Best all-round mountain biker - Thinking out loud

tri-sexual

you're assuming all climbers are capable of DH, also take into account of crashes etc. different races on different courses should be designed so that there is no one single type of rider would be dominant in all the races.
add some northshore etc to test the riders bike handling skills and this would even out the competitors even more so who ever gets to the finish line first is the best all round mountain biker.

njee20

We're assuming that top XC pros can descend, and top DH pros can climb, which are pretty safe assumptions I reckon! In fact in the former it's not an assumption at all! Schurter FTW.

Is north shore mainly skill, or balls? I'd say the latter.

Anonymous

Oh no, someone give njee his meds, for god's sake.

tri-sexual

njee20 wrote:

We're assuming that top XC pros can descend, and top DH pros can climb, which are pretty safe assumptions I reckon! In fact in the former it's not an assumption at all! Schurter FTW.

Is north shore mainly skill, or balls? I'd say the latter.

you assume too much
its like assuming chris hoy can competitive in the tour de france
or a marathon runner can be competitive doing 100m sprints

and as well as northshore they should include big jumps as well, it would make better viewing and to give more credibility to the title of best mountain bike rider rather than just another xc slog race. climbs should be lung burstingly long, northshore should be high and technical, jumps should be pant wettingly gnarly and the downhills should be properly dangerous with jagged rocks the size of washing machines.
all this should be done on a single bike with the only adjustments which can only be done on the fly and built into bike design.
should be interesting, bike makers will have to be creative and will be great marketing for their bikes

njee20

No, it's not because XC racers race down hills too, and the worlds best are a lot better at it than many people think, many having raced DH/BMX etc as well. The Chris Hoy analogy is totally flawed, as is the assumption that a DH racer can still ride uphill. It's likely there'll be some strong climbers, but not a given!

If XC races were 100% uphill it would indeed be a wild assumption, luckily they're not!

bike-a-swan

yeehaamcgee wrote:

bike-a-swan wrote:

, it's only slightly slower to run them and a damn sight less risky, and it only takes one bad spill to put him well back in the race.

As far as I'm concerned, that's just not racing. If there's an opportunity to go faster, you take it. Intentionally taking a slower option is just crap.

Rubbish, that's exactly racing. Do you take the quicker lunatic line or the slower safer option- if you pull it off you gain time, stuff it up and you're out. It's knowing there's that kind of choice available that makes racing interesting to do and better to watch.

tri-sexual

its the diffrence in terrain and the skills required in the different dections which will make interesting racing. and determine the best mtb rider
cant climb or poor endurance- wont win the race
cant downhill-wont win the race
no jumping skills- no chance of winning
only the rider who can do it all will stand a chance of winning the title of best rider

Shaggy_Dog

No, no, no, no, no. It should be based on the existing formats, separate races for XC and DH. Otherwise it isn't a test of true all round ability because the race will not be pure XC or DH, just an XC race with jumps and technical sections. Those things exist now and are a bit poo

supersonic

There is no doubt that some top XC and XC riders have great bike handling skills. But I don't think they match that of a top DHer or 4X rider, where the skill is more of a priority than total fitness. I don't think they all have the balls either:

Do you take the quicker lunatic line or the slower safer option- if you pull it off you gain time, stuff it up and you're out

If he was a little younger I'd say Brian Lopes was the best. Great record in XC, DH, BMX and 4X, plus former record holder for bunny hopping. Supremely fit athlete with supreme bike handling.

njee20

Definitely agree that even the best XC racers arent as skilled as the best DHers, the question is... Are they better descenders than the downhillers are climbers?

I reckon a younger Lopes would be a good shout.

supersonic

And on the same vein - Tomac. Even road in there!

Atz

I'll throw another name in for the fun of it, Chris Akrigg. Can't speak for his fitness of course but it seems that he doesn't particularly ride any discipline, he just "rides bikes". As an attitude I think it's a fantastic one and his bike handling skills are undeniable.

Shaggy_Dog

supersonic wrote:

There is no doubt that some top XC and XC riders have great bike handling skills. But I don't think they match that of a top DHer or 4X rider, where the skill is more of a priority than total fitness. I don't think they all have the balls either:

Do you take the quicker lunatic line or the slower safer option- if you pull it off you gain time, stuff it up and you're out

If he was a little younger I'd say Brian Lopes was the best. Great record in XC, DH, BMX and 4X, plus former record holder for bunny hopping. Supremely fit athlete with supreme bike handling.

Winning 4x is mostly about getting the snap out of the gate and getting the holeshot in the first corner. It's a different type of fitness, but it's still a big deal

legin

me,just dont tell anyone

supersonic

Shaggy_Dog wrote:

supersonic wrote:

There is no doubt that some top XC and XC riders have great bike handling skills. But I don't think they match that of a top DHer or 4X rider, where the skill is more of a priority than total fitness. I don't think they all have the balls either:

Do you take the quicker lunatic line or the slower safer option- if you pull it off you gain time, stuff it up and you're out

If he was a little younger I'd say Brian Lopes was the best. Great record in XC, DH, BMX and 4X, plus former record holder for bunny hopping. Supremely fit athlete with supreme bike handling.

Winning 4x is mostly about getting the snap out of the gate and getting the holeshot in the first corner. It's a different type of fitness, but it's still a big deal

Strength

Shaggy_Dog

supersonic wrote:

Strength

Explosive strength specifically. XC riders have dynamic strength, the abilty to move a load for a sustaioned period

bluechair84

I like the idea - it's something I'd love to enter.

My tuppence as to how it could work;
Chicsands could be an interesting venue for it as it has everything there. Make it a weekend event. Every line could have a marshall and you get points everytime you hit a drop / clear a section of shore / complete a section of XC.
There could be a 'par' for the XC route where a score is given for being over or under 'par time'. It could be organised in one of two ways; freedom to roam where there is a declining score for each venue; so 10 for attempt one, 9 for attempt two etc. This way you have to attempt as many disciplines as you can at least once to garner the most points. It would almost be like trailquesting where you can see where the points are, you have to attack them strategically. Most points wins.
Or it could be organised like circuit training where you have to move on to the next discipline, but there are options of difficulty worth a range of points; long XC = more points, then move around to the drops where biggest drop = most points, then slalom, 4x, shore and DJs.

Anonymous

My head hurts just reading bluechair's scoring system :-S
Sounds like the most miserable, over complicated idea yet. Keep it simple, keep it intuitive.

bluechair84

I suppose there's plenty of trail centres with a descent spread of disciplines catered for, so a potential 'day long event' series could include Chicsands, Innerleithan etc... Maybe you could collect trailquest style 'stamps' for completing a section of DH or XC or anything else. Two potential scoring systems; either a maximum amount of stamps for each discipline forcing you to get a spread / or you can do each discipline as many times as you like, but each new attempt is worth fewer points so you could concentrate on the things you are best at, but it will be harder to win overall this way.

If that's no better then it must be the idea that's crap

Anonymous

It would still bee.a.complete nightmare for any spectators to figure out what's going on. Just too complicated.
I've never heard of trailquest, and maybe that's why.
If its going to attract the big names, it needs sponsors, and to get sponsors it needs.spectators. To keep spectators happy it has to be simple to follow what's going on, and immediate.

lochussie

There was a race recently where Vouilloz kept overtaking the enduro guys on the gnarr but getting caught on the fitness bits, sounded quite an interesting battle. Would be cool to have diff route choices like on 4X tracks. But a one race format is not a decisive arbiter of all-round ability as result is largely determined by how much of each discipline the organiser includes.

Anyway, my vote goes to the guys that are winning the Mega etc. Check out this series:
http://www.innerleithenmtbracing.com/se ... result=100

bluechair84

I was thinking along the lines of an event that the everyday rider can get in on and enjoy a spread of disciplines competitively.

Glencoe is a damn hard DH track missing just massive drops. It's also getting about 15km of orange/red/blue XC trails from the top lift as well this year (hoora!). A venue like that could be used where say - everyone has to set a time down the DH course, down a red and up a blue. Shortest overall time wins. Because there will be a variety of XC routes down the mountain of varying difficuly, the ascent could be chosen to keep things close when comparing climbing with ascending difficulty. Going up the blue for instance won't seperate the pack as much as going up the red I imagine.

Anonymous

bluechair84 wrote:

I was thinking along the lines of an event that the everyday rider can get in on and enjoy a spread of disciplines competitively.

Although there are some very talented "everyday riders", I find it highly unlikely that they would best the professionals in an all round test.

And I still reckon to find the best, the course would have to challenge the very best. There should be extremes of all events. Not some watered down namby pamby version. I'm talking World Cup DH, XC, 4X and trials courses.

Atz

Sounds a lot like the Singletrack weekender. Maybe just buy a ticket for that instead?

Shaggy_Dog

Atz wrote:

Sounds a lot like the Singletrack weekender. Maybe just buy a ticket for that instead?

I don't have a beard so wouldn't be eligible

Zziplex

My mate Dan is a good all round mountain biker, he's good at putting them together too and he fixes helicopters in dusty shlt hole countries. I'd say he's probably the best all-round mountain biker I know. 8)

bluechair84

Sure a pro event would be alright, but I don't buy mags or search online for race results now and I wouldn't if an AM race was created. It would completely pass me by. Someone said it would be a great way of companies showcasing their AM machines but I'm not convinced enough people actually identify with the sport through what is happening on the circuit for companies to benefit. Surely it would only 'geekifiy' the world of MB to ousiders, making the sport look even more pretentious by creating a new event for another discipline specific bike?

I think this would be better for everyday riders who are real mountain bikers to experience the wider abilities of their bike. I get pretty frustrated being held up behind riders on techy singletrack then being overtaken by the blokes behind me on the ascents. A multi discipline event would be an excellent leveller and one I think people would enjoy if it was incorporated in local races, and not at a pro level. Local events are always won by the fittest, not the most skilled. What bike you are riding barely even comes into it and I think the OPs proposition is better for the sport at a club rather than pro level.[/i]

Anonymous

bluechair84 wrote:

I think this would be better for everyday riders who are real mountain bikers to experience the wider abilities of their bike. I get pretty frustrated being held up behind riders on techy singletrack then being overtaken by the blokes behind me on the ascents. A multi discipline event would be an excellent leveller and one I think people would enjoy if it was incorporated in local races,

But people CAN ride all discplines already, if they choose to. :?

bluechair84

yeehaamcgee wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

I think this would be better for everyday riders who are real mountain bikers to experience the wider abilities of their bike. I get pretty frustrated being held up behind riders on techy singletrack then being overtaken by the blokes behind me on the ascents. A multi discipline event would be an excellent leveller and one I think people would enjoy if it was incorporated in local races,

But people CAN ride all discplines already, if they choose to. :roll: :?

But not competitively - a rider who considers themselves an all round rider, or who chooses to ride an AM bike can't be competitive in a single discipline race; which there is a very wide choice of. What the OP is proposing I think would represent the kind of riding that more people want to do as represented by the flux in AM bike sales (unless its a fashion fad).

[edited for fluency]

Anonymous

Sorry, the rolleyes thing was a miss-click

There is no "flux" or massive increase (flux means change, by the way) in AM sales. It's just a name for "Mountain bike". But by having a tag, they can be marketted more excitingly to people than "general purpose bike".

Why would everyday riders want to compete in an all-round event? I'm not great at climbing, because I prefer some freeriding or attacking trails that point downwards. I wouldn't even bother entering an XC race, or any race that requires endurance - that kinf of thing doesn't interest me.
But I would love to see the real top-end of professional riders gun it out for an overall win.

Mountain biking is all things to all people, and the current segregation of races into DH, XC, 4X etc doesn't really reflect that.