Laws of race physics....

Thick Tester

It pains me to have to start a thread on this subject, but after a solid month of racing i think it only appropriate to point some things out that may be of value to the huge influx of novice racers. - Please feel free to add to this.

1) When up front - go through, and move off... do not under any circumstance follow the man infront meaning that he cannot move off the front. All you succeed in doing is making a tit out of yourself and slowing the rest of the bunch down through your work shy antics - you have a nose and that should not be scared of the going in the wind. You go quicker if you work together simple!

2) None of this floppy hands over the bars stuff - grip the bars or the hoods nothing else will do - take responsibility for those behind you.

3) Positioning - get low, get smaller go faster and corner like a demon... - the number of folk i have seen riding in really upright positions scares me. Is it any wonder that some folk cannot corner when their bars and shifters are pointing to the moon?

4) Skewers - Point them in towards the frame / forks to avoid contact with other bikes if things get undesirably close.

5) Getting out of the saddle - really gets my goat this - you can accelerate just as quickly from within the seat as you can out of it. If you are getting out of the saddle just stand on the pedals naturally - do not throw the bike backwards.

6) Switching - dont - period. singles you out as a bad unsafe tit.

MikeWW

1) Go through or follow its up to you. There is no rule that says you need to lead so don't pay any attention to any arrogant tw*ts that try and boss you
2) Stand up if you want its a free country. If you are following be prepared for the rider in front standing up
3) be very wary of people posting advice for 4th cats when it would appear that they are in the same race despite apparent experience

P_Tucker

MikeWW wrote:

1) Go through or follow its up to you. There is no rule that says you need to lead so don't pay any attention to any arrogant tw*ts that try and boss you
2) Stand up if you want its a free country. If you are following be prepared for the rider in front standing up
3) be very wary of people posting advice for 4th cats when it would appear that they are in the same race despite apparent experience

I've seen 4th cats successfully organise some decent through and off even though, crucially, there's no-one up the road. Bet that was a fun race.

Here's a better tip; don't put your nose in the wind for one second without a decent reason. Finding yourself near the front of the bunch is not such a reason.

jibberjim

P_Tucker wrote:

I've seen 4th cats successfully organise some decent through and off even though, crucially, there's no-one up the road. Bet that was a fun race.

Yeah, but there was probably some tubby sprinter who'd been dropped that they had to stop getting back on...

Zachariah

What is meant by 'switching'?

Will.C

Oh my god, I've seen a few of this guys posts, he's either a very good troll or a complete pillark, every post seems to be some sort of know it all I am the best, you lot suck, i'm a real racer....daf*ck...get real. See he's excellent contribution in the sufferfest thread in training. 8)

Great tips though :roll:

Tom BB

Thick Tester wrote:

It pains me to have to start a thread on this subject,.

Dont then! C0ck

joeyhalloran

Hold up, I feel his point is valid. Many people don't know how to ride well in a big bunch of 60 people and it can take time and guidance. Many people read this forum a lot and many guys new to RRing will come here for advice. Maybe the message could have been put across a little friendlier, but some of the points still stand and the faster someone learns to ride in a bunch the better as far as I am concerned.

Anonymous

As long as people are safe they can do what they bloody want!

Funnily enough there was a rider in the race yesterday who was downright dangerous several times and on one occasion frankly ridiculous, he happened to turn up with a group of the OP's clubmates...
Furthermore, the several riders from that club were rarely, if ever, doing any work.
So, Thick Tester, maybe have a word within your own club first...

freehub

What club is this you on about napD?

I don't think people can have a go at someone for not doing hardly any work, as that's what most people do at Saltayre from what I've seen, besides, you don't win from doing lots of work.

As for the OP he's just being proper fussy. some people can accelerate faster out of the saddle...... you don't see the pros sitting down on a sprint finish.

JoeyHalloran wrote:

Hold up, I feel his point is valid. Many people don't know how to ride well in a big bunch of 60 people and it can take time and guidance. Many people read this forum a lot and many guys new to RRing will come here for advice. Maybe the message could have been put across a little friendlier, but some of the points still stand and the faster someone learns to ride in a bunch the better as far as I am concerned.

Yeah it takes time and guidance, I want guidance off a decent person.

ju5t1n

Thick Tester wrote:

It pains me to have to start a thread on this subject, but after a solid month of racing i think it only appropriate to point some things out that may be of value to the huge influx of novice racers. - Please feel free to add to this.

1) When up front - go through, and move off... do not under any circumstance follow the man infront meaning that he cannot move off the front. All you succeed in doing is making a tit out of yourself and slowing the rest of the bunch down through your work shy antics - you have a nose and that should not be scared of the going in the wind. You go quicker if you work together simple!

2) None of this floppy hands over the bars stuff - grip the bars or the hoods nothing else will do - take responsibility for those behind you.

3) Positioning - get low, get smaller go faster and corner like a demon... - the number of folk i have seen riding in really upright positions scares me. Is it any wonder that some folk cannot corner when their bars and shifters are pointing to the moon?

4) Skewers - Point them in towards the frame / forks to avoid contact with other bikes if things get undesirably close.

5) Getting out of the saddle - really gets my goat this - you can accelerate just as quickly from within the seat as you can out of it. If you are getting out of the saddle just stand on the pedals naturally - do not throw the bike backwards.

6) Switching - dont - period. singles you out as a bad unsafe tit.

It's not just novices – these things happen in all cycle races. I watched Gent Wevelgem on the telly today and spotted examples of all of the stuff you describe above. There were at least half a dozen crashes too. If the pros can't get it right then what chance do us amateurs have?

Pokerface

Can someone please explain to me how it is possible to accelerate just as quickly from a sitting position vs getting out of the saddle? :shock:

Tom BB

Its simple really: Thick Tester said so! :shock:

Down the Road

To not pick fits this week I am just referring to "The Rules"

http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/

For this argument

Rules 5, 67 and 70 apply

Tom Butcher

Nowt wrong with a a bit of debate about what is and what isn't the done thing. Some of the points are arguable in which case we should argue them not just jump on thicktester for bringing it up.

forward_loop

Pokerface wrote:

Can someone please explain to me how it is possible to accelerate just as quickly from a sitting position vs getting out of the saddle? :shock:

i haven't worked out how to do this either, but I suspect the OP meant those sitting in the group that sporadically and on a regular basis stand up at any change/increase in the group tempo in a slightly erratic manner without acknowlegement of their actions on the goup dynamics. Realistically they are often able (should be able)to close those small and fluid gaps withouth standing. Funnily enough I ride with a guy that does this all the time (I avoid being behind him)

Again - what is switching ?

Down the Road

Anticipating means you don't have to stand. Read the race and you will have it under control.

You produce more power for longer sitting. Therefore only stand when you have stuffed up

PaulThomo

Forward loop wrote:

Again - what is switching ?

Switching is moving off your line - like switching lanes on a motorway - you don't do it without looking to see if it is safe to do so, so don't do it in a bunch. If you do it and someone is alongside you, even partially (they may be coming around you) then you could cause them (and possibly you too) to crash and probably a number of others behind too.
It's the main reason for crashes in any race.

Paul

freehub

Down the Road wrote:

To not pick fits this week I am just referring to "The Rules"

http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/

For this argument

Rules 5, 67 and 70 apply

Who wrote that silly list?

ga02clr

I think the guy writing this may be one of these 4's racers that appears to be physically quite fit but has absolutely no racing nous what so ever.

I spoke to a guy after an early season race who would come through and do big turns on the front pushing hard. If there had been someone off the front or he had team mates to work with etc to drop people I can clearly see the point.... he didn’t. Massive turns and then finished about 20th.

I asked him why he did it and his response was he liked to see the pain on people’s faces. Big fish small pond. I prefer to win, move up and test myself which is what I have done.

Incidentally something that does annoy me immensely but is understandable in lower level races is people breaking when entering corners that are actually very smooth. I am yet to find a flat corner with the exception of maybe the bottom turn at the Smithfield nocturne that you really need to break on with south east crits. (I am yet to do crystal palace). People insist on breaking at the front of the group that then causes an often dangerous ripple effect.
My other bug bear is people’s insistence on dive bombing the inside line of corners to move up the group mid race. While I understand but do not condone this when things hot up with a lap to go etc mid race it’s just stupid. Esp when they often move backwards in the straight.

Race hard but race safe!

Chip \'oyler

freehub wrote:

Down the Road wrote:

To not pick fits this week I am just referring to "The Rules"

http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/

For this argument

Rules 5, 67 and 70 apply

Who wrote that silly list?

Silly? That is THE list and should be adhered to at ALL times.

Down the Road

ga02clr wrote:

I think the guy writing this may be one of these 4's racers that appears to be physically quite fit but has absolutely no racing nous what so ever.

I spoke to a guy after an early season race who would come through and do big turns on the front pushing hard. If there had been someone off the front or he had team mates to work with etc to drop people I can clearly see the point.... he didn’t. Massive turns and then finished about 20th.

I asked him why he did it and his response was he liked to see the pain on people’s faces. Big fish small pond. I prefer to win, move up and test myself which is what I have done.

Incidentally something that does annoy me immensely but is understandable in lower level races is people breaking when entering corners that are actually very smooth. I am yet to find a flat corner with the exception of maybe the bottom turn at the Smithfield nocturne that you really need to break on with south east crits. (I am yet to do crystal palace). People insist on breaking at the front of the group that then causes an often dangerous ripple effect.
My other bug bear is people’s insistence on dive bombing the inside line of corners to move up the group mid race. While I understand but do not condone this when things hot up with a lap to go etc mid race it’s just stupid. Esp when they often move backwards in the straight.

Race hard but race safe!

Why are people destroying their bikes in a race????

Oh! You mean BRAKING

Thick Tester

ga02clr wrote:

I think the guy writing this may be one of these 4's racers that appears to be physically quite fit but has absolutely no racing nous what so ever.

Erm no quite the opposite actually - its easier to get your legs back than nouse though!

ga02clr

Deleted

Tom Butcher

ga02clr wrote:

I asked him why he did it and his response was he liked to see the pain on people’s faces.

The old bunch engines

Down the Road

BRAKES BRAKES BRAKES !!!!!

It's 7 year old's spelling. Did you not go to school?

Thick Tester

Tom Butcher wrote:

ga02clr wrote:

I asked him why he did it and his response was he liked to see the pain on people’s faces.

The old bunch engines

Or herberts

kieranb

see also oldish thread:

safety tips for newbies

freehub

Chip \'oyler wrote:

freehub wrote:

Down the Road wrote:

To not pick fits this week I am just referring to "The Rules"

http://www.velominati.com/blog/the-rules/

For this argument

Rules 5, 67 and 70 apply

Who wrote that silly list?

Silly? That is THE list and should be adhered to at ALL times.

I'm hoping I'm failing to spot a joke and that you're actually joking.

Tom BB

Yes Will-its just a daft list thats abit of fun ffs! :roll:

Not everything, either in life or on the interweb is to be taken literally Just humour innit!

inseine

Mr Testers posts often seem a little agressive and, dare I say it, trollish, but wanting safer racing is a good thing.
It does anoy me when people dive for a gap in a corner only to drift back straight afterwards. I always try to leave a bit of space even if I've got the inside line. Seen too many accidents. It would also be nice if people just had a bit of spacial awareness especially for riders behind them. Non of this do this as a career but I've seen careers nearly ended in a bike race.