pseudonym

nolance wrote:

Paul Sherwen called Boassen Hagen "the crown in Sky's jewel" and both of them have started calling Martin Tjallingi something akin to "Jangly".Do they know something we don't?

He still calls Voeckler "voyckler" and is now calling Boasson Hagen "Boyson Hagen" - as well as adding a 'y' onto everyone's first name, like 'Tommy' Voeckler, 'Sammy' Sanchez, 'Tommy' Danielson - I'm sure I also heard him say 'Eddie' Boasson Hagen....

RichN95.

Pseudonym wrote:

He still calls Voeckler "voyckler" and is now calling Boasson Hagen "Boyson Hagen" - as well as adding a 'y' onto everyone's first name, like 'Tommy' Voeckler, 'Sammy' Sanchez, 'Tommy' Danielson - I'm sure I also heard him say 'Eddie' Boasson Hagen....

The Sky team call Edvald 'Eddy', on ITV today David Millar called Sanchez Sammy. Voeckler is commonly referred to as Tommy by the English language press, rightly or wrongly. Danielson, I believe, is generally known as Tommy.

geoff_ss

I go to a lot of model aeroplane shows and the complaints here are an echo of the complaints on the model plane forums about the commentators there.

I think you're all being very over critical of people doing a difficult job. The commentators aren't there primarily for people here who follow cycle racing avidly. They're for people like me who've never followed any sport except ones they're actively involved in but like occasionally to see how the real stars do it. I wonder how many of their critics could do half as good a job? Lets face it, most of the Tour de France is pretty boring to watch but the exciting bits are worth the wait as is the scenery.

I suspect I'd get irritated about a commentary on a sailing race but perhaps some of you here might welcome explanations on tactical use of the rules and the need to get wind shifts right. I think a little more generosity of spirit might go a long way.

DF33

The commentators aren't there primarily for people here who follow cycle racing avidly. They're for people like me who've never followed any sport except ones they're actively involved in but like occasionally to see how the real stars do it

So the TDF, premier bike race in the world, with Brits in top contentions, World class event, world class Brit athletes in top spots and we're supposed to be happy just to have anyone at all commentating!

If it was football,,,,,,,,

geoff_ss

DF33 wrote:

The commentators aren't there primarily for people here who follow cycle racing avidly. They're for people like me who've never followed any sport except ones they're actively involved in but like occasionally to see how the real stars do it

So the TDF, premier bike race in the world, with Brits in top contentions, World class event, world class Brit athletes in top spots and we're supposed to be happy just to have anyone at all commentating!

If it was football,,,,,,,,

Unfortunately it isn't football and therefore for most people it isn't a sport worth bothering about. I have zero interest in football myself.

In fact none of the sports I've actually competed in on a regular basis get even a mention in the non-specialist press. Cycling's just something I do rather than watch - just like when I competed in motor cycle trials (at which we had world beaters) and dinghy racing (at which we also had world beaters); They were things I did rather than watched.

I just think the petty complaints about Phil and Paul (who has actually ridden in the Tour, have you?) are just that - mean spirited and petty. Not everyone is a cycling anorak.

Pross

I noticed Stage 16 gave them the opportunity to resurrect the whole LA cutting across country episode again, not that they need and excuse and seem able to raise it whenever there is a technical descent. The wife was watching and suggested he should have been done for cheating, I pointed out that it may have been a minor offence compared to some he is alleged to have committed

luckao

Geoff_SS wrote:

I think you're all being very over critical of people doing a difficult job. The commentators aren't there primarily for people here who follow cycle racing avidly.

I stand by my criticism. You really can't pay much attention beyond the Tour if you're not noticing riders like Hoogerland, and that's quite surprising for somebody with the responsibility of overseeing cycling's biggest race. I'm not saying it's definitive proof that he neglects any race that doesn't fall in July, but he might want to pay a bit more attention. Not doing so doesn't mean he's failing to tell avid cycling fans what they already know. It means he can't tell the non-avid followers what they don't know.

Snorebens

Luckao wrote:

Geoff_SS wrote:

I think you're all being very over critical of people doing a difficult job. The commentators aren't there primarily for people here who follow cycle racing avidly.

I stand by my criticism. You really can't pay much attention beyond the Tour if you're not noticing riders like Hoogerland, and that's quite surprising for somebody with the responsibility of overseeing cycling's biggest race. I'm not saying it's definitive proof that he neglects any race that doesn't fall in July, but he might want to pay a bit more attention. Not doing so doesn't mean he's failing to tell avid cycling fans what they already know. It means he can't tell the non-avid followers what they don't know.

+1. If they are there to educate and inform (and as ex-pro cyclists I'm rather more thinking they are supposed to be the 'elite' if you will, as oppose to, say, a David Harmon) their lack of knowledge and wilful ignorance of some teams and cyclists is telling. On the stage to Plateau d'Beille the front group still had Uran, Rolland, Vanendent yet they continued to ramble on about Bertie and the Schlecks with an added dose of Armstrong musings for good measure. If I'm new to the race, tell me about these other guys, the tactics, the teams...

Rant over - I just find them really poor and, with the amount of mistakes and constant throwbacks to 1999 - 2005, well past their sell by date.

jswba

I loved Paul's 'crown in the jewel' spoonerism yesterday.

jimmythecuckoo

Did he say it "this afternoon" in "this bike race" whilst the "heads of state" were on screen?

thecrofter

How many bloody times do they have to tell us Wiggins crashed out on Stage 7 and speculate as to where he would have finished. HE'S OUT now get over it.

tarquin_foxglove

nolance wrote:

Paul Sherwen called Boassen Hagen "the crown in Sky's jewel" and both of them have started calling Martin Tjallingi something akin to "Jangly".Do they know something we don't?

Got to love them suffering from the 'commentators curse' when they bigged up "Tommy Voeckler's" descending only for him to put it in the trees and just enough time for them to move on to "Sammy Sanchez's" expert descending just as he ran wide & almost into a barrier.

Happiness1982

I don't see what all the moaning is about. At least they have some passion. Try watching Formula 1 coverage with that childrens tv reject presenting it, then you'll have perspective ha

dolan_driver

jswba wrote:

I loved Paul's 'crown in the jewel' spoonerism yesterday.

Damn. You beat me to it on that one.

I'm sure Paul Sherwin is a nice guy and was a good pro, but he's a brutal commentator. Yea, he is passionate about cycling but he makes you cringe, listening to him.

Dolan Driver.

luckao

Happiness1982 wrote:

I don't see what all the moaning is about. At least they have some passion. Try watching Formula 1 coverage with that childrens tv reject presenting it, then you'll have perspective ha

Ah, come on. That's the kind of spiel you give to somebody who isn't very good at what they do. "He's not very good, but he tries!" It's not like the job's so tedious that expecting them to do a bit of homework is unreasonable.

Happiness1982

Luckao wrote:

Happiness1982 wrote:

I don't see what all the moaning is about. At least they have some passion. Try watching Formula 1 coverage with that childrens tv reject presenting it, then you'll have perspective ha

Ah, come on. That's the kind of spiel you give to somebody who isn't very good at what they do. "He's not very good, but he tries!" It's not like the job's so tedious that expecting them to do a bit of homework is unreasonable.

No, I agree, and perhaps my opinion is skewed because I never watch a whole stage these days but, for me, cycling commentary is somewhat limited in terms of value; if there's an attack/break etc then even if they get the names wrong they'll be shown on the screen, as will other important info (time gaps etc). Becuase of that, I find them less irritating than if we were watching, say, the olympics.