Who on BR has bought a 'cheap' Chinese carbon frame?

alfablue

GoingCarbon wrote:

thespanishadam wrote:

I personally don't see these frames being that much of a bargain. Not when considering the PX nanolight at the moment...

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FRP ... nd-headset

Jeez, that sounds like quiet a reduction £1,199 to £499. But are they any good? Any got one of these or their predecessor and can provide a review?

That said, I still like the idea of importing my own in Matte White.

I have the SL Pro which was Planet-X's carbon road frame for years, prior to the Nanolight.arriving. The SL Pro is available for £360. This doesn't include forks and headset which will add another £120, in which case the Nanolight looks better value (however P-X have frequent offers and clearance sales so I expect a complete SL frameset will be available at the lower price sometime soon).

There are thousands of happy riders with this bike (the same frame has appeared on Cinelli and Massi bikes at much higher prices), and it has, in various builds, achieved high review ratings (Cycling Plus awarded 9 a couple of years ago). There are a lot of people who hate the Planet-X but these are people who don't have them, and who paid £2k for their bikes.

For me it meant I got a comfy and fast 8kg complete bike for £999, with DA shifters and mechs.

Monty Dog

The picture has just confirmed that the P-X Nanolight and the R838 (Ribble Stealth/DeRosa) are both from the same factory - Xpace. Ribble Stealth f+f is currently £600 with discount, R838 frame from Carbonzone is £370 including shipping, so still a reasonable saving if you're prepared to take the risk.

As usual all the naysayers have no experience to speak off - it's just speculation or conjecture.

In terms of titanium there's Xi'an / Xacd or HiLite titanium - HiLite make VNs frames.

45rpm

cheers! 1stGenRex

amaferanga

mcrdave wrote:

In reality, you don't pay import duty from most Far East frames, creative labelling gets round that. VAT and 'admin' nope. Paint jobs, about £20 - 30 extra from most of the ebay sellers to your own custom design.

So take this frame from a trusted seller:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/full-Carbon-matt- ... 230d32b6ed

£370 is the price you pay, nothing more.

The Planet X does look like a bargain right now, so does everything in the January sales but what about the other 11 months?

While your experience is that you don't get stung for import duty and VAT, mine is different. 2 items (Magicshine light and a tent), import duty and VAT on both.

If you're lucky then I agree that they are bargains and I would certainly consider getting one (I actually came quite close last year when I thought I'd trashed my frame in a fall), but I think it'd be a bit daft to assume you won't have to pay import duty and VAT.

gb155

With regard Tax, you tend to find from USA I get hit EVERY SINGLE Time, however from HK, China etc, I have , so far, NEVER been hit for tax/import duty.

As for the frame's weight limit, I contacted the seller and they told me ts rated for a rider up-to 300KG, I went back to the seller and said that seems VERY high, higher than a lot of Alu frames and asked if they meant 300Lbs, they came back and said No, 300KG, "These are stronger than Alu"

So Im not sure what to think, 300 lbs I could have believed , the Madone is after all rated for 275Lbs, but a "Cheap" carbon frame that will hold 660lbs ?????? Can this REALLY be true ?

I now have more questions than answers LOL

GoingCarbon

Which if any of the China sourced frames could be refered to as "high-end" carbon?

The FM015 and the R830 look great but if Planet-X are offering similar for under £500 I'm assuming they're entry level carbon frames?

Apols if that sounds naive but my current frames are both high-end aluminum, carbon will be a new experience :oops:

Mark Elvin

www.dengfubikes.com

jonmack

Would be interesting to compare the "Chinarello" frame with a "legit" Pinarello and see the differences, I'm not talking visually, I mean structurally, stress tests and that kind of thing.

Intherain

I think someone on the bikereview forum got some of this type of data. Its buried somewhere within the 4 different threads on there but I would hate to have to search through to find it again!

Of course, you are relying on the data the manufacturer/exporter sends you being legit....!

I think there is some technical data here:

http://cheapcarbonframes.com/

Has anyone here compared a chinarello and pinarello side by side?

andyrr

Re Pina/Chinarello, I'm sure on the most recent RBR thread (I'll have a dig later to try to find the post(s) but prob about 4 weeks back ?) there are some basic side-by-side comparisons and the 'copy' frame is not an identical copy (although there are likely more than a single copy frame so that is not an absolute), and from 20 yds the 2 frames seem identical but there are small differences, IIRC things like the way the cables route etc and lead me to think that they are cosmetic copies but aren't the same frames barring the paint. The Pinarello may be getting 'copied' as the appearance is so distinctive and has been riden by some of the very biggest teams (Sky, Caisse etc), plus it may also be that they are made in the same factories so getting the moulds might be easy but getting the frame structure/composition, takes more effort/money for the precise frame as sold with the Pina name on.
Just my 2p worth.

GoingCarbon

Would those that have sourced their carbon frame from China agree that the FM015/R838 are near the standard of a Pinarello carbon branded frame?

robz400

The De Rosa R838 had brilliant review and won Cycling Weekly's Race Bike of the Year in 2010....

So I can't see it being of any less standard...

de_sisti

mcrdave wrote:

As far as titanium goes, there doesn't seem to be the same set up as with the carbon frame so bargains are very few and far between, I think the material cost is so high that there isn't the same margins as with carbon. Only far east titanium manufacturer I know of is http://bikesoul.com/2009/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=40

You could try xacd.com I've bought 3 titanium frames from them (kept 2, sold 1). No extra import duties paid. :wink

1stGenRex

andyrr wrote:

Re Pina/Chinarello, I'm sure on the most recent RBR thread (I'll have a dig later to try to find the post(s) but prob about 4 weeks back ?) there are some basic side-by-side comparisons and the 'copy' frame is not an identical copy (although there are likely more than a single copy frame so that is not an absolute), and from 20 yds the 2 frames seem identical but there are small differences, IIRC things like the way the cables route etc and lead me to think that they are cosmetic copies but aren't the same frames barring the paint. The Pinarello may be getting 'copied' as the appearance is so distinctive and has been riden by some of the very biggest teams (Sky, Caisse etc), plus it may also be that they are made in the same factories so getting the moulds might be easy but getting the frame structure/composition, takes more effort/money for the precise frame as sold with the Pina name on.
Just my 2p worth.

and to add to this, you're buying "factory direct" it would seem to me, to you end up being the quality control inspector....that's worse case scenario.

GoingCarbon

Anyone painted, decaled and clear coated their own Chinese imported frame? And are very happy with the result?

P_Tucker

andyrr wrote:

Re Pina/Chinarello, I'm sure on the most recent RBR thread (I'll have a dig later to try to find the post(s) but prob about 4 weeks back ?) there are some basic side-by-side comparisons and the 'copy' frame is not an identical copy (although there are likely more than a single copy frame so that is not an absolute), and from 20 yds the 2 frames seem identical but there are small differences, IIRC things like the way the cables route etc and lead me to think that they are cosmetic copies but aren't the same frames barring the paint. The Pinarello may be getting 'copied' as the appearance is so distinctive and has been riden by some of the very biggest teams (Sky, Caisse etc), plus it may also be that they are made in the same factories so getting the moulds might be easy but getting the frame structure/composition, takes more effort/money for the precise frame as sold with the Pina name on.
Just my 2p worth.

Guess it depends on whether you think a different cable route and some possible "frame structure/composition" differences, whetever these might be, are worth 2 grand.

Monty Dog

I'd estimate that cheap frames (bare) leave the factory gate for $150 and the 'best' stuff like Cervelos and Pinarello for maybe 2-3x that. That's a helluva mark-up your're paying for a paintjob and a warranty!

The question about their QC is spurious bollox - people don't complain about their iphones, laptops and electronic goods that come from China - all the technology was kindly provided by western companies keen to exploit cheap and plentiful labour. Cooking some fibres and resin in a mould isn't exactly difficult - it's a semi-skilled job.

Berk Bonebonce

Monty Dog wrote:

The question about their QC is spurious bollox - people don't complain about their iphones, laptops and electronic goods that come from China - all the technology was kindly provided by western companies keen to exploit cheap and plentiful labour. Cooking some fibres and resin in a mould isn't exactly difficult - it's a semi-skilled job.

Frames made in China are made to the same EN standards as frames in Europe.

Fogliettaz

My road frame is entering its 3rd season and has the Etape to do this year as the highlight, during the last 2 years it has been round the Italian Lakes and the French Alps along with doing approx 3000 miles per season in the UK trying to keep my middle age spread at bay! I cannot sing its praises high enough, a fully carbon bike complete with Campag groupset and wheels for less than £800.00. I would not hesitate to buy another as the communication from the sellers is excellent and delivery is usually less than 7 days ex China.

Now all I need to do is get some of those carbon wheels they are advertising!

tri-sexual

Fogliettaz wrote:

My road frame is entering its 3rd season and has the Etape to do this year as the highlight, during the last 2 years it has been round the Italian Lakes and the French Alps along with doing approx 3000 miles per season in the UK trying to keep my middle age spread at bay! I cannot sing its praises high enough, a fully carbon bike complete with Campag groupset and wheels for less than £800.00. I would not hesitate to buy another as the communication from the sellers is excellent and delivery is usually less than 7 days ex China.

Now all I need to do is get some of those carbon wheels they are advertising!

any pictures? where did you buy other parts from for such a bargain complete build?

Fogliettaz

Pictures are on an earlier page, other parts, all new were sourced from internet sellers around Europe or where ever I could get the best price.

solarflash

Does anyone know what the planetx pro sl frame is (FM0xx etc)

Muztard

There've been a few naysayers but they seem to be those that haven't bought a Chinese frame. Is there anyone that has bought one that was/is severely disappointed and would advise us to stay clear?

45rpm

Muztard wrote:

There've been a few naysayers but they seem to be those that haven't bought a Chinese frame. Is there anyone that has bought one that was/is severely disappointed and would advise us to stay clear?

Not much take up on this question I see.....

Monty Dog

45rpm wrote:

Muztard wrote:

There've been a few naysayers but they seem to be those that haven't bought a Chinese frame. Is there anyone that has bought one that was/is severely disappointed and would advise us to stay clear?

Not much take up on this question I see.....

It's the dawning realisation of just how much extra they've paid for a fancy paintjob, a sometimes useless warranty, all those lovely full-page magazine adverts and free-bikes they lend out to magazine journalists to write gushing reviews having been flown to some exotic location!

Monty Dog

I should have also added pro-team sponsorship as well,,

GoingCarbon

45rpm wrote:

Muztard wrote:

There've been a few naysayers but they seem to be those that haven't bought a Chinese frame. Is there anyone that has bought one that was/is severely disappointed and would advise us to stay clear?

Not much take up on this question I see.....

The silence is deafening.

Interestingly there is someone on RoadBikeReview that's slating his frame but he seems to be getting short shrift from fellow contributors

Mark Elvin

GoingCarbon wrote:

45rpm wrote:

Muztard wrote:

There've been a few naysayers but they seem to be those that haven't bought a Chinese frame. Is there anyone that has bought one that was/is severely disappointed and would advise us to stay clear?

Not much take up on this question I see.....

The silence is deafening.

Interestingly there is someone on RoadBikeReview that's slating his frame but he seems to be getting short shrift from fellow contributors

I've seen that too.

Can't decide if he really has a bad frame, or if he's trying to rubbish them for "other reasons"

geebee2

Can't decide if he really has a bad frame, or if he's trying to rubbish them for "other reasons"

I don't think it's either of those - he has now admitted he measured the top tube wrong.

It seems his frame is fine, maybe a bit untidy inside, but his order was incomplete (no spare hanger) and he is now determined to find fault.

proto

geebee2 wrote:

It seems his frame is fine, maybe a bit untidy inside, but his order was incomplete (no spare hanger) and he is now determined to find fault.

Last year II built up an expensive BH TT frame. Looking inside the frame, the channels that routed the internal cables were a right mess, glue/resin everywhere. Horrible. I suspect pretty well all carbon frames are like this. Having said that, the BH was probably Chinese made as well!