Laws of race physics....

ga02clr

I for one would not want to discourage anyone from racing and that is in no way the point of this thread.

I would like to say however that a mass pile up in the last few km because someone has tried to dive bomb the last corner or been sprinting dangerously with their head down hurts both people and kit just as much in Cat 4 as it would do in Cat1.

I started racing at the age of 9 until I was 18 and after a good few years off have come back. The standard of riding has dropped but the number of people racing has increased and I for one think that lots of new people racing is a good thing.

The difference is that the club scene used to be stronger with old hands explaining to the youngsters and newer riders racing etiquette and safety.

I think everyone accepts that in Cat 4 races things will go wrong as there are people racing who may never have actually ridden in a large group.

I personally think therein lies the problem as was highlighted by a certain Bradley Wiggins. The club scene isn’t what it once was and a lot of riders ride independently of clubs. While there is no issue with this for general riding I do think it can have a negative effect on the racing scene. I would advise everyone to find a friendly club that suits their needs and learn as much as you can form the old timers. This would make everything safer for everyone. We all want good fast safe racing.

mattshrops

isnt it nice when we all agree at the end? aah

ozzzyosborn206

as i live in guernsey it costs quite alot to get to a race where i can gain ranking points and so in races i have done i have raced right until the end, however most of the races i have done have been southern regionals, a national b the other week and the 2,3,4 dorset tour in 09 where i think i was 4th or 5th in the prologue tt and so wanted to finish off with a decent results, i got a 3rd on the 2nd road race. I am doing a 2.3.4 crit on saturday and a 3,4 race on sunday so will see how it goes coming to the finish, i raced in belgium kermesses last year and there you get prize money down to 30th place sometimes even further so everyone still sprints for their minor positions and i never saw any crashes in the last few k, maybe its down to the riders racing? one rule doesn't apply for all i guess

Chip \'oyler

Just a small point but Cat1, Cat 4 etc is an Americanism.

The proper description as used in the UK for donkeys years is 1st Cat, 4th Cat etc

angry_bird

I'd considered starting to race on the road bike but to be honest when you see threads like this you really think "why fucking bother" I'd rather stick to the mountain bike and just go out on the road with my mates when we aren't feeling like mountain biking. Just doesn't seem like a friendly atmosphere.

ozzzyosborn206

Angry Bird wrote:

I'd considered starting to race on the road bike but to be honest when you see threads like this you really think "why ******* bother" I'd rather stick to the mountain bike and just go out on the road with my mates when we aren't feeling like mountain biking. Just doesn't seem like a friendly atmosphere.

it is a friendly atmosphere,of course you will get your jerks just as there are in all walks of life, if you don't give it a try you will never know

Richj

As long as safey of yourself and those around is at the forefront of your mind I see no issue in sprinting for any position. The problem can be when the red mist of competition descends people do silly things.

Off topic but, in a race I did last year some how a horse and rider got on the course between a break and the bunch, I was on the front of the bunch and saw the horse so held up my hand and shouted for everyone to slow down, to my amazement riders sprinted past me and carried on racing. The horse went crazy and was charging down the road with a little girl clung on for dear life, most of us stopped behind the horse and rider until she could control it. But the actions of a lot of riders disgusted me. The race neutralised in the end and we were all brought back together anyway. When the race was over there were a lot of angry words and many of the riders who sprinted past the horse were apologetic. Racing can make people do crazy things.

MaxwellBygraves

Angry Bird wrote:

I'd considered starting to race on the road bike but to be honest when you see threads like this you really think "why ******* bother" I'd rather stick to the mountain bike and just go out on the road with my mates when we aren't feeling like mountain biking. Just doesn't seem like a friendly atmosphere.

How is it an unfriendly atmosphere?
Simply put, people don't want to crash. All people are asking is that you ride responsibly and with consideration to others.
The sound of carbon against tarmac is not a pleasant sound.

Chrissylaa

gsk82 wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Exactly - any half-decent rider won't contest the sprint the second they realise they have no chance of getting a top 5. Because WGAF who came 6th in the sprint?

If the answer to that is "you", then you need a long hard look in the mirror

P_Tucker wrote:

Sprinting for 12th in the bunch is utterly pointless

If i needed 1 point to win the Elite circuit series outright then i would be sprinting for 19th place.

Chrissylaa

dawebbo wrote:

There are often cash prizes though for highest 3rd etc

This is an excellent post as i've seen cash prizes of 50 quid for best 3rd or 4th cat.

Buys a nice couple of beers on the way back from the race.

ga02clr

I might be confused but this thread seems to have moved away from safe racing to who is anyone should be allowed to sprint.
My points have always been based on just be sensible when racing. Do not try and for gaps into corners that just are not there, not brake needlessly in corners, consider those around you etc.
Everyone should feel free to sprint for the line. It’s a race. BUT everyone needs to remember the safety of themselves and those around them. That is where the frustration occurs for many people, when people take risks with safety and this is seemingly magnified if the risky move is for 25th place.
For those that are new to racing (which we have all been at one point obviously) get as much group riding experience as you can prior to racing and take advice from more experienced racers and riders from within your club.

GiantMike

I remember my first proper race (TLI) when the handicapped groups came together and there were about 80 riders of various capabilities in a big group. I was crapping myself, mainly because I was so concerned about my safety, so I buggered off to near the front. Unfortunately I did it a bit fast and started a reaction in the group because they thought I was trying to get away (it was the last lap by now). Eventually it all settled down and I was well-placed near the front, but not on the front. At 100m to the last corner (90 degrees) I pushed off the front because I expected there to be a 'nutter pile-up' on the corner and I dug in for the uphill sprint for the line. The fitter, lighter riders streamed past me, but I got a relatively-respectable 25th which I was ecstatic with.

To all those thinking of having a go, DO! It's great fun if you ignore the occasional suffering. Just remember to be safe.

While I'll never amount to anything in the real world, I'm Contador or Schleck in my head when I'm racing and I'll sprint when I like, thank you, even if it's just not to be last.

John.T

Some riders are a bit mad. In a TLI handicapper at Croft a few years ago some clown tried to straight line the chicane when we were about 10 wide. It was mayhem and he did not even know whaat he had done wrong. :shock:

mattshrops

mike you are indeed a giant- i love you man

rls

+1 for riding safely. I'm about to return to road racing for the first time in 16 years and I would be extremely annoyed if someone riding dangerously caused harm to me and my bike. Saying that, +1 for sprinting, wherever you are in the pack as long as it's safe, it is a race after all and nobody should give up until they cross the finish line.

Richard

stevec205gti

A couple of questions....

How does someone learn the art of sprinting against others unless they get a chance to practice it? Whilst a rider may not be in a chance of winning one particular race and are languishing back in the 2nd/3rd group, they still are there to earn the art of sprinting so if they find themselves in a race winning position they need to know how to do it.

How is an unexperienced rider supposed to know what's safe/doable or not? It's my expereince in life that you only really learn by screwing up - you push to find a limit, have the misfortune of going beyond that limit and knowing better for next time...

This thread is about Cat 3 and Cat 4 standard riders - whether you like it or not most of them are there to learn the art of racing, not because they know it all already.

Down the Road

Training is for practising NOT races when you are closer to the back than the front.

If you are not in the top 10 or 12 places PLEASE do not sprint or be stupid. You race to win not to place.

Thick Tester

stevec205gti wrote:

A couple of questions....

How does someone learn the art of sprinting against others unless they get a chance to practice it? Whilst a rider may not be in a chance of winning one particular race and are languishing back in the 2nd/3rd group, they still are there to earn the art of sprinting so if they find themselves in a race winning position they need to know how to do it.

How is an unexperienced rider supposed to know what's safe/doable or not? It's my expereince in life that you only really learn by screwing up - you push to find a limit, have the misfortune of going beyond that limit and knowing better for next time...

This thread is about Cat 3 and Cat 4 standard riders - whether you like it or not most of them are there to learn the art of racing, not because they know it all already.

Town and village signs are the required targets when amongst training pals and especially on the chainy.

morstar

Down the Road wrote:

You race to win not to place.

YOU may do, but that argument applies to Elite sport (end even then inconsistently).
For those who cycle race as a hobby, placings may be very important.

emx

Down the Road wrote:

If you are not in the top 10 or 12 places PLEASE do not sprint or be stupid. You race to win not to place.

couple of things wrong with this....

Firstly, it is possible to sprint and not be 'stupid'. Secondly, in club level sport you race to win AND to place.

A break of eight riders might have taken the first 8 places, but there still might be two or more places (and licence points) on offer.

Or maybe we should just draw straws for those...??

GiantMike

Down the Road wrote:

If you are not in the top 10 or 12 places PLEASE do not sprint or be stupid. You race to win not to place.

I'm unlikely to finish in the top 10 or 12. Perhaps I should stop racing? I mean, I must just be getting in everybody else's way.

If I pay to race, I'll race and sprint if I want to. If I'm not welcome, I'll take my money (which obviously makes up the prze money) elsewhere.

Lighten up.

Down the Road

Your are obviously not racing just paying £15 for a training ride.

Get in the break and start trying

emx

Down the Road wrote:

Your are obviously not racing just paying £15 for a training ride.

Get in the break and start trying

So, like I said a few pages ago - if you miss the break (and in an 80-rider field, it's fair to say that the majority will), should the rest just climb off..??

ju5t1n

chase the break!

Down the Road

You haven't missed the break you've ALL been dropped from the race. No-one remembers who came 4th or 5th in ANY race

Anonymous

Down the Road wrote:

You haven't missed the break you've ALL been dropped from the race. No-one remembers who came 4th or 5th in ANY race

Brad Wiggins

4th, Tour de France 2009.

Tom Boonen

4th, 2011 Tour of Flanders (and he sprinted.) In fact Tyler Farrar Sprinted too IIRC despite him being in about 15th.

Down the Road

Who was 4th at Flanders in 2003 - No looking it up now.

Only his mum cares as will wiggin's mum in 5 year's time

Slimbods

I'm only in my second year of racing, and I've a lot to learn. One of the hardest things to learn is the final gallop, as it's not something that happens very often. If I'm finishing in a bunch, I'll gallop to the line and so do many others, so I get bunch sprint practice experience.

jibberjim

Slimbods wrote:

I'm only in my second year of racing, and I've a lot to learn. One of the hardest things to learn is the final gallop, as it's not something that happens very often. If I'm finishing in a bunch, I'll gallop to the line and so do many others, so I get bunch sprint practice experience.

I think one of the points is that it's bad experience, because sprinting when there are 40people in front of you, is very different from sprinting when there's no-one in front of you, so you're not learning the skills that are useful.

When you're sprinting at the front - choosing when to go into the wind matters, when there's 40 guys in front of you that never happens as you just go from one wheel to another with loads of people in front - all your doing is riding as hard as you possibly can and trying to dodge bodies.

That's not training how to win a sprint.

Chip \'oyler

Down the Road wrote:

You haven't missed the break you've ALL been dropped from the race. No-one remembers who came 4th or 5th in ANY race

Must be great being you