the Cyclo cross racing post

cjcp

antsmithmk wrote:

Crossed wrote:

That Central League course today was pretty hard going I thought.
I did a quick warm-up lap and by the end of that my mud tyres (PDX's) were about as grippy as a set of slicks! I really struggled with the 'spiral of doom' I felt sick by the time I got to the centre every lap but started to feel a bit better by the time I got back out of it onto the straight.

Looking forward to next weekends race now.

Flat courses are hard I think. No downhills to recover or help build speed up. The mud just blocked the tred on my cyclocross kings (continental).

Yep, hard going today. Good point on there being no point where you could recover. I used PDXes too, first outing for them today. They fared better than the Mud2s would have, but a couple of moments where the bike nearly went from under me.

andyp

Were you running the PDXs tubeless?

I rode the London X League Round 8 at Cyclopark in Gravesend today. It was an utter mudfest too. Cracking fun.

cjcp

andyp wrote:

Were you running the PDXs tubeless?

I rode the London X League Round 8 at Cyclopark in Gravesend today. It was an utter mudfest too. Cracking fun.

Clinchers. Really like them. Tubs are the next upgrade...

The straights felt harder than last week at the Bowl, and I'm not sure if that's down to it being a flatter and faster course or wider tyres on a lower psi than last week.

cjcp

andyp wrote:

Were you running the PDXs tubeless?

I rode the London X League Round 8 at Cyclopark in Gravesend today. It was an utter mudfest too. Cracking fun.

You on tubs?

andyp

I'm running tubeless for now, so Michelin Mud2s on Iron Cross rims today, but will be glueing up some tubs this week.

DavidBelcher

Seriously "gloopy" conditions always seem to work better for me. Could be down to the low gears I run which make it easier to keep turning the pedals without stalling, or maybe the 8-speed rear transmission which clogs less easily than narrower blocks & chains do. I was 35th of 65 finishers (across all categories in my race) in yesterday's Notts & Derby mudbath and really enjoyed it, although it was tough work in places with some tricky - and slippery - cambered stuff. Just to top it all, the rain started up again just before the race began!! It's a wonder the bike kept going after all of the debris it picked up, but somehow it kept moving, although some intensive washing was needed ready for today's West Midlands race....

....which was also hard work, slippery in parts, but left the bike much cleaner. There were some tricky ascents and descents at Blackwell, some of which I resorted to running purely to avoid coming a cropper. The wooden step to tackle at the top of a climb was an unpleasant surprise too! As with Nottingham, a good course though and would definitely race there again. Markeaton Park at Derby awaits next Saturday, could be an interesting one compared to when I raced it during much drier times earlier in the season!

David

tgotb

cjcp wrote:

antsmithmk wrote:

Crossed wrote:

That Central League course today was pretty hard going I thought.
I did a quick warm-up lap and by the end of that my mud tyres (PDX's) were about as grippy as a set of slicks! I really struggled with the 'spiral of doom' I felt sick by the time I got to the centre every lap but started to feel a bit better by the time I got back out of it onto the straight.

Looking forward to next weekends race now.

Flat courses are hard I think. No downhills to recover or help build speed up. The mud just blocked the tred on my cyclocross kings (continental).

Yep, hard going today. Good point on there being no point where you could recover. I used PDXes too, first outing for them today. They fared better than the Mud2s would have, but a couple of moments where the bike nearly went from under me.

Biggest problem for me was a lack of opportunity (with my limited skills) to get the power down. I could hold my own or gain distance on the straights, but was losing on the corners. Pretty confident the issue was skill rather than tyres...

crossed

TGOTB wrote:

cjcp wrote:

antsmithmk wrote:

Crossed wrote:

That Central League course today was pretty hard going I thought.
I did a quick warm-up lap and by the end of that my mud tyres (PDX's) were about as grippy as a set of slicks! I really struggled with the 'spiral of doom' I felt sick by the time I got to the centre every lap but started to feel a bit better by the time I got back out of it onto the straight.

Looking forward to next weekends race now.

Flat courses are hard I think. No downhills to recover or help build speed up. The mud just blocked the tred on my cyclocross kings (continental).

Yep, hard going today. Good point on there being no point where you could recover. I used PDXes too, first outing for them today. They fared better than the Mud2s would have, but a couple of moments where the bike nearly went from under me.

Biggest problem for me was a lack of opportunity (with my limited skills) to get the power down. I could hold my own or gain distance on the straights, but was losing on the corners. Pretty confident the issue was skill rather than tyres...

It's funny, I was struggling the other way.
I'd catch riders up in the corners or at the hurdles but then they'd leave me on the straights. I was like this with one or two guys for about three or four laps and in the end I just went for it and hoped I wouldn't blow up when I tried to get away from them. Thankfully I didn't so I managed to get away from them.
I don't think I've ever pushed so hard before to finish a race in what was probably around 30th place :shock:

One bonus yesterday was that I was gridded as I'd pre-entered. I basically went full gas for the first half a lap or so then backed off a little which got me past the worst of the bottlenecks on the opening lap. Needless to say I started dropping places after that but it was what I'd expected anyway!

cyclingsheep

Crossed wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

cjcp wrote:

antsmithmk wrote:

Crossed wrote:

That Central League course today was pretty hard going I thought.
I did a quick warm-up lap and by the end of that my mud tyres (PDX's) were about as grippy as a set of slicks! I really struggled with the 'spiral of doom' I felt sick by the time I got to the centre every lap but started to feel a bit better by the time I got back out of it onto the straight.

Looking forward to next weekends race now.

Flat courses are hard I think. No downhills to recover or help build speed up. The mud just blocked the tred on my cyclocross kings (continental).

Yep, hard going today. Good point on there being no point where you could recover. I used PDXes too, first outing for them today. They fared better than the Mud2s would have, but a couple of moments where the bike nearly went from under me.

Biggest problem for me was a lack of opportunity (with my limited skills) to get the power down. I could hold my own or gain distance on the straights, but was losing on the corners. Pretty confident the issue was skill rather than tyres...

It's funny, I was struggling the other way.
I'd catch riders up in the corners or at the hurdles but then they'd leave me on the straights. I was like this with one or two guys for about three or four laps and in the end I just went for it and hoped I wouldn't blow up when I tried to get away from them. Thankfully I didn't so I managed to get away from them.
I don't think I've ever pushed so hard before to finish a race in what was probably around 30th place :shock:

One bonus yesterday was that I was gridded as I'd pre-entered. I basically went full gas for the first half a lap or so then backed off a little which got me past the worst of the bottlenecks on the opening lap. Needless to say I started dropping places after that but it was what I'd expected anyway!

That pretty much sums up my race as well, except for the part about being able to pull away from anyone on the straights

cyclingsheep

Have heard from my team mate who crashed yesterday. "I fell on the first lap just before the sand pit - my front wheel fell into a concrete channel on the RHS of the LH bend and I just tram-lined along it at speed, then got thrown out, cartwheeled across the course, came to rest and found my collarbone was broken - I felt it go this time." That's his season done as he'll need an op to put it back together he thinks. And here was me thinking CX was safer than road racing....

mpatts

Crossed wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

cjcp wrote:

antsmithmk wrote:

Crossed wrote:

That Central League course today was pretty hard going I thought.
I did a quick warm-up lap and by the end of that my mud tyres (PDX's) were about as grippy as a set of slicks! I really struggled with the 'spiral of doom' I felt sick by the time I got to the centre every lap but started to feel a bit better by the time I got back out of it onto the straight.

Looking forward to next weekends race now.

Flat courses are hard I think. No downhills to recover or help build speed up. The mud just blocked the tred on my cyclocross kings (continental).

Yep, hard going today. Good point on there being no point where you could recover. I used PDXes too, first outing for them today. They fared better than the Mud2s would have, but a couple of moments where the bike nearly went from under me.

Biggest problem for me was a lack of opportunity (with my limited skills) to get the power down. I could hold my own or gain distance on the straights, but was losing on the corners. Pretty confident the issue was skill rather than tyres...

It's funny, I was struggling the other way.
I'd catch riders up in the corners or at the hurdles but then they'd leave me on the straights. I was like this with one or two guys for about three or four laps and in the end I just went for it and hoped I wouldn't blow up when I tried to get away from them. Thankfully I didn't so I managed to get away from them.
I don't think I've ever pushed so hard before to finish a race in what was probably around 30th place :shock:

One bonus yesterday was that I was gridded as I'd pre-entered. I basically went full gas for the first half a lap or so then backed off a little which got me past the worst of the bottlenecks on the opening lap. Needless to say I started dropping places after that but it was what I'd expected anyway!

I raced in the novice race at luton yesterday - as did my 8 year old Amy. We had a great time. I ran a half marathon on saturday, this is my excuse for my poor showing - but to be honest I am always useless on the long flat drags, and make up time on the hills/more technical bits. I guess I came about tenth. All great fun though

devhads

One bonus yesterday was that I was gridded as I'd pre-entered. I basically went full gas for the first half a lap or so then backed off a little which got me past the worst of the bottlenecks on the opening lap.

I saw something on a cross video I was watching, either Svenness or BTB 'How the race was won'. The first lap is half the race. Along with ' The sprint in cross is at the start', these are my two racing mantras. I go as hard as I can without blowing up in the first lap then see where I am. The rest is fine tuning, one or two places gained or lost usually after the first lap has stretched the field out.

I liked yesterdays course, I though it was more technical than first appeared, especially riding the spiral. I learnt from the practice lap that riding low pressures to give the grip on the racing line as close to the tape as possible was going to save about 5-10 metres per lap. Along with what cyclingsheep said, high gear, stay smooth so the back wheel doesn't wash out and I think I gained a good amount of time in the spiral.

cjcp

devhads wrote:

One bonus yesterday was that I was gridded as I'd pre-entered. I basically went full gas for the first half a lap or so then backed off a little which got me past the worst of the bottlenecks on the opening lap.

I saw something on a cross video I was watching, either Svenness or BTB 'How the race was won'. The first lap is half the race. Along with ' The sprint in cross is at the start', these are my two racing mantras. I go as hard as I can without blowing up in the first lap then see where I am. The rest is fine tuning, one or two places gained or lost usually after the first lap has stretched the field out.

I liked yesterdays course, I though it was more technical than first appeared, especially riding the spiral. I learnt from the practice lap that riding low pressures to give the grip on the racing line as close to the tape as possible was going to save about 5-10 metres per lap. Along with what cyclingsheep said, high gear, stay smooth so the back wheel doesn't wash out and I think I gained a good amount of time in the spiral.

I'm sort of the opposite, and perhaps this is where i go wrong...

I go for it, but make sure I don't get tangled up in any crashes, and don't red line.

I then try to pick my way through the field - pace is not something i have, so have to rely on stamina.

tgotb

I find that commuting is actually pretty good training for CX. Nail it away from the lights whenever there's a long-ish stretch ahead, make sure you do go into the red, and then ease back to the fastest pace you can only just hold to the next light. Sometimes you'll hit that light on green, which is perfect training for sticking with an unexpected attack. I'm sure people see me gunning off the lights and think, "What a n*b". They're probably right, but it seems to be effective.

Note that if you do this off every single set of lights, or on every single commute, you won't be in a fit state to race at the weekend (or even do midweek CX training) so it's a bit of a balance. I mostly tend to do that stuff early in the week, and particularly outside the CX season.

Edit: The biggest thing I learned (from racing) last season, was that I can actually go well into the red and then recover whilst still riding reasonably hard. That knowledge transformed my TTing, because it gave me the confidence to be more aggressive with the pacing.

devhads

I find that commuting is actually pretty good training for CX. Nail it away from the lights whenever there's a long-ish stretch ahead, make sure you do go into the red, and then ease back to the fastest pace you can only just hold to the next light.

Sounds like good training. Unfortunately I don't have a commute so have to try and replicate this in my training. My weekly training consists of an hour's ride. A group of us go out on an off road route with road crossing, stiles, gates etc. We go full gas from each gate etc, hold the fastest pace we can until the next natural stopping point, wait for the last rider then go again. All in the pitch black with lights which sharpens up your handling no end. Seems to work and you really enjoy the pint in the pub afterwards

I'm sort of the opposite, and perhaps this is where i go wrong...

I don't think you're doing it wrong. The riders at the pointy end troubling the scorers have pace, stamina and skills.

The rest of us have to make do with what we've got and each course will require a different set of characteristics.

VamP

devhads wrote:

One bonus yesterday was that I was gridded as I'd pre-entered. I basically went full gas for the first half a lap or so then backed off a little which got me past the worst of the bottlenecks on the opening lap.

I saw something on a cross video I was watching, either Svenness or BTB 'How the race was won'. The first lap is half the race. Along with ' The sprint in cross is at the start', these are my two racing mantras. I go as hard as I can without blowing up in the first lap then see where I am. The rest is fine tuning, one or two places gained or lost usually after the first lap has stretched the field out.

I liked yesterdays course, I though it was more technical than first appeared, especially riding the spiral. I learnt from the practice lap that riding low pressures to give the grip on the racing line as close to the tape as possible was going to save about 5-10 metres per lap. Along with what cyclingsheep said, high gear, stay smooth so the back wheel doesn't wash out and I think I gained a good amount of time in the spiral.

Didn't break any bikes this week?

On a serious note, now the mud is here I think the importance of the start diminishes, as a) the fields get smaller and bottlenecks become less the norm, and b) good technical ability will more than compensate for a bad start. Which is bad news for me as the start is the only bit I'm good at :roll:

devhads

Didn't break any bikes this week?

No, not this week, I told you I've got two years grace now.

tgotb

VamP wrote:

Which is bad news for me as the start is the only bit I'm good at :roll:

Same here

In other news, I see I'm temporarily ahead of you in the rankings :-)

VamP

TGOTB wrote:

VamP wrote:

Which is bad news for me as the start is the only bit I'm good at :roll:

Same here

In other news, I see I'm temporarily ahead of you in the rankings :-)

Indeed!

I have been underperforming of late. However, the head to head race of truth looms! :twisted:

In all seriousness, I am looking at MK as the absolute highlight of the season, more even than Abergavenny.

Are you doing Regionals this year?

DavidBelcher

cjcp wrote:

I'm sort of the opposite, and perhaps this is where i go wrong...

I go for it, but make sure I don't get tangled up in any crashes, and don't red line.

I then try to pick my way through the field - pace is not something i have, so have to rely on stamina.

Good philosophy, sounds similar to my approach to racing - I don't have much of a "kick" on the flat so invariably have poor starts even when on the second row. I usually end up picking off riders who've tried to keep pace with the bunch on the opening lap then blow up, plus the poorer climbers/runners as those seem to be my strengths these days (dunno where the running ability came from as I was abysmal at any sort of athletics in secondary school - persistence must have paid off in the last 4 years). Conversely I'm not a great descender* after having had some unnerving and occasionally very nasty downhill incidents in recent years, so tend to lose time and placings all too easily on those stretches. I avoid crashes like the plague, as I have to be fit for work on the Monday afterwards in a job which is both physically demanding (e.g. shifting gas cylinders about) yet needs a lot of manual dexterity (e.g. fine-tuning scientific instrumentation), so I can do without getting injured! I guess it's all about playing to individual strengths.

David

*Insert your own Freddie Mercury-based puns here.

tgotb

VamP wrote:

In all seriousness, I am looking at MK as the absolute highlight of the season, more even than Abergavenny.

Very much looking forward to doing battle, I'm expecting a lot of mud! Also hoping for a Svenness video to show us all just how inadequate we are...

VamP wrote:

Are you doing Regionals this year?

As I understand it, you have to do your own Regionals; since mine is at the very farthest end of Kent, on a course that doesn't particularly appeal, probably not :-(

andyp

TGOTB wrote:

As I understand it, you have to do your own Regionals; since mine is at the very farthest end of Kent, on a course that doesn't particularly appeal, probably not :-(

It's great that VC Deal are prepared to step up and host the Regionals, but given it's the South East and Eastern regional championships, I feel sorry for the poor sods in places like Ipswich who have to travel so far to race. I guess it works both ways, but hosting it somewhere more accessible would seem fairer for all.

I'm not going either, even from south east London it's a long way to go for a 45 minute race, especially by train (I don't own a car).

VamP

Hah, you think you have it tough, I am registered in Central region, and that has it's regionals near Torquay! About 6 hours each way for me.

I will ride the one in Deal instead. You can do that, but you are ineligible for medals, which oddly isn't a big worry for me

andyp

Torquay? WTF? Where's the South West regionals being held, Daventry?

cjcp

DavidBelcher wrote:

cjcp wrote:

I'm sort of the opposite, and perhaps this is where i go wrong...

I go for it, but make sure I don't get tangled up in any crashes, and don't red line.

I then try to pick my way through the field - pace is not something i have, so have to rely on stamina.

Good philosophy, sounds similar to my approach to racing - I don't have much of a "kick" on the flat so invariably have poor starts even when on the second row. I usually end up picking off riders who've tried to keep pace with the bunch on the opening lap then blow up, plus the poorer climbers/runners as those seem to be my strengths these days (dunno where the running ability came from as I was abysmal at any sort of athletics in secondary school - persistence must have paid off in the last 4 years). Conversely I'm not a great descender* after having had some unnerving and occasionally very nasty downhill incidents in recent years, so tend to lose time and placings all too easily on those stretches. I avoid crashes like the plague, as I have to be fit for work on the Monday afterwards in a job which is both physically demanding (e.g. shifting gas cylinders about) yet needs a lot of manual dexterity (e.g. fine-tuning scientific instrumentation), so I can do without getting injured! I guess it's all about playing to individual strengths.

David

*Insert your own Freddie Mercury-based puns here.

Yep, I'm fundamentally a bit of a diesel. Straights and climbs are good for me; descents, twists and turns and hopping over stuff, not so much. It also takes me a lap to get a feel for the course in terms of braking distance into the corners and the line I need to take, although I've rectified that to some extent by arriving earlier and doing practice laps.

antsmithmk

The thing with practice laps is that they cake your bike in yet more mud! I've settled for 12 minutes on the turbo to get warm and then a single sighter lap

DavidBelcher

antsmithmk wrote:

The thing with practice laps is that they cake your bike in yet more mud! I've settled for 12 minutes on the turbo to get warm and then a single sighter lap

Practice laps are a bit of a gamble - my bike did indeed get covered at Nottingham on Saturday (but had time to clean it a bit before the race got going), then again I'd rather do a full circuit and find out what awaited (and how best to tackle it) rather than encounter some nasty surprises later on!

David

VamP

andyp wrote:

Torquay? WTF? Where's the South West regionals being held, Daventry?

Together with Central in Torquay. It's mad, Midlands are 50 minutes up the road from me but I don't know anyone in that league so it seems a bit pointless. At least I like the course at Deal, and can car-share with a clubmate (who is Eastern).

VamP

antsmithmk wrote:

The thing with practice laps is that they cake your bike in yet more mud! I've settled for 12 minutes on the turbo to get warm and then a single sighter lap

You need to sort your pre-race cleaning routine. Sighting laps are essential if you want to be in it, the muddier it is the more important to get a feel for the course and to settle your head before the race.

I tend to arrive early enough to get about 8-10 practice laps in, then jetwash the bike clean before the race.

cjcp

VamP wrote:

antsmithmk wrote:

The thing with practice laps is that they cake your bike in yet more mud! I've settled for 12 minutes on the turbo to get warm and then a single sighter lap

You need to sort your pre-race cleaning routine. Sighting laps are essential if you want to be in it, the muddier it is the more important to get a feel for the course and to settle your head before the race.

I tend to arrive early enough to get about 8-10 practice laps in, then jetwash the bike clean before the race.

8-10???!!! I'd need a nap after that! :-)