Best all-round mountain biker - Thinking out loud

Shaggy_Dog

There hasn't been an all round big-name MTBer since the days of Johnny-T when he dominated XC, DH and road racing. Mark Weir is a big hero of mine for his awesome all-round skill and fitness, he also rides an equally awesome looking Nomad. A lot of mag features hark back to the days of turning up to an MTB event and doing XC, DH, Trials and dual slalom on the same bike, and even a couple of features recreating it with riders from many forms of MTBing. I think RetroBike (or was it singletrack) ran an event where you had to compete in 3 different disciplines on the same (retro) bike.

With the bulk of full suspension bikes being purchased in the UK being 120-160mm trail/all-mountain bikes, wouldn't it be cool to do an all-round mountain bike series? The manufacturers would see it as a platform to promote their biggest selling lines and new stars would surely be born. We've already had the MBUK/Kona Mas-Up at Afan which was kind of an all-mountain race, but there was only the one weekend and it didn't go into full DH mode, or full blown XC for that matter. Another point is we don't really have big enough mountains for Megavalanche style endurance downhill races and that style of racing

What I think is needed is a points system, based on the current UCI/British Cycling racing series where a combined points tally recognises the best all-rounder. Since the results of BC races are published online it wouldn't be hard to tally up the points and have an unofficial winner anyway. The only problem I would foresee is that many races would clash but then that could be part of the fun, choose races/events that you think you can do well in to maximise your points. Extra points could be earned for competing in non-BC events such as Bristol Bikefest or Mashup style events.

There would have to be rules, otherwise the overall winner of a particular series could walk away with the trophy without competing in any other disciplines.

Possible rules could be that:

- Your points from one particular discipline must not amount to no more than 75% of your total score, otherwise they must be forfeited.

- You must compete on the same bike - or at least the same rolling chassis - throughout the series, otherwise the points shall be forfeited. Could be a problem if you snap a frame mid-season.

Whether the points should be based on the overall standing at a given event or against other "all-mountain" competitors would be tricky, as some people competing for the AM trophy may be racing DH that day where others may be racing XC in another location. On the other hand, if it were to be based on the overall standings at a particular event, AM competitors would be at a disadvantage to the hardcore specialists because their machinery will be compromised in some way.

Like I said, this is just thinking out loud. I'm not saying let's do it, but it would be interesting to get your views on whether it would be possible and potential rules.

bennett_346

st3ve pe4t iz da best

Shaggy_Dog

Is something wrong with your keyboard?

Anonymous

I like it. Therefore it must be the right way forward.

weescott

Good post.

Long gone are the days of the do it all MTB hero. We can't blast down a fireroad and call it DH anymore.

I was excited by No Fuss Events advertising of MacAvalanche: http://www.nofussevents.co.uk/event/Macavalanche/1357/

This is more my thing much like the Kona Mash up. I guess this is along the lines of what you are thinking?

pirwin1

You might like to check this out: http://www.ukgravityenduro.co.uk/public/default.aspx

It's a new race series for this year.

Dan_xz

I'm sure I read something about a multi discipline race weekend just recently. It was Trials, downhill and XC all on the same bike.,..can;t for the life of me find it again but I'm not imagining it!!

Dick Scruttock

Shaggy dog.

He rides with no dropper post and has never felt the need to drop his post at any point on the trail. Everyone else needs to MTFU DickHead :roll:

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

I just MTFU and leave the saddle up

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... highlight=

Shaggy_Dog

I was thinking more along the lines of racing XC and DH and getting an aggregate scoring rather than a "Downhilly type XC thing all rolled into one". Maybe extra points for those AM events and endurance, trials, 4x and miniDH

supersonic

Steve Peat.

Shaggy_Dog

supersonic wrote:

Steve Peat.

Ha, you would say that Mr Chapeltown! Being a Westcountry lad I'll have to retort with Gee Atherton, he's still racing the odd bit of 4x.

getonyourbike

me... just kidding Gee Atherton or Steve Peat, close call

Herbie The Dog

Andrew Shandro. I think he's done most disciplines.

cee

Your all Wrong.

Its Stevie Deas from I-Cycles in Innerleithen.

:shock:

Shaggy_Dog

This isn't really the debate I was trying to open...

njee20

Julien Absalon or Nino Schurter.

You could walk down a DH course and only lose 5 minutes (likely less assuming the DH guys are on XC-type bikes anyway), however no DH racer would get within 5 minutes of the fittest racers in an XC race, who in reality are good bike handlers anyway.

Anonymous

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Steve Peat.

Ha, you would say that Mr Chapeltown! Being a Westcountry lad I'll have to retort with Gee Atherton, he's still racing the odd bit of 4x.

I'd have to go with Peaty as well. He's pretty handy at trials as well, which is something I've not seen Gee do.

njee20 wrote:

Julien Absalon or Nino Schurter.
You could walk down a DH course and only lose 5 minutes (likely less assuming the DH guys are on XC-type bikes anyway), however no DH racer would get within 5 minutes of the fittest racers in an XC race, who in reality are good bike handlers anyway.

I think you're incorrect on so many levels. If it takes, say 3 minutes to ride a Dh track at race speeds, it would certainly take you more than 5 to walk it. Much more.
I also think you're discounting the fitness of riders like Gee though. He (they) might not have the outright endurance of an XC purist, but I reckon you'd be surprised how close some of the top guys would get.
And, if it was an all-rounder event, trials would play a part as well.

cee

njee20 wrote:

Julien Absalon or Nino Schurter.

You could walk down a DH course and only lose 5 minutes (likely less assuming the DH guys are on XC-type bikes anyway), however no DH racer would get within 5 minutes of the fittest racers in an XC race, who in reality are good bike handlers anyway.

so you reckon you could walk down the fort bill DH track in 9 minutes?

I honestly doubt it....

but agree with the general point that I would be more minutes behind absalon in an xc race, than i would behind steave peat on a given dh track.

its counting apples and pears though

jairaj

sorry have to disagree with njee20. The race distances are very different so you can't compare absolute times you have to compare relative times.

Assuming you can actually walk down DH track in 5mins and it takes a pro DH racer 2.5mins to ride it. Thats being 100% slower.

If a XC race takes 2.5 hours to complete by a pro XC racer then surely the DH racer has 5 hours to complete the race? Which im sure the good pro DH racers could do.

Anonymous

Plus, you need to factor in that there should be an equal share of importance on all events, so if all the DH guys were bunched together at the rear of the XC race, and all the XC guys were bunched together at the rear of the DH race, then the points system would need to accomodate the entire field so that you got SOME points for finishing either events, to give a better idea of who was the best all rounder.

(although it's unlikely that all the riders from one discipline would be bunched behind all the riders of the other discipline)

welshkev

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Steve Peat.

Ha, you would say that Mr Chapeltown! Being a Westcountry lad I'll have to retort with Gee Atherton, he's still racing the odd bit of 4x.

I'd have to go with Peaty as well. He's pretty handy at trials as well, which is something I've not seen Gee do.
.

but i've never seen peaty do red bull rampage like stuff :?

Thewaylander

Njee I also disagree.

For a reasonable comparison the time needs to be taken as a percentage of the event time so

If Peaty did DH in 3min, and an xc guy did it 5min thats 3/5*100 its 66% difference
Peaty against an XC guy 2 hours race say 10 minutes difference 10/120*100 8% difference

That would mean Peaty slaughtered the XC lad. and the XC lad needs to go a huge wad faster to catch that up.

Anonymous

welshkev wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Steve Peat.

Ha, you would say that Mr Chapeltown! Being a Westcountry lad I'll have to retort with Gee Atherton, he's still racing the odd bit of 4x.

I'd have to go with Peaty as well. He's pretty handy at trials as well, which is something I've not seen Gee do.
.

but i've never seen peaty do red bull rampage like stuff :?

Does the rampage make Gee more of an all-rounder? Or just nucking futs?

welshkev

yeehaamcgee wrote:

welshkev wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Steve Peat.

Ha, you would say that Mr Chapeltown! Being a Westcountry lad I'll have to retort with Gee Atherton, he's still racing the odd bit of 4x.

I'd have to go with Peaty as well. He's pretty handy at trials as well, which is something I've not seen Gee do.
.

but i've never seen peaty do red bull rampage like stuff :?

Does the rampage make Gee more of an all-rounder? Or just nucking futs?

probably just the second one

bike-a-swan

He's not quite in the same league as Gee, Peaty, Absalon or Nino, but I'd rank Chris Akrigg as a good all round rider.

getonyourbike

Thewaylander wrote:

Njee I also disagree.

For a reasonable comparison the time needs to be taken as a percentage of the event time so

If Peaty did DH in 3min, and an xc guy did it 5min thats 3/5*100 its 66% difference
Peaty against an XC guy 2 hours race say 10 minutes difference 10/120*100 8% difference

That would mean Peaty slaughtered the XC lad. and the XC lad needs to go a huge wad faster to catch that up.

I was also thinking along that line

njee20

Fair point, but I reckon those differences are all to cock, Peaty is not a great climber (from people who've ridden with him) and if he's on the same bike for the XC I reckon he may be 25% quicker than a top XC pro on a DH course (at most), I reckon he'd lose that over a 2 hour XC race.

Essentially people are underestimating the skill of top XC racers, particularly when you put everyone on the same bike.

Still virtually impossible to compare though, they're good at different things!

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

Essentially people are underestimating the skill of top XC racers, particularly when you put everyone on the same bike.

I think you may be doing the opposite as well.

njee20 wrote:

Still virtually impossible to compare though, they're good at different things!

Well, that's the point of this whole thing, isn't it? To find the best overall?

Shaggy_Dog

Agreed, besides I think it should be based on the position you come, not the time you place. for example if you came mid-field you'd get 50 points, regardless of whether you're 50 minutes or 50 seconds behind. Last time I raced at Cwm Carn DH there was only a minute separating the entire men's field, both Elite and Senior. At Bristol Bikefest it might be several hours between first and last if everyone had to match the number of laps of the winner.

On another note you could award points based on a time percentage like old F1 qualifying (when I used to watch F1 aaaaages ago you had to lap within 107% of the fastest time).

For example, first place in an XC race with a time of lets say 1h40 mins (or 100 mins) which earns him 1000 points in the AM trophy and separately whatever British Cycling points he would usually take home, another XC rider comes in 10 minutes later, thereby taking 10% longer, he takes 900 points. Someone who takes 2h30 would take home 500 points. If someone took more than twice as long, they would earn no points. This can be applied to downhill too. That way the fastest DH rider would take 1000 and so would the fastest XC rider. People who do so dismally bad as to take twice as long as first place don't deserve any points! :twisted:

Dual Slalom/4X/Trials would be a little harder to award points to, any ideas?

njee20

Why? You're judging Steve Peats performance on a DH bike and assume it would transfer to XC, whilst excelling at his own discipline on an unfamiliar bike. He never has to race uphill, so no one knows how good he is, but like I say, i've heard he's no hill climb champ (why would he be!).

Nino Schurter and Julien Absalon are both strong descenders, it's a bit daft to say they're not, particularly as you have no clue and are just absurdly prejudiced against xc racers, as you've proven before with your claims of being better!

Anonymous

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

Dual Slalom/4X/Trials would be a little harder to award points to, any ideas?

Yes. Just give 1 point for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place etc etc etc, right through until the last entrant in the series.
Then whoever has the fewest points at the end wins.

Makes it easier to accommodate for differing numbers of riders each year. And is simple to follow.
A DNF, or a failure to turn up would get the highest points + 50 (to discourage people skipping events they're not keen on).