Tuition fees march

supersonic

Just watching it on News 24. Ah the future of Britain...

Anonymous

Whilst the tuition fees do seem very high, I don't understand what the current reasoning behind expecting everyone to go to university is. It surely devalues the purpose of a degree when every tom dick and harry have one.

supersonic

I think the new influx of weird degrees and non descript universities have devalued them too. And lets be honest, for many uni is a lifestyle choice and little to do with the degree.

The students may be in debt, but it is not like they have to pay it back straight away - they have to earn 21k, and pay it off slowly. My view is if the degree has helped you to be a high earner then you are in a position to pay back that degree.

Anonymous

supersonic wrote:

My view is if the degree has helped you to be a high earner then you are in a position to pay back that degree.

Too bloody right.
And, frankly, if you're complaining about having a massive student loan to pay off, and you're only earning minimum wage even with a degree, then your degree was a waste of time.
Maybe folk should consider what they're actually intending to do with their lives before making their "lifestyle" choice.

supersonic

I'd better add that the peaceful marches I have nothing against - but the berks setting things on fire, smashing windows and as I have just seen, assaulting police medics is bang out of order. People will have little sympathy and it detracts from those who have protested peacefully.

.blitz

Bloody students

In my day, we had to go to a Polytechnic and go to work during the week, although in all fairness BAs were available from a dispenser in the Engineering Faculty.

And there were just two unis - Oxbridge - and the rest were all just fields. In fact I remember when blah blah blah yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

supersonic

I bet they have been in the bloody pub all day too. It's like mass hysteria - they should study psychology.

BlackSpur

At the end of the day they're saying we now have to pay up several times more what those before us have had to pay - noone is going to be happy at that. I have no idea if the fee changes will affect me (I'm going to uni next year) but I've been able to pick my university choices based solely on which universities I like - price does not come into it. I really don't like the idea that i might have been put off certain universities due to a difference in fee costs.

Anonymous

Wait, there's no difference in fee costs now? I thought there always had been.
If that's the case, then surely the bottom-feeding unis are a bit of a rip off, if you're paying the same amount, but have nowhere near the same facilities.

El Capitano

I wud just like to say, that I neva went to Unervarcity.

supersonic

But times do change, and the amount of students going to uni nowadays means extra money is needed to pay for it. As above, I think this comes from the huge amount of degrees available. A degree does not seem what it was - unless from a large uni with a traditional degree. Should the Welsh College of Horticulture degree in Equestrian Psychology cost the same as a Maths degree from Cambridge?

BlackSpur

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Wait, there's no difference in fee costs now? I thought there always had been.
If that's the case, then surely the bottom-feeding unis are a bit of a rip off, if you're paying the same amount, but have nowhere near the same facilities.

No there is a flat cap (I think it's £3,290 at the moment) and pretty much all Universities charge this rate for UK students. A degree from Cambridge costs the same as from Lincoln.

BlackSpur

supersonic wrote:

But times do change, and the amount of students going to uni nowadays means extra money is needed to pay for it. As above, I think this comes from the huge amount of degrees available. A degree does not seem what it was - unless from a large uni with a traditional degree. Should the Welsh College of Horticulture degree in Equestrian Psychology cost the same as a Maths degree from Cambridge?

Should people have to pay more because they want to do a degree that has some use rather than those just picking any old course just so that they can go to uni?

bluechair84

supersonic wrote:

I bet they have been in the bloody pub all day too. It's like mass hysteria - they should study psychology.

Just heard that beer cans have been chucked off the roof of Milbank at police - less a sit in but a lock-in maybe?
I think if this country is going to remain at the forefront of science and technology we need people going beyond degree standard in their education, MA, PHD - there could be several years of education and paper writing before any money is really earnt. I think it takes 12 years for instance to fully qualify as an architect. The prospect of being in debt with the prospect of a medium wage for a large part of your working life is quite duanting. We need cheap education with greater breadth of workplaces for graduates - more industry. And fewer fairy courses with no vocational prospects like English... which is what I did... Can you guess my job?

Gazlar

The problem is though if thats what it costs to put on a place on a course, thats what it costs. Perhaps the hike in fee's will focus people a bit more as to their need to go to university and whether they are doing it because they have a focussed career path, or whether its because they dont know what to do/dont want to get a job etc etc.

One of the problems I've found, both through my experiences of school/college and Mrs G's and friends of ours experience of the education system is that at every stage now, people are pushed to go to uni, the bright kids are pushed to go to uni, the not so bright kids have it dangled as a carrot for something to aim for, as its the way to get a good job.......BULLSH1T!!

Yes you can get a great job from a degree, with the right drive, the right course and the right luck as well to an extent, but what is wrong with people being encouraged more to get a trade perhaps, or do more vocational training, something that may better suit their way of learning, more hands on than academic? The people I know from my school that are earning the most money are mainly trades people, whereas many uni graduates I know are in normal run of the mill jobs or low paid work to do with their degree

I'm not saying Uni is wrong, but maybe a thought about how much it costs to go will make people thin carefully about their options and what is the right path for them

MacAndCheese

To be honest I think it will be good for people to think a bit harder before going to uni, and really try and find out the future earning potential of their chosen degree. I wish I had. Having said that, I think it would very bad indeed if we ended up with an elitist education system with only the very well off or those on scholarship could do the best degrees.

El Capitano

Gazlar wrote:

The problem is though if thats what it costs to put on a place on a course, thats what it costs. Perhaps the hike in fee's will focus people a bit more as to their need to go to university and whether they are doing it because they have a focussed career path, or whether its because they dont know what to do/dont want to get a job etc etc.

One of the problems I've found, both through my experiences of school/college and Mrs G's and friends of ours experience of the education system is that at every stage now, people are pushed to go to uni, the bright kids are pushed to go to uni, the not so bright kids have it dangled as a carrot for something to aim for, as its the way to get a good job.......BULLSH1T!!

Yes you can get a great job from a degree, with the right drive, the right course and the right luck as well to an extent, but what is wrong with people being encouraged more to get a trade perhaps, or do more vocational training, something that may better suit their way of learning, more hands on than academic? The people I know from my school that are earning the most money are mainly trades people, whereas many uni graduates I know are in normal run of the mill jobs or low paid work to do with their degree

I'm not saying Uni is wrong, but maybe a thought about how much it costs to go will make people thin carefully about their options and what is the right path for them

+ Potato. Very well put.

whyamihere

supersonic wrote:

But times do change, and the amount of students going to uni nowadays means extra money is needed to pay for it. As above, I think this comes from the huge amount of degrees available. A degree does not seem what it was - unless from a large uni with a traditional degree. Should the Welsh College of Horticulture degree in Equestrian Psychology cost the same as a Maths degree from Cambridge?

It could easily be that the maths degree from Cambridge ends up cheaper. Funding for maths and science courses isn't being cut. Funding for everything else is.

Boy Lard

I went to University, borrowed lots of money, pissed it all up against the wall and never actually got a degree. It's a shame really. Still, would probably now be working in London, doing a job I hate and never being able to get out on the really expensive bike that I can now afford.

I'm torn on the whole tuition fees issue. I think it could lead to a class divide, especially to the top end Universities (like it wasn't bad enough anyway), but on the other hand, if you're degree is going to allow you to earn considerably more money, then why shouldn't you be expected to pay for it?

I think I'd rather see the fees staying free, but a condition set that you had to remain working in this country. If you wish to work abroad after becoming qualified, then you had to repay your fees. I hate the thought of the best of British (and when I say that I mean English, obviously ) talent being trained for free and then buggering off abroad.

Anonymous

El Capitano wrote:

I wud just like to say, that I neva went to Unervarcity.

Me neither. I don't like the city anyway. Where is unervacity, is it near Liverpool?

BlackSpur wrote:

Should people have to pay more because they want to do a degree that has some use rather than those just picking any old course just so that they can go to uni?

I'm pretty sure that used to be how it worked, yes.
(I know next to nothing about what uni is best for a given thing, so humour me here...)
Bangor university, for example, is meant to have some of the best resources for the study of marine biology in the world. People wanting to study that subject there, used to have to pay more than, I dunno, the university of Barnstaple (if there even is one, it's just an example).
At least that's the impression I got.

BlackSpur

bluechair84 wrote:

show previous quotes

supersonic wrote:

I bet they have been in the bloody pub all day too. It's like mass hysteria - they should study psychology.

I think if this country is going to remain at the forefront of science and technology we need people going beyond degree standard in their education, MA, PHD - there could be several years of education and paper writing before any money is really earnt. I think it takes 12 years for instance to fully qualify as an architect. The prospect of being in debt with the prospect of a medium wage for a large part of your working life is quite duanting. We need cheap education with greater breadth of workplaces for graduates - more industry. And fewer fairy courses with no vocational prospects like English... which is what I did... Can you guess my job?

I think you're right, but the removal of the cap could have the opposite effect from what I've heard. Science and engineering degrees could become more expensive than arts degrees which is likely to discourage people from taking science/technology degrees.

Anonymous

bluechair84 wrote:

I think it takes 12 years for instance to fully qualify as an architect. The prospect of being in debt with the prospect of a medium wage for a large part of your working life is quite duanting.

One of my very best friends from childhood, is now a successful architect.
He worked at various placements whilst studying, and earned his way, leaving him with minimal loans to pay off, and never having to live in squalor.

Boy Lard

bluechair84 wrote:

And fewer fairy courses with no vocational prospects like English... which is what I did... Can you guess my job?

Do you work in McDonalds?

Also, tuition fees are standardised atm I believe, but they are trying to change it so that Universities can charge what they like. It might cost the same at the moment to do a Maths degree at Cambridge, or a degree in Klingon in Barnsley, but it costs Cambridge a damn site more to provide the level of teaching and support that they do.

I worry that this would definitely cause a class divide.

From a different view point, I think if Universities had to provide a guaranteed job upon successful graduation we would see far fewer comedy degrees and more specific training in what was required. This would lend greater value to the degree and therefore I would see no problem with repaying the fees. The biggest problem at the moment is that a degree does not seem to provide a much improved chance of getting a job.

ol\'gregg

The university in Cardiff use our theatre alot for lectures and I spoke to one of the lecturers and he was saying that they are losing staff but having more students applying for courses and are mainly relying on foreign students as they pay between 10 - 15k in fees compared to 3k for uk students. So I think that a rise is a good thing if it means courses can be staffed and run properly, then maybe that will weed out ones that are going to uni as a 'lifestyle' choice or the ones that take the student loan stay for a few months then drop out and have a student loan for the priviledge.

Anonymous

Boy Lard wrote:

The biggest problem at the moment is that a degree does not seem to provide a much improved chance of getting a job.

But surely that boils down to the fact that everyone is encouraged to go to uni these days? There's just no differentiation any more between graduates, and non-graduates, because the non-grads are so rare.

supersonic

BlackSpur wrote:

show previous quotes

supersonic wrote:

But times do change, and the amount of students going to uni nowadays means extra money is needed to pay for it. As above, I think this comes from the huge amount of degrees available. A degree does not seem what it was - unless from a large uni with a traditional degree. Should the Welsh College of Horticulture degree in Equestrian Psychology cost the same as a Maths degree from Cambridge?

Should people have to pay more because they want to do a degree that has some use rather than those just picking any old course just so that they can go to uni?

Well that's the other side of the argument. People are demonstrating across the board it seems.

Personally I would revise the structure and call some of these 'lesser' degrees something else, and have the traditional courses and derivatives only called degrees. Even then that leaves the location as a differentiator.

I think what is worrying people is that they are going to do a lesser degree, only just hit the threshold for paying it back [probably with a job totally unrelated to their degree] and then feel hard done to. But if you are doing that degree just so you can go on the piss and enjoy the lifestyle, tough. And for a significant amount of people, this is what they go to uni for.

Anonymous

It's also funny how many ex students I know who moaned endlessly about being skint, when they would spend vast amounts of money on booze and drugs, FAR more than I could afford, even though I was working.

Thewaylander

True I blame careers advisers at school for giving awful advice.

From my point of veiw at the age of 15 doing my GCSE when i say i want to go into accountancy the Carrees ladies says ok accountancy degree's..

But the true answer is at 16 go do your aat while working 2 years later do your ACCA/CIMA which ever you prefer about 2 years and come 20 your full qualified and on 27-28k and going up fast.
If you go degree route you get your a'levels, study your degree hoping it contains the short AAT courses to skip the first year of your proffesional qualifications and then do ACCE/CIMA ending up at 25 just qualified.

Which is the route to take? But kids don't know this, the information isnt given and they expect people to go to uni because it's what you do.

The whole Uni system is broken now, we use it to train people when actually they should be getting professional qualification while working and this is causing issues with too many students in uni that the state can not support.

Boy Lard

I wish I'd had more respect for where I was and what I was doing when i was at Uni.

Educating the masses is all well and good, but we want to educate the cleverest people to the highest degree (no pun intended). Then the degrees will be worth more again. If the state and not the individual Universities had control over admissions maybe this could be achieved.

Not everyone can be a nuclear physicist, a doctor or chat show host (ran out of ideas). Where are the vocational degrees which teach train drivers, lab techs, plumbers and history teachers?

WisePranker

Shouldn't they all be in Uni/College/School rather than playing at protesting for the day???

Thewaylander

degree's were never hugely Vocational though.

Historically we used to get b-techs and the rest, For instance in accountancy a Degree means nothing, Even an accountancy one. Its professional standards and examinations... Commons sense will start to kick in with Education soon I'm Sure