Tuition fees march

RupertCommunicator

As a graduate I am bewildered at the vast amount of pointless degrees and chod universities out there. Degrees are now hugely devalued as a result since any Tom Dick or Harry can get on a course.

Also, if I owned a company and two potential employees turned up for an interview, I would take a driven, smart and willing non-grad over a lesser graduate any day!

Degrees don't get you jobs, they just get you to the interview table for certain careers.

We need to massively thin out the further education in this country and only create graduates that will benefit the economy rather than give a bunch of lazy arseholes the opportunity to smoke copious amounts of weed for three years whilst attending two hours a week of lectures on popular music.

CraigXXL

I agree with your comments on hiring of staff. We avoid graduates as they tend to want big wages with little to no experience just theory. Instead we take 17-18 year olds from a local college requiring work placements for their AAT and similar to Waylander stated we progress them through their studying and onto ACCA or ACA. The end result is we end up with staff earning a good salary with knowledge based on experience that run rings around graduates with accountancy degrees.

Anonymous

i am glad we have universities, im glad that the doctor who one day has to stick his head up my ar5e for a look at my pork meat consumption induced swollen and dying prostate will have been to university and i think it is important that the education system we have provides world class scientists and doctors and nurses.

i dont know why people have to go to uni to learn about music or art or anything that s opinion based as from what i can gather, you cant really teach someone a genuine opinion.

so, engineers, doctors of medicine, nurses and healthcare types and scientists should have free university tuition, if they drop out, they should pay back what they have cost, if they succeed, they should be gifted with the learning for free.

everyone else, and i mean everyone from the sick, lame and the lazy should get a fucking job. even the most poorly and ill people can stick letters in envelopes for someone or push a brush around the street for a bit.

RupertCommunicator

Entirely agree.

Briggo

Dammit I might have to withdraw my application too this extremely useful course that will end world poverty

But then I'll just apply for this one instead as it's far more useful and defo worth the £9k a year.

Anonymous

Briggo wrote:

Dammit I might have to withdraw my application too this extremely useful course that will end world poverty

But then I'll just apply for this one instead as it's far more useful.

ALL of the people on that course are taking the utter p1ss and should pay twice as much as someone on a proper degree course, that way the people who want to learn whatever made up sh1t that goes along with a hippy course like that will be weeded out from the useless cuntss who wouldnt know a days work if it pissed inside them , then stitched that pi55 filled orifice closed then threw them into a burning house full of illegal immigrants.

cooldad

I find I agree with Sheep twice in one thread, a scary and horrible thought. Might have to have my head examined by one of those doctors, hopefully not one that's been playing with his ar5e.

submityournentries

im doing a "proper" course. a BA in product design, so basically making anything and everything we want to buy. if the fee hike actually comes into play before i leave uni, and i cant afford to go to uni, and therefore have to leave, wheres the fairness in that?
i agree that some courses are doss', but when its a useful course, surely its logical that it should be inclusive to anyone, not just those who are wealthy enough?

Anonymous

cooldad wrote:

I find I agree with Sheep twice in one thread, a scary and horrible thought. Might have to have my head examined by one of those doctors, hopefully not one that's been playing with his ar5e.

it is a slow and very downward spiral once you start to agree with my thoughts.

whyamihere

submityournentries wrote:

im doing a "proper" course. a BA in product design, so basically making anything and everything we want to buy. if the fee hike actually comes into play before i leave uni, and i cant afford to go to uni, and therefore have to leave, wheres the fairness in that?
i agree that some courses are doss', but when its a useful course, surely its logical that it should be inclusive to anyone, not just those who are wealthy enough?

1. It won't affect anyone currently on a course.
2. The first people to be affected will be those starting their course in 2012.
3. Yes, the fees are going to rise, but the student loan will also rise to cover it. You'll have more debt afterwards, but that just means that you might not pay it all off before it expires in 30 years (tragedy).

Anonymous

submityournentries wrote:

im doing a "proper" course. a BA in product design, so basically making anything and everything we want to buy. if the fee hike actually comes into play before i leave uni, and i cant afford to go to uni, and therefore have to leave, wheres the fairness in that?
i agree that some courses are doss', but when its a useful course, surely its logical that it should be inclusive to anyone, not just those who are wealthy enough?

sounds like you arent training to be an engineer, doctor, nurse or scientist so the fairness is that you should get a proper job and i shouldnt have to pay for you to dickarse around at uni.

Briggo

whyamihere wrote:

show previous quotes

submityournentries wrote:

im doing a "proper" course. a BA in product design, so basically making anything and everything we want to buy. if the fee hike actually comes into play before i leave uni, and i cant afford to go to uni, and therefore have to leave, wheres the fairness in that?
i agree that some courses are doss', but when its a useful course, surely its logical that it should be inclusive to anyone, not just those who are wealthy enough?

1. It won't affect anyone currently on a course.
2. The first people to be affected will be those starting their course in 2012.
3. Yes, the fees are going to rise, but the student loan will also rise to cover it. You'll have more debt afterwards, but that just means that you might not pay it all off before it expires in 30 years (tragedy).

Its a shame all the idiots on the streets protesting arn't clever enough to realise this, I did find it funny how they're on TV saying "I cant go to Uni, I can't afford it".

Afford what? You dont pay anything its a loan you pay off at ridiculously low rates after you earn a certain amount, or are you worried that your joke of a course you are doing is actually never going to get you the high earner job that Uni is supposed to lead too and you're realising now that you cant use Uni as an excuse to piss about for 3 years?

Boo hoo to you.

slowslowslow

As a teacher can quite happily agree that there are far too many micky mouse degrees and far too many people taking them. Tony Blair had his ridiculous idea that 50% of the country should go to university and encouraged those who should not be going but getting a job with better prospects. He was basically just trying to keep people off the unemployment figures.

Polytechnics should never have gone. A two teir system with a different focus for each one, polys being more vocationally based was much better.

the real focus should be on re-establishing the impotant degrees. Physics has been slowly declining in uptake for years, and our skilled scientists are going to the far East in numbers because there is more incentive to work there. we will not keep up with other countries if this carries on.

Oh, and I wasted most of my money at uni on beer as well. Had I been a bit more sensible I would have come out with no debt.

If we had a decent streamlined system there would be fewer graduates, they would be high earners and the extra tax they pay would be able to go back into funding.

Happy Harry

My stepson's just started at Uni doing a decent science subject. It was my first involvement in higher education and I took a close interest in his application. He worked incredibly hard through sixth form struggling with some very average teachers in an average comprehensive. I learnt a lot from him about the process of getting into Uni and this is what I think.

It's extremely competitive and you won't get on a decent course unless you have excellent grades so unless you've achieved an offer you can't say you've chosen not to go to Uni. You can only say you've chosen not to try.

Tuition fee and maintenance loans go a long way to paying for a degree but you only have to pay it back if the degree brings you a well-paid job. If you drop out or decide to raise a family or otherwise not earn much your debt will be wiped out. So in general terms only those graduates who use their degree to earn a higher income throughout their working life will have to pay for it but at preferential rates. It's actually a risk-free investment in yourself.

So choose not to go to Uni, by all means, but 'graduating with debt' is not a valid reason. You only pay it back if you can afford it.

submityournentries

when i finish uni, because i am doing a five year Ma, with a sandwich year i already get £50000 of debt, with the raised fees, it would be more like £80000.

and i wasnt aware that i would be paying the higher fees, i was told by a couple of people that in my final year (2012) i would be subject to the same fees as everyone else

Anonymous

how will you have accumulated 50000 quids worth of debt? do tuition fees coat 10000 quid a year and whats a sandwich year?

cooldad

submityournentries wrote:

when i finish uni, because i am doing a five year Ma, with a sandwich year i already get £50000 of debt, with the raised fees, it would be more like £80000.

and i wasnt aware that i would be paying the higher fees, i was told by a couple of people that in my final year (2012) i would be subject to the same fees as everyone else

I assume your MA is not in English? Or are you doing someone's (very young) mother?

whyamihere

submityournentries wrote:

when i finish uni, because i am doing a five year Ma, with a sandwich year i already get £50000 of debt, with the raised fees, it would be more like £80000.

What's your point? It's not like credit card debt. Repayments are taken automatically at the same time as tax/NI, and it's quite a small percentage, assuming you earn over the threshold anyway. Any money you still owe 30 years after you finish is wiped. It's not a good argument.

slowslowslow

Its not a risk free investment in yourself. your son should be fine with science, and I wish him well in his studies.
However many students do not have the same level of interest that you have shown, many people are doing pointless degrees and getting into debt beyond student loans and grants. They come out with debt on top, and have often wasted years that could have been spent getting valuable experience and training.

And should the poor tax payer really fund those people who drop out or get a low paid job? I would rather my taxes went on the NHS or the police than funding someone who could have earn't exactly the same money without the university.

the whole point of a degree should be that you go on to earn a higher income because you have a higher level of training.

Anonymous

Happy Harry wrote:

so unless you've achieved an offer you can't say you've chosen not to go to Uni. You can only say you've chosen not to try.

Total bullcrap. There are people (and i include myself in this) who had no interest in going to study a mostly theoretical course for years, so went to do an engineering apprenticeship instead.
I didn't choose to not try and get into uni, it didn't interest me in the least, I chose something else.

cooldad

sheepsteeth wrote:

how will you have accumulated 50000 quids worth of debt? do tuition fees coat 10000 quid a year and whats a sandwich year?

5 year degree @ £3,000 per year approx, I think he's intending to fail each year roughly 3 times.
Isn't a 'sandwich' year a graduate's first job at Subway before they go on the dole?

Gazlar

Simple statement of fact is, if I want to do something, I have to pay what it costs to do it, and if it costs a lot, then I have to consider whether it's worth me paying for. Things cost money, nobody is barred from going to uni based on class, it's not a two tier system, like it's been said loans are there, risk to reward adjusted loans, but why should you be subsidised to go to uni to do a degree you may or may not use? You pay for it, get your degree and if less people have less degrees you may just find that it's held with some esteem in society again and not looked at as a piece of paper people think anyone can get.

cooldad

Now I know I'm losing it, agreeing with both Sheeps and Yeehaa in one thread.
Time for a padded cell, soothing music and lots of lithium.

slowslowslow

when i finish uni, because i am doing a five year Ma, with a sandwich year i already get £50000 of debt, with the raised fees, it would be more like £80000.

and i wasnt aware that i would be paying the higher fees, i was told by a couple of people that in my final year (2012) i would be subject to the same fees as everyone else


Why do a five year MA then? Do the normal three year degree and leave the Masters. most teachers who qualify now are expected to do there masters while they work as well.

not sure where you get the £50,000 of debt from.

whyamihere

sheepsteeth wrote:

how will you have accumulated 50000 quids worth of debt? do tuition fees coat 10000 quid a year and whats a sandwich year?

At the end of my 4 years (foundation year + 3 year physics BSc), I'll be roughly £28000 in debt. This is split roughly in half between tuition fees and maintenance loan. A sandwich year is one where you have a job in your chosen industry for a year, where you're paid. A masters does cost more, as fees aren't restricted, but it's not an extra £22000.

Anonymous

whyamihere wrote:

A sandwich year is one where you have a job in your chosen industry for a year, where you're paid. A masters does cost more, as fees aren't restricted, but it's not an extra £22000.

this is what i figured, it sounds like someone doing a niff naff and trivia degree pissing and whining about how expensive the cost of living whilst at uni is. this is something we all have to pay for and i dont see why those at uni should be exempt. we all pay for the roof over our heads and the food in our well fed bellies.

i also figured the sandwich year would be a year off working whilst being paid, that sounds like an ideal time to be paying of some of this debt that he has chosen to put himself in the way of.

BlackSpur

whyamihere wrote:

[. A masters does cost more, as fees aren't restricted, but it's not an extra £22000.

It does? Damnn i had no idea

MountainMonster

To be honest, GB is moving too much towards America in the whole way things are dealt with in all general aspects of the government.

I havn't read past the 1st page of this, mainly due to beer and not wanting to read 3 pages at once because I just got back from University (which i'm paying 3,500 per semester for since i'm American) but everything is moving too much towards the American way of if you have cash you'll do well, if not you fooked kind tof thing.

I heard about the fee hikes from a friend in England earlier today, and I find it stupid. Cut the social services for people who are leeches and only living off benefits because their lazy. Or cut the free tuition for students who are doing media or something (not a real degree in my opinion) only because they want something to do, but don't know what.

Leave the people who have interest in a practical course and actually have career goals with free tuition, but everyone who is going just for the hell of it, they have to pay.

slowslowslow

So if I have got this right, for £80,000 we get someone with an MA in product design.

for £28,000 we get a Physicist.

Something not quite there.

A masters in teaching is around £3000 I think.

(I did a micky mouse degree, but in the days when everyone who went got a decent job because there were so few graduates.)

supersonic

if you have cash you'll do well, if not you fooked kind tof thing

But is that the case? You get a loan that you don't have to pay back until you are earning a set amount.