Tuition fees march
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supersonic wrote:
But is that the case? You get a loan that you don't have to pay back until you are earning a set amount.
America is a very different way of living to England.
If you don't have enough money to qualify for a loan there to go to University, you don't. No doubts about it, work what everyone calls the "bottom of the barrell jobs"
I'm much more in favor of the systems in Europe, where people are given a fair chance to prove themselves, rather than relying on the parents 30 years of financial history to proove for them.0 -
When I left school (many years ago) and got an apprenticeship, a lot of my friends went to university. They got afree education in the subject of their choosing, if and only if they were good at it. They also recieved a grant to help with their living costs. That was 28 years ago, so we've obviously gone backwards as a nation. What is hard to stomach is people like Cameron and Clegg telling us this system is "fair". Fucking well pay back the costs of your education then, bastard hypocrites.0
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supersonic wrote:
But is that the case? You get a loan that you don't have to pay back until you are earning a set amount.
Exactly, If I wanted to set up my own business, say a bike shop, I have to pay for rent, and stock, and the cost of my living etc etc. I cant March and say that the cost of setting up a business is stifling my opportunity to succeed and prosper0 -
slowslowslow wrote:Physics has been slowly declining in uptake for years.
Yeah, sorry about that. Even though I was getting my fees paid I didn't complete my BA/MPhys. Dropped out 8 weeks before the exams in the 3rd year. I loved my subject, but I was a lazy, drunken, fecker back then. For 2 years I'd got by on what I already knew and a bit of imagination. Got harder to keep up the act and I sort of went a bit mad.
Ah well.0 -
It depends on the course and the uni.BlackSpur wrote:
It does? Damnn i had no idea
A 4 year masters course in physics at Birmingham has the 4th year costing the same as it would for any other year of the course, according to my housemate who's doing just that (ie, he's paying the £3200 or whatever the cap is at the moment).
My other housemate is doing an MSc in computer science, having already completed his BSc in physics. He's paying £4500 for the year.0 -
Yeah, sorry about that. Even though I was getting my fees paid I didn't complete my BA/MPhys. Dropped out 8 weeks before the exams in the 3rd year. I loved my subject, but I was a lazy, drunken, fecker back then. For 2 years I'd got by on what I already knew and a bit of imagination. Got harder to keep up the act and I sort of went a bit mad.
Pity, we were all drunken bums then.............0 -
That's what I said. You chose not to apply which is not the same as having an offer and then deciding to do something else. You don't know that you would have got an offer.yeehaamcgee wrote:I didn't choose to not try and get into uni, it didn't interest me in the least, I chose something else.
It's like me saying that I didn't choose to be an astronaut, it didn't interest me in the least, I chose something else. If I'd been offered the job of astronaut and decided to work at McDonalds instead then I would have been exercising choice.Canyon XC 8.0 '11
Whyte 19 steel '100 -
Surely choosing not to apply as you want to do something else is as much exercising choice as getting a place then not going?0
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I used to love space dust0
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woodnut wrote:I choose not to be president of the Milky Way. There. Piece of cake.
ooooooh, cake0 -
Man alive, you are so full of manure.Happy Harry wrote:That's what I said. You chose not to apply which is not the same as having an offer and then deciding to do something else. You don't know that you would have got an offer.
It's like me saying that I didn't choose to be an astronaut, it didn't interest me in the least, I chose something else. If I'd been offered the job of astronaut and decided to work at McDonalds instead then I would have been exercising choice.
So doing anything, instead of something that was offered to me, is not a "choice"? Right.0 -
slowslowslow wrote:Surely choosing not to apply as you want to do something else is as much exercising choice as getting a place then not going?
I have to agree, and I'm talking as someone who was offered a place at uni and turned it down. It's all well and good using silly analogies of astronauts, but let's talk about realistic possibilities. You don't need to apply to do a degree to know whether the cost of it is prohibitive or the content isn't right, regardless of whether you would be offered a place or not.0 -
oops, probibally should have payed more attention rather than watching the apprentice. yeah i see your point, the £50000 is including living costs, that my total loan payment. and i appreciate that it is a very very low interest rate, it gets written off after 30 years, and that its a negligable amount of income, but none the less, its still a stupidly large number.
the fees at the moment for mine are maximum, so i am paying my uni £15000 for the course. apologies for the confusion i caused with my £50000 statement without specifing that that covers roof over my head too
and the sandwich year is a year in full time employment, some are paid, from how the department at uni who deal with this make out, the vast majority are not (that might be bogus, just what my uni tells me).
oh and nope, not english degree, hence said product design
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How much extra would you expect to earn from a degree, compared to not doing one?0
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good point. parents always said some number that was very large, but i cannot for the life of me remember it. i appreciate that uni is a good investment (hence im here) but i just dont think it should be an elitist thing, where only the rich can afford to go
and i know a loan will still cover it, but i know people who are put off by being that much in debt, and i dont think thats right
just my opinion
oh, and for the record, i disagree with what the marchers did, ie vandalism and the like, cause it doesn't benefit anyone in any degree.0 -
So, £35000 on 5 years' living expenses. That works out to £7000 a year. And, as we're talking about debt, that's not including any grant.
I'm getting by perfectly happily on about £4800 a year maintenance (£1300 of that is a grant), with spare money to do as I please with. My brother, and most of my friends, are all in the same situation. If you're taking out another £2200 ayear of debt to afford to live, you're doing it wrong.0 -
im in london, my rent and bills alone is £400 a month dont worry, im hardly living beyond my means, with my loan between payments it works out as about £35 a week. 0
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Did anybody actually read what I said before criticising? Seems like all the critical posts are actually in agreement with my statement.Happy Harry wrote:unless you've achieved an offer you can't say you've chosen not to go to Uni. You can only say you've chosen not to try.
If you don't want to go to Uni you choose to do something else. (What yeehaa did)
If you do want to go to Uni you choose to try (to achieve the grades).
If you have an offer from a Uni you can actually choose to go or not to go.
If you don't have an offer then you can't say you've chosen not to go because you haven't got a choice. You haven't had an offer so you can't choose to go - you can only choose to not go. Is that a choice?
And this is not about educational ability, it's a debate about the meaning of the word choice, which is irrelevant but I feel I have to defend myself. I'll readily admit that I have virtually no academic qualifications whatsoever and Uni was definitely not a choice for me. I'm working class, me. And will be for a few years yet to pay for the boy's bloody university education ...Canyon XC 8.0 '11
Whyte 19 steel '100 -
No, harry, this is about you talking utter crap. As usual.
Anyone can choose to try for uni. Whether they succeed or not in getting in, does not mean it was not a choice.0 -
All this potential debt put upon students does nothing to aid social mobility.
Kids of rich parents won't need to worry about getting into debt. Kids of poor parents will probably decide it is not worth the hassle and risk.
Some jobs REQUIRE a degree. I suspect that in future only rich kids will be able to qualify for these jobs.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Also remember that this demo was not exclusively about the rise in fees, which I don't really see as too big a problems as has been discussed already, but the cuts in spending in higher education. The cuts will have a hugely negative impact on so many unis0
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I'd be interested to see what the new fees come to on different courses.
Do you think they'll put the price up on the over-subscribed, mickey mouse subjects and keep the prices on the "proper" subjects relatively low to try and fill them, because I think that could be quite a good thing. It's been said before that we need to be encouraging more people to do the science and engineering degrees, this could be one way to accomplish that.
As for plssing and moaning about how much debt you're in when your degree finishes. Seems to me like the ones who come out the other end with REALLY big debts are teh ones who've spent the last 3-5 years using loans to live a pretty decent lifestyle rather than working to pay for it. That's not aimed at anyone in particular here by the way, just an observation.
My sister just finished her degree at Leeds and has come out with debt of....fuckall. She lived at home while studying, saved money while she was working during her a-levels and continued to work throughout her degree. So it IS possible to do it.0 -
Happy Harry wrote:Did anybody actually read what I said before criticising? Seems like all the critical posts are actually in agreement with my statement.
If you don't want to go to Uni you choose to do something else. (What yeehaa did)
If you do want to go to Uni you choose to try (to achieve the grades).
If you have an offer from a Uni you can actually choose to go or not to go.
If you don't have an offer then you can't say you've chosen not to go because you haven't got a choice. You haven't had an offer so you can't choose to go - you can only choose to not go. Is that a choice?
And this is not about educational ability, it's a debate about the meaning of the word choice, which is irrelevant but I feel I have to defend myself. I'll readily admit that I have virtually no academic qualifications whatsoever and Uni was definitely not a choice for me. I'm working class, me. And will be for a few years yet to pay for the boy's bloody university education ...
it's the first time i've read this thread and i have to agree with yeehaa, you're talking crap!!!!
oh, and i didn't go to university either, but earn as much as all my mates who did....... apart from my mate who's a tax lawyer, she's just loaded
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Happy Harry wrote:Did anybody actually read what I said before criticising? Seems like all the critical posts are actually in agreement with my statement.
If you don't want to go to Uni you choose to do something else. (What yeehaa did)
If you do want to go to Uni you choose to try (to achieve the grades).
If you have an offer from a Uni you can actually choose to go or not to go.
If you don't have an offer then you can't say you've chosen not to go because you haven't got a choice. You haven't had an offer so you can't choose to go - you can only choose to not go. Is that a choice?
And this is not about educational ability, it's a debate about the meaning of the word choice, which is irrelevant but I feel I have to defend myself. I'll readily admit that I have virtually no academic qualifications whatsoever and Uni was definitely not a choice for me. I'm working class, me. And will be for a few years yet to pay for the boy's bloody university education ...
You may not have had an offer, but you made the choice not to apply, thus resulting in your inability to make a choice as to whether to accept. If you choose not to apply for any given reason, there was a choice made before the application process of not to make any attempts at a University session.
Your choices could be 1 month before applications are due, or when your 11 and you decide you wish to pursue a vocational track of life, learning specific skills relating to your interests be it either through learning at home, or on the job.
At the end of the day, you have made a choice sometime of not to go, so yes it is a choice.0 -
Also remember that this demo was not exclusively about the rise in fees, which I don't really see as too big a problems as has been discussed already, but the cuts in spending in higher education. The cuts will have a hugely negative impact on so many unis
Wake up and smell the coffee.......
We are in a bankrupt country. There are cuts being made all over the place to vital services like the police, education, defence, the list goes on.
Education must accept that there will be cuts there to. Mr Blair spent years encouragiung people to go to university, and now we cannot fund it. If the cuts mean less people going and more people getting jobs and avoiding debt then so be it.
Universities are going concerns like everything else. If they do not offer quality and courses that lead to good jobs then why bother having them.
And on the choice thing, how many teenagers actually make the choice? How many of them are driven by what friends are doing, by what parents want them to do, and what the social drive is at the time..............................................0 -
I know a fair few people that have got on to any mickey mouse course that would except them so they had 'something to do' while they decided what they actually wanted to do. They got their student grants decided after 3 months they were bored and dropped out. I'm not saying that this goes across the board but maybe a rise in fees will put these numpties off doing that and wasting time and money.gochel chan ddynion i mewn blew beisiau achos hwy cadernid bod eirth0
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ol'gregg, what the hell is your sig meant to say 0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:ol'gregg, what the hell is your sig meant to say It's meant to say ' beware of men in fur coats cos they might be bears' my welsh is a little rusty. gochel chan ddynion i mewn blew beisiau achos hwy cadernid bod eirth0
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That's so incorrect it's just AWESOME!
I think it should stay like that 0
