Students
Comments
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W1 wrote:notsoblue wrote:W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I think they have massively furthered their cause by smashing in a few windows. For a start we are all talking about tuition fees now.
People are too prudish - it is good to smash things up occasionaly, keeps the establishment thinking.
Wrong. They've completely undermined their cause and lost any public sympathy they may have had.
I wonder how many of the protesters actually understood the proposals (as many on here seemed to do)....
I think its important to define who you mean when you say "They've completely undermined their cause". From what I understand the people who organised the protest weren't the same that caused the criminal damage.
And that's the problem. No-one can differentiate between those with a legitimate concern tand those who just wanted an excuse to be a yob. They are now all rolled into "students".
Come on, they were hardly popular before - lazy/work shy blah blah. I actually think they have done something quite constructive for a change.0 -
JonGinge wrote:
indeed. Did fizzix and even with 24+hrs lectures and tutorials we had Wed afternoons off...TailWindHome wrote:rjsterry wrote:TailWindHome wrote:I assume English universities have the same tradition as here in NI of a Wednesday half day.
Maybe the could do what I did and get a part time job, you know instead of rioting.
Lazy Feckers
You assume incorrectly, at least from my experience.
I think you've been had
Google Fu suggests Wednesday afternoon is set aside for sport.
The 'Sitting on Their Feckless Ar5es watching Loose Women' team is a banker for 2012
Did arkyteckcher, so if you didn't want to get crucified in your next crit, most time not spent in lectures was spent in the studio in front of a drawing board. Now that you mention it, I do vaguely remember Wednesday pm being notionally set aside for sports, but few if any took this opportunity.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:ketsbaia wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:ketsbaia wrote:W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I think they have massively furthered their cause by smashing in a few windows. For a start we are all talking about tuition fees now.
People are too prudish - it is good to smash things up occasionaly, keeps the establishment thinking.
Wrong. They've completely undermined their cause and lost any public sympathy they may have had.
I wonder how many of the protesters actually understood the proposals (as many on here seemed to do)....
Ha. Wondered how long it would be. Busy are we today?
Tell me, how much sympathy did you have with them before yesterday? Let me guess.
I have way more respect for students now than I did before as I direct consequence of yesterday's actions.
Seriously? Or are you just trying to make a point?
If I went and smashed up your car because I'm angry about your support for these yobs, would you respect me?
Definitely. It'd show you cared about something so passionately you were prepared to risk the wrath of the law. I'd take my hat off to you as I contacted the insurance company.
I don't believe you for a second.
*Goes out to buy sledgehammer.
Bring it.
*could do with the insurance money* 0 -
ketsbaia wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:ketsbaia wrote:W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I think they have massively furthered their cause by smashing in a few windows. For a start we are all talking about tuition fees now.
People are too prudish - it is good to smash things up occasionaly, keeps the establishment thinking.
Wrong. They've completely undermined their cause and lost any public sympathy they may have had.
I wonder how many of the protesters actually understood the proposals (as many on here seemed to do)....
Ha. Wondered how long it would be. Busy are we today?
Tell me, how much sympathy did you have with them before yesterday? Let me guess.
I have way more respect for students now than I did before as I direct consequence of yesterday's actions.
Seriously? Or are you just trying to make a point?
If I went and smashed up your car because I'm angry about your support for these yobs, would you respect me?
Definitely. It'd show you cared about something so passionately you were prepared to risk the wrath of the law. I'd take my hat off to you as I contacted the insurance company.
But that is the problem with this, it's okay you having these high principles and the ability to accept physical demonstrations of objection when all you have to do is make a phone call and somebody else pays for the damage, how would you feel if LiT wrecked your car by smashing your windows and pouring brake fluid on tyhe paint-work the the insurance company turned round and said that your poliocy did not cover this damage. you the have to pay for it out of your own pocket.
Would you be so agreeable to LiT's passion for the dispute than0 -
W1 wrote:ketsbaia wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:ketsbaia wrote:W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I think they have massively furthered their cause by smashing in a few windows. For a start we are all talking about tuition fees now.
People are too prudish - it is good to smash things up occasionaly, keeps the establishment thinking.
Wrong. They've completely undermined their cause and lost any public sympathy they may have had.
I wonder how many of the protesters actually understood the proposals (as many on here seemed to do)....
Ha. Wondered how long it would be. Busy are we today?
Tell me, how much sympathy did you have with them before yesterday? Let me guess.
I have way more respect for students now than I did before as I direct consequence of yesterday's actions.
Seriously? Or are you just trying to make a point?
If I went and smashed up your car because I'm angry about your support for these yobs, would you respect me?
Definitely. It'd show you cared about something so passionately you were prepared to risk the wrath of the law. I'd take my hat off to you as I contacted the insurance company.
Cared passionately? Or just wanted to behave like a yob.
If you think that to passionately care about something you need to be violent and destructive then I pity you.
You just don't understand, do you?
If she just wanted to behave like a yob, she'd smash up anyone's car.
It'd be mine she was smashing up, therefore, there would be a point.
Do keep up. Page 28 of today's Daily Mail...0 -
What did Ketsbia do to LiT to warrant a car bashing?0
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Sewinman wrote:What did Ketsbia do to LiT to warrant a car bashing?
He didn't do anything to me directly, keep up! I'm angry about his support for the yobbos.0 -
ketsbaia wrote:
You just don't understand, do you?
If she just wanted to behave like a yob, she'd smash up anyone's car.
It'd be mine she was smashing up, therefore, there would be a point.
Do keep up. Page 28 of today's Daily Mail...
I despair that there are people like you around.
Seriously, grow up.0 -
Firstly it is blinkered to label all the protestors, students and lecturers. Clearly and has been reported there were those there who weren’t students had no real interest in the student plight.
Yes some of the trouble makers were ‘students’ others were trouble makers, social activists and people generally itching for a fight.
More to come....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.- 2023 Vielo V+1
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W1 wrote:notsoblue wrote:I think its important to define who you mean when you say "They've completely undermined their cause". From what I understand the people who organised the protest weren't the same that caused the criminal damage.
And that's the problem. No-one can differentiate between those with a legitimate concern tand those who just wanted an excuse to be a yob. They are now all rolled into "students".
I get the impression that its only those who don't sympathise with the students that are failing to differentiate.0 -
Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
+ several to all of that.0 -
DCowling wrote:ketsbaia wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:ketsbaia wrote:W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I think they have massively furthered their cause by smashing in a few windows. For a start we are all talking about tuition fees now.
People are too prudish - it is good to smash things up occasionaly, keeps the establishment thinking.
Wrong. They've completely undermined their cause and lost any public sympathy they may have had.
I wonder how many of the protesters actually understood the proposals (as many on here seemed to do)....
Ha. Wondered how long it would be. Busy are we today?
Tell me, how much sympathy did you have with them before yesterday? Let me guess.
I have way more respect for students now than I did before as I direct consequence of yesterday's actions.
Seriously? Or are you just trying to make a point?
If I went and smashed up your car because I'm angry about your support for these yobs, would you respect me?
Definitely. It'd show you cared about something so passionately you were prepared to risk the wrath of the law. I'd take my hat off to you as I contacted the insurance company.
But that is the problem with this, it's okay you having these high principles and the ability to accept physical demonstrations of objection when all you have to do is make a phone call and somebody else pays for the damage, how would you feel if LiT wrecked your car by smashing your windows and pouring brake fluid on tyhe paint-work the the insurance company turned round and said that your poliocy did not cover this damage. you the have to pay for it out of your own pocket.
Would you be so agreeable to LiT's passion for the dispute than
It's funny you should bring up that hypothesis.
Allow me to enlarge it for a moment.
Imagine you're the boss of a multinational bank and you just royally fecked up, losing your bank billions and threatening the very stability of not only your host country's economy, but the very fabric of capitalism itself. But then all you had to do was pick up the phone, convince the politicians that they should get their populations to foot the bill and then everything will be OK.
How would they feel if they had to foot the bill themselves and not receive million pound bonuses for their failure? Would they be so agreeable to fecking up royally in future?
LiT is welcome to come round and sledgehammer my car any time. If she believes in it so much.0 -
W1 wrote:ketsbaia wrote:
You just don't understand, do you?
If she just wanted to behave like a yob, she'd smash up anyone's car.
It'd be mine she was smashing up, therefore, there would be a point.
Do keep up. Page 28 of today's Daily Mail...
I despair that there are people like you around.
Seriously, grow up.
Likewise.
Delighted I'm sure.0 -
I wouldn't sledgehammer your car. Mostly because I think it would be idiotic and a stupid way to try and make a point.
If you do keep up this nonsense I may put a kilo of sugar in your fuel tank, though.0 -
Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
You are not going to get on Sky News with an intelligent and coherent argument.0 -
Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
See my earlier point about making the exams harder again.
And I'll tell you what I respect about the violence. They mean it. They're not writing essays or letters to the Times that will be ignored, they're not writing to their MPs to demand action that will never happen, they're out on the streets saying No. Enough. Stop.
Brilliant.
We could learn a thing or two from the French.0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:I wouldn't sledgehammer your car. Mostly because I think it would be idiotic and a stupid way to try and make a point.
If you do keep up this nonsense I may put a kilo of sugar in your fuel tank, though.
Be so good as to point out the difference between both beautifully amazing forms of protest.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Firstly it is blinkered to label all the protestors, students and lecturers. Clearly and has been reported there were those there who weren’t students had no real interest in the student plight.
Yes some of the trouble makers were ‘students’ others were trouble makers, social activists and people generally itching for a fight.
More to come....
Quite. I thought that was one of the obvious points - that some (a minority of maybe a couple of hundreds out of an estimated 50,000) were there with the single intention to break stuff. This was exactly what happened at the G20 protests - scenes of a handful of masked people smashing things up, surrounded by photographers and camera crews, while out of shot, a relatively peaceful protest carries on.
Compare these two photos from the Guardian
You can almost imagine the 'protester' in each picture pausing to make sure all the photographers are ready before lobbing the monitor/kicking the window.[/img]1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Ketsbaia
There is difference between making a cock up regardless of size ( and we are paying for it) and actually setting out to cause maximum damage during a protest ( we will end up paying for it through our insurance premiums)
I would like to say I speak for most on here, it is not about the protest nor the reason for the protest but the rampage it turned into.
by your reasoning, if you care passionatley eough about a subject, then you have a right or even an obligation to show that passion by way of destroying other peoples possesions ( interstingly not their own). so from this can we assume that when that select band of football supporters are abroad and are on the rampage, you are sitting in your armchair watching the news, in complete awe as you revel in the passion that is being shown for their beliefs in the world of English Football0 -
Sewinman wrote:Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
You are not going to get on Sky News with an intelligent and coherent argument.
Right, so violence is the only way to raise awareness? What a total load of bollocks that is. How about Brooke Kinsella - peaceful march to raise awareness of knife crime. Pretty sure that got on the news, and now she's heading a Government backed campaign aimed at tacking knife crime... or how about the 1000's of charities that raise awareness and regularly appear on the News/Breakfast TV without resorting to vandalism.
Load. Of. Bollocks.- 2023 Vielo V+1
- 2022 Canyon Aeroad CFR
- 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
- Strava
- On the Strand
- Crown Stables
0 -
@ rjsterry: You have to wonder how many times that poor protester had to lug that monitor at the window before the cameraman got a decent shot of it.0
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Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I agree. Even poper activists, Malcolm X, King, Rosa Park and the Black Panter Party knew how to protest and knew the line between making a point and outright destruction for destructions sake.
In those days they did show no aggressive force, such as if we were to go nuts we would, we can and it would be ugly and violent. But they never did, that was the point, of which they were fighting against.
The actions yesterday were stupid. I don't think it by and large was students though.and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
Don't agree with that. People will be priced out. Getting a degree doesn't mean a top paying job. Some jobs (Teacher, Nurse, Media Editor) require a degree to get it and pay little over £25,000 in many cases. I can see more coming to the conclusion of what is the point of lumping myself with £40,000 worth of debt.
Especially as I know those who have come to that conclusion with the current costs.
Ms DDD a Lawyer came to that conclusion, her parents couldn't afford it - no one can say she wasn't intelligent enough to go.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
[/quote]Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
Firstly I don't believe that the trouble yesterday was caused by students. It was the same SWP lunatic fringe who latch onto any protest going.
Secondly I have every sympathy with the argument against higher tutition fees. I have 4 kids, if they want a univeristy education I'm potentially looking at £144k (4*4years*£9k). That's 6 years of my take home salary.
Their intellectually capability or educational aspirations may not be the determining factor on wether or not they get a quality education.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DCowling wrote:Ketsbaia
There is difference between making a fool up regardless of size ( and we are paying for it) and actually setting out to cause maximum damage during a protest ( we will end up paying for it through our insurance premiums)
I would like to say I speak for most on here, it is not about the protest nor the reason for the protest but the rampage it turned into.
by your reasoning, if you care passionatley eough about a subject, then you have a right or even an obligation to show that passion by way of destroying other peoples possesions ( interstingly not their own). so from this can we assume that when that select band of football supporters are abroad and are on the rampage, you are sitting in your armchair watching the news, in complete awe as you revel in the passion that is being shown for their beliefs in the world of English Football
You've been sucked into the argument about the means of protest and not the point.
And don't go making leaps of logic that don't stack up to scrutiny. It really doesn't help.0 -
ketsbaia wrote:DCowling wrote:Ketsbaia
There is difference between making a fool up regardless of size ( and we are paying for it) and actually setting out to cause maximum damage during a protest ( we will end up paying for it through our insurance premiums)
I would like to say I speak for most on here, it is not about the protest nor the reason for the protest but the rampage it turned into.
by your reasoning, if you care passionatley eough about a subject, then you have a right or even an obligation to show that passion by way of destroying other peoples possesions ( interstingly not their own). so from this can we assume that when that select band of football supporters are abroad and are on the rampage, you are sitting in your armchair watching the news, in complete awe as you revel in the passion that is being shown for their beliefs in the world of English Football
You've been sucked into the argument about the means of protest and not the point.
And don't go making leaps of logic that don't stack up to scrutiny. It really doesn't help.
Have not been sucked into anything, just pist off with todays society thinking the best way to resolve things is to have a riot and smash things up
I have not made a leap of logic, you stated that you have respect to anyone who has the passion to carry out damage to express their feelings, are you now saying that there is a limit to which you will follow this respect0 -
Il Principe wrote:Sewinman wrote:Il Principe wrote:I'm sorry, but what is it about vandalism and violence that engenders your respect?
They're students for God's sake, how about making their arguments in an intelligent, coherent fashion? But of course smashing stuff up is far easier.
I have very little sympathy. Plans look to ease the burden on the poor (clearly a good thing), and hopefully increased costs will meant that only those who really want/are intellectually capable go to Uni, which is how it should be, and really not how it is at the moment.
You are not going to get on Sky News with an intelligent and coherent argument.
Right, so violence is the only way to raise awareness? What a total load of bollocks that is. How about Brooke Kinsella - peaceful march to raise awareness of knife crime. Pretty sure that got on the news, and now she's heading a Government backed campaign aimed at tacking knife crime... or how about the 1000's of charities that raise awareness and regularly appear on the News/Breakfast TV without resorting to vandalism.
Load. Of. Bollocks.
It not the only way, of course - just a very effective one.0 -
DCowling wrote:ketsbaia wrote:DCowling wrote:Ketsbaia
There is difference between making a fool up regardless of size ( and we are paying for it) and actually setting out to cause maximum damage during a protest ( we will end up paying for it through our insurance premiums)
I would like to say I speak for most on here, it is not about the protest nor the reason for the protest but the rampage it turned into.
by your reasoning, if you care passionatley eough about a subject, then you have a right or even an obligation to show that passion by way of destroying other peoples possesions ( interstingly not their own). so from this can we assume that when that select band of football supporters are abroad and are on the rampage, you are sitting in your armchair watching the news, in complete awe as you revel in the passion that is being shown for their beliefs in the world of English Football
You've been sucked into the argument about the means of protest and not the point.
And don't go making leaps of logic that don't stack up to scrutiny. It really doesn't help.
Have not been sucked into anything, just pist off with todays society thinking the best way to resolve things is to have a riot and smash things up
I have not made a leap of logic, you stated that you have respect to anyone who has the passion to carry out damage to express their feelings, are you now saying that there is a limit to which you will follow this respect
Your first sentence makes my point better than I did.
Your second makes another (wrong) assumption that I'm not going to dignify with an answer.0
