Best all-round mountain biker - Thinking out loud

njee20

I think a proportion of the winners time would be better, otherwise it's not really a comparison between disciplines, but against other competitors.

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

Why? You're judging Steve Peats performance on a DH bike and assume it would transfer to XC, whilst excelling at his own discipline on an unfamiliar bike. He never has to race uphill, so no one knows how good he is, but like I say, i've heard he's no hill climb champ (why would he be!).

Nino Schurter and Julien Absalon are both strong descenders, it's a bit daft to say they're not, particularly as you have no clue and are just absurdly prejudiced against xc racers, as you've proven before with your claims of being better!

But YOU are absurdly prejudiced against DH riders!

It's just our opinion that Peaty would come top in an all-rounder series, with equal bias on each event. Because we all know he's great at DH, and some of us remember he's actually pretty good at trials too. That's two of three bases covered very well.
I don't know enough about any XC rider to say they would not be the best overall. Hell, the only one I can name is Olly Beckinsale and even then I'm not sure how to spell it, or if he's even competing any more.

But as far as the riders that I watch are concerned, Peaty strikes me as a good all rounder.
And Gee has an alarming level of fitness - he's not just some bloke who freewheels down singletrack you know :roll:

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

I think a proportion of the winners time would be better, otherwise it's not really a comparison between disciplines, but against other competitors.

Why? There's no logic in your sentiment. Over a 2-3 hour race, there WILL be a greater spread of times than over a 3 minute race. Your method puts much greater bias towards the endurance events.

Shaggy_Dog

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

Dual Slalom/4X/Trials would be a little harder to award points to, any ideas?

Yes. Just give 1 point for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place etc etc etc, right through until the last entrant in the series.
Then whoever has the fewest points at the end wins.

Makes it easier to accommodate for differing numbers of riders each year. And is simple to follow.
A DNF, or a failure to turn up would get the highest points + 50 (to discourage people skipping events they're not keen on).

Hmmm, could work, what about when events clash? You can't turn up to everything. What if you capped the portion of points from any one discipline to 50% of your final result and a minimum of 10% from all the others. Someone could then get 50% points from DH, 30% from 4X, 10% from Trials and another 10% from XC.

Besides, who wants to lose points? It's not a diet!

Anonymous

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

Hmmm, could work, what about when events clash? You can't turn up to everything. What if you capped the portion of points from any one discipline to 50% of your final result and a minimum of 10% from all the others. Someone could then get 50% points from DH, 30% from 4X, 10% from Trials and another 10% from XC.

Besides, who wants to lose points? It's not a diet!

Events clash? Who would organise a race series where events clash?
The proportion stuff is just too complicated. Make it a straightforward fight. It's far easier for the spectators to see what's going on then.

Also, is dirt jumping/slopestyle included? Or are they ignored because they're judged events?

njee20

But YOU are absurdly prejudiced against DH riders!

No I'm not, Peaty is an excellent rider, it would be silly to say not. You comment on riders you have never even heard of (by your own admission!), how can you say you're better than people you've never heard of? All I've said is that he's not a great climber, as I've heard from people who've ridden with him! Read before you type.

I reckon a 4x rider would be better than a pure DH rider anyway, I suspect Gee would beat Peaty.

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

But YOU are absurdly prejudiced against DH riders!

No I'm not, Peaty is an excellent rider, it would be silly to say not. You comment on riders you have never even heard of (by your own admission!), how can you say you're better than people you've never heard of? All I've said is that he's not a great climber, as I've heard from people who've ridden with him! Read before you type.

I reckon a 4x rider would be better than a pure DH rider anyway, I suspect Gee would beat Peaty.

I also reckon Gee would beat peaty if it was just Dh and XC. Hell, I'd even put money on Gee beating Peaty if it was just DH. But, I don't know what his trials skills are like, I've never heard of him doing anything like that, so...

Are you still going to argue that people I see walking rough sections on telly and in videos WILL be technically better than me, based purely on the fact that I don't know who they are?
And yet, you don't know who I am, and instantly make assumptions about my technical competence on a mountain bike?
You really are quite quite mad, aren't you?

supersonic

njee20 wrote:

Why? You're judging Steve Peats performance on a DH bike and assume it would transfer to XC, whilst excelling at his own discipline on an unfamiliar bike. He never has to race uphill, so no one knows how good he is, but like I say, i've heard he's no hill climb champ (why would he be!).

Nino Schurter and Julien Absalon are both strong descenders, it's a bit daft to say they're not, particularly as you have no clue and are just absurdly prejudiced against xc racers, as you've proven before with your claims of being better!

It does transfer to XC for many, and does for Peat. He used to race XC, is supremely fit. MBUK did an article to see who was the best allrounder and fittest from four top riders from DH, 4X, XC and trials including Peaty. He won. Was very close to the XC rider at that discipline.

It's certainly a bit daft to assume DH riders cannot do XC well. Many can.

Anonymous

In fact, many of the big names in DH started off as XC riders. Not amny start off in DH and go on to XC.
That may mean that a lot of the top DH guys are already multi-faceted.

Shaggy_Dog

I was thinking of just building on the current UCI or British cycling race series(es? what is the plural of series?) and making some outsider rules. Like an exclusive club, in a treehouse!

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Also, is dirt jumping/slopestyle included? Or are they ignored because they're judged events?

No, I hadn't thought of that. Personally I don't consider DJ/SS real mountain biking so that explains why it didn't come to mind. I consider freeride to be a form of mountain biking, but again being a judged event it would be difficult to integrate

Anonymous

Fair enough. There's enough controversy in judged events as it is. Although, I do think they're all part of mountain biking, particularly slopestyle (which is basically judged freeriding)

Shaggy_Dog

Compound post!

Oli Beckinsale, who you mentioned earlier is still racing and has just signed over to Endura Equipe team as their only MTBer.

He was also a rider who successfully went from DH to XC.

Shaggy_Dog

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Fair enough. There's enough controversy in judged events as it is. Although, I do think they're all part of mountain biking, particularly slopestyle (which is basically judged freeriding)

Probably best if we avoid the "what is freeriding?" question if we don't want this topic to go off on a massive tangent

bike-a-swan

Wasn't the mbuk test more of a balance, strength and fitness test? All important, don't get me wrong, but not quite the real comparison.

As for xc racers walking bits, consider that it might be because they've got to ride it again and again and again, and on a race bike- could simply be more energy efficient in their opinion. Also lower risk- my mate races cyclocross, and while he's more than capable of tanking it along and over all the obstacles on the bike, it's only slightly slower to run them and a damn sight less risky, and it only takes one bad spill to put him well back in the race.

supersonic

My case for Peaty:

He started in XC, though I don't know his results. Also done trials. But of course DH is where his main skills lie. Has won:

1x World Champion
17x World Cup wins
3x World Cup champion
8x National champion
7x National Series champion
3x European champion
X games winner

Oh, was 4x national champ too.

Shaggy_Dog

bike-a-swan wrote:

Wasn't the mbuk test more of a balance, strength and fitness test? All important, don't get me wrong, but not quite the real comparison.

As for xc racers walking bits, consider that it might be because they've got to ride it again and again and again, and on a race bike- could simply be more energy efficient in their opinion. Also lower risk- my mate races cyclocross, and while he's more than capable of tanking it along and over all the obstacles on the bike, it's only slightly slower to run them and a damn sight less risky, and it only takes one bad spill to put him well back in the race.

There was another one about a year before that one, it was Oli Beckinsale, Chris Akrigg, Dan Atherton and Peaty. Each rider had to choose one bike and race 4 events on it. Peaty won and Oli came last in every event but his own

bike-a-swan

Ah, missed that one. How did Akrigg do?

supersonic

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

bike-a-swan wrote:

Wasn't the mbuk test more of a balance, strength and fitness test? All important, don't get me wrong, but not quite the real comparison.

As for xc racers walking bits, consider that it might be because they've got to ride it again and again and again, and on a race bike- could simply be more energy efficient in their opinion. Also lower risk- my mate races cyclocross, and while he's more than capable of tanking it along and over all the obstacles on the bike, it's only slightly slower to run them and a damn sight less risky, and it only takes one bad spill to put him well back in the race.

There was another one about a year before that one, it was Oli Beckinsale, Chris Akrigg, Dan Atherton and Peaty. Each rider had to choose one bike and race 4 events on it. Peaty won and Oli came last in every event but his own

That's the one!

Shaggy_Dog

Anyway, the point isn't who's best right now based on anyone's opinion, but could an all-round event happen to set it in stone? All of the pro's are busy specialising in their, er, specialities. It's possible an unknown rider could take the crown as UK's or world's no1 all round MTBer

Shaggy_Dog

...and Akrigg came second

supersonic

bike-a-swan wrote:

Ah, missed that one. How did Akrigg do?

I'll try and find the article. Is somwhere in my four foot pile of bike mags lol.

Anonymous

bike-a-swan wrote:

, it's only slightly slower to run them and a damn sight less risky, and it only takes one bad spill to put him well back in the race.

As far as I'm concerned, that's just not racing. If there's an opportunity to go faster, you take it. Intentionally taking a slower option is just crap.

aaronmroach

+ 1 for the Absalon brother altho im going for remy!!!

Megavalanche champion 09 10, downhill marathon winner 09, XC stud, freeride god, DH nutter and dabled with trials as a kid!!!

Id love to say Rob the God Warner or shaun palmer however the alcohol got in their way

mattpage

Steve Peat is obviously excellent downhill but very quick XC as well. I am sure he would do well in an XC race at Expert/Masters level.

I believe Nino Schurter won a round of the Mega Avalanche, although not the main Alp Duez(sp?) one. He is exceptionally skillful on the downhills and would beat just about everyone uphill.

It's a tough call, but personally I'd say Nino or someone of similar fitness/skill.

njee20

Good lad matt, wave the XC banner :-)

No offense to Oli Beck, he's a nice guy and a great rider, but he's not bothering the podium at World Cup XC, Nino et al are a leap up again. And yeeha you've not seen Nino Schurter walking sections.

Peaty may be a good expert/master XC racer, but that's an absolute country mile away from the Worlds best!

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

Peaty may be a good expert/master XC racer, but that's an absolute country mile away from the Worlds best!

And yet the world's best XC rider's aren't a country mile away from him at DH? :roll:
riiiiight.

Shaggy_Dog

I'm not a big fence sitter, but I think it's fair to say that someone who is at the very top of their game at one discipline is going to be at a serious disadvantage to the very best at their own game. I think if this thing were to happen, a lesser known name would take it.

Really depends on the rules that would be set, it'd have to be so that someone like Absalon, Prokop or Hill couldn't just walk away with it.

Anonymous

It definitely could be a complete outsider, that's why I'm so excited about such a series.that and the fact it's more reminiscent of just general "mountain biking" as most people know it.

tri-sexual

great idea but hate races where they run different events on different days where they faff about with scoring and points systems ( i'm thinking of things like the decathlon where athetes start with a slow 100m and then take days doing other events to a satisfactory standard then finishing with a slow 1500m race and even when the 1500m is over no one knows whos won overall until people with calculators have worked out the points -jack of all trades and master of none springs to mind)

for a best all round mountain biker race/ competition to succeed would require serious sponsorship (red bull springs to mind) and riders sponsored by bike companies who will pour huge amounts of money to attract the best of the best and to tempt different riders to ride out of their comfort disciplines and attempt different styles of riding.
each race should be a single race where riders are allowed one bike and they must ride the entire race on that one bike. adjustments to the bike are allowed on the fly by changeing shocks, forks geometry settings. a manufacturer who claims that their new rig is "an all mountain" can prove it. they must race their bike over all terrains and climb (for hours if need be) until they reach the downhill sections before racing down again.
these single day races can form a part of a world championship (like F1) with events staged all around the world.

Shaggy_Dog

Fair enough but if someone gets to the top of an hour long climb 10 minutes ahead of his rivals, he'll win almost by default. Even if you started a megavalanche at the bottom of the hill, had to ride to the top and all the way back down again the fastest climber will take the win.