the Cyclo cross racing post
Comments
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Looks like we won't need to worry about the number of riders now
The following message has been sent to you by the organiser of Central Cyclo Cross League Round 1 (Team Quest) 28/09/2014
CANCELLED
It is with great regret that Team Quest have to cancel the event for tomorrow. This is due to circumstances outside of its control.
The event has been notified that it has no event commissaire available, without a commissaire the event cannot proceed. I am fully aware that it is very late notice but as a club it has been working with British Cycling to try and resolve this issue since Thursday. All avenues have been persued in trying to come to a solution with local league officials and regional BC officials.
We will Try to reschedule the event within the current season dependant on venue availability.
Riders entry fees will be refunded during this week. Once again Team Quest apologise for this outcome.
Regards,
Stephanie May, Mark Doel co-organisers for Team Quest.0 -
Got to say I'm pretty disappointed with that. How can you not get a commissaire for an event in London?0
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Looks like 3 league races tomorrow cancelled for various reasons. Expect a bunfight at the ones that are still running.
I am heading north instead of south in a bid to beat the crowds
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VamP wrote:Looks like 3 league races tomorrow cancelled for various reasons. Expect a bunfight at the ones that are still running.
I am heading north instead of south in a bid to beat the crowds
What else is cancelled? Is Herne Hill? I've never raced there but haven't heard great things about it.0 -
antsmithmk wrote:Got to say I'm pretty disappointed with that. How can you not get a commissaire for an event in London?
Because not enough people are prepared to give up their time for free? And because the London League has a round in London on the same day?0 -
andyp wrote:antsmithmk wrote:Got to say I'm pretty disappointed with that. How can you not get a commissaire for an event in London?
Because not enough people are prepared to give up their time for free? And because the London League has a round in London on the same day?
I have no idea about putting on an event, but if this one person is crucial to putting on an event, then surely they should be paid. If every rider paid a 50p levy, there would be £150 easy.0 -
antsmithmk wrote:andyp wrote:antsmithmk wrote:Got to say I'm pretty disappointed with that. How can you not get a commissaire for an event in London?
Because not enough people are prepared to give up their time for free? And because the London League has a round in London on the same day?
I have no idea about putting on an event, but if this one person is crucial to putting on an event, then surely they should be paid. If every rider paid a 50p levy, there would be £150 easy.
That's not a bad idea adding 50p to each entry fee to cover costs of a Commissaire, I'm sure that most people wouldn't mind paying the extra if it meant less chance of late cancellations of events.0 -
I don't know for sure, but I think that Commissaires might be paid (though I'm sure we're not talking megabucks).
I'm off to Herne Hill (which is probably going to be mega-busy), mostly because TGOTB junior is after London league points too. Wessex are running an event at Newbury, which might be a less crowded alternative.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
I spent yesterday in Derby for the latest N&D round at Markeaton Park....and boy was it tough!! Any assumptions I had that the race might be less competitive due to a reduced field (knock-on effect of the Three Peaks presumably) were soon blown out of the water. I ended up last-but-one in the Senior Men's category but thankfully managed to finish although for the last lap or two there wasn't a fat lot left in the tank. Good course too; lots of wide, fast bits but some technical stuff as well. And although the conditions weren't especially muddy, the new Clement tyres felt confident enough. No West Midlands racing for me this weekend or next, so it's off to Heanor for more N&D racing on the 4th.
David"It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal0 -
I think it's really just a small contribution towards expenses usually.TGOTB wrote:I don't know for sure, but I think that Commissaires might be paid (though I'm sure we're not talking megabucks).
I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing but cycle sport still depends very very heavily on volunteers. No volunteers, no commissaires.
I'm wondering when the growth in 'cross is going to start to mean that the current regional league structure has to change. The races are becoming very big and unwieldy in some cases. But then I guess we'd need more volunteers to put on more races...
Ruth0 -
To be honest cyclocross only matters in Belgium... only in Belgium Sven Nys becomes the face for a brand of mayonnaise or a bathroom tiles maker... outside Belgium CX is pretty much irrelevant... even in historic cycling nations like Italy...left the forum March 20230
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The only alternative I can see, which I don't like for a bunch of reasons, is to go down the triathlon route and commercialise the whole thing; then you don't need volunteers because everyone involved is paid.BeaconRuth wrote:
I think it's really just a small contribution towards expenses usually.TGOTB wrote:I don't know for sure, but I think that Commissaires might be paid (though I'm sure we're not talking megabucks).
I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing but cycle sport still depends very very heavily on volunteers. No volunteers, no commissaires.
I'm wondering when the growth in 'cross is going to start to mean that the current regional league structure has to change. The races are becoming very big and unwieldy in some cases. But then I guess we'd need more volunteers to put on more races...
Ruth
I fear the real issue is that so many people are used to this model (sportives are much the same, after all) that they expect to be able to race every weekend without putting anything back in.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
TGOTB wrote:
The only alternative I can see, which I don't like for a bunch of reasons, is to go down the triathlon route and commercialise the whole thing; then you don't need volunteers because everyone involved is paid.BeaconRuth wrote:
I think it's really just a small contribution towards expenses usually.TGOTB wrote:I don't know for sure, but I think that Commissaires might be paid (though I'm sure we're not talking megabucks).
I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or a bad thing but cycle sport still depends very very heavily on volunteers. No volunteers, no commissaires.
I'm wondering when the growth in 'cross is going to start to mean that the current regional league structure has to change. The races are becoming very big and unwieldy in some cases. But then I guess we'd need more volunteers to put on more races...
Ruth
I fear the real issue is that so many people are used to this model (sportives are much the same, after all) that they expect to be able to race every weekend without putting anything back in.
I think you're totally right. The current system is great, and a wonderful grass-roots access to cycle sport for all. It is up to us all to put back into the sport we love so much and to keep it functioning despite the growing participant numbers.0 -
Anyone else for the South West Cyclo-Cross League?
I've done the 1st 2 events & really enjoyed both.
Friendly, well run, and so far, bone dry! Just weighing up whether i can justify £80+ for a pair of challenge chicane tyres. I don't think I'm going to be threatening the podium with or without....
Round 3 is my local event this Sunday.
http://www.cyclo-cross.org.uk/calendar....like it's golden0 -
Exactly, and that's why I can't decide whether everything being voluntary is a good thing or not. Times are achanging.TGOTB wrote:The only alternative I can see, which I don't like for a bunch of reasons, is to go down the triathlon route and commercialise the whole thing; then you don't need volunteers because everyone involved is paid.TGOTB wrote:I fear the real issue is that so many people are used to this model (sportives are much the same, after all) that they expect to be able to race every weekend without putting anything back in.
I think both these points are of great interest. In a rapidly growing sport there will be many people trying it out, finding their feet and still learning about the sport. These are not the people who tend to step up and volunteer. It's the long-established experienced people who often put back the most but as the balance of participation swings towards newcomers the old-hands end up being put upon and burning out in their desire to accommodate everyone.VamP wrote:I think you're totally right. The current system is great, and a wonderful grass-roots access to cycle sport for all. It is up to us all to put back into the sport we love so much and to keep it functioning despite the growing participant numbers.
Nice problem to have. I wonder if BC really understands the issue and is doing anything about it strategically? Or will 'cross just have to find its own way because it's not an Olympic sport?
Ruth0 -
So does that mean we shouldn't strive to get our sport as recognised here as it is there? It's a great sport for grass roots cyclists, helps handling skills in places where you're less likely to get seriously hurt. I say plug it for all it's worth but those that ride also need to help with the organisation of races so it doesn't get commercialised.ugo.santalucia wrote:To be honest cyclocross only matters in Belgium... only in Belgium Sven Nys becomes the face for a brand of mayonnaise or a bathroom tiles maker... outside Belgium CX is pretty much irrelevant... even in historic cycling nations like Italy...0 -
As someone entering a cyclo cross race for the very first time at the tender age of 44...it is the low key, grass roots, inclusive nature of cyclocross that encourages me to join in. As things get bigger and more 'formal' then the barriers to entry and costs tend to grow in my opinion. Take enduro for example...£60 race entry for the last one I looked at.
Being honest, it will be a while before i have any interest in 'helping out' and that's purely because I don't know if it's the sport for me yet. You need people to learn to love a sport purely by doing it, and building up the relationships, fellowhsip and social side of the sport, before you can expect them to take part in running it.0 -
cyclingsheep wrote:So does that mean we shouldn't strive to get our sport as recognised here as it is there? It's a great sport for grass roots cyclists, helps handling skills in places where you're less likely to get seriously hurt. I say plug it for all it's worth but those that ride also need to help with the organisation of races so it doesn't get commercialised.
I am just saying that if there is no money to be made, there won't be money injected... if it was an olympic sport it would be a completely different ball game...
Cyclocross has become irrelevant in the cycling scene, as it's no longer used by PROs in winter... you can thank the Tour Down Under and the races in the middle East and South America for that. Hopefully the World cup in MK will put Britain on the map, but I am not holding my breath for CX becoming the next big thing... once the novelty of disc brakes and hydraulics will wear off, even manufacturers will have less interest in CX bikesleft the forum March 20230 -
My biggest concern about commercialisation isn't so much the cost (though paying £30+ every weekend would add up pretty quickly) as the wider impact it might have on the sport. Would we see kids' races abandoned because they make a loss? Would entry fees rise further to cover the cost of a medal and souvenir T-shirt for every competitor, or because venues want their cut of the profit? Would we lose venues because they don't want to host a commercial operation?BeaconRuth wrote:
Exactly, and that's why I can't decide whether everything being voluntary is a good thing or not. Times are achanging.TGOTB wrote:The only alternative I can see, which I don't like for a bunch of reasons, is to go down the triathlon route and commercialise the whole thing; then you don't need volunteers because everyone involved is paid.
Maybe there's a half-way house where you pay all volunteers a small amount to cover costs. That seems wrong to me, and maybe it wouldn't solve the problem anyway, but harder to put together a rational argument against it.
I did a TT on the A11/A14 this year, and one of the marshalls at the turn had his son with him, shouting like mad at every rider, and ringing a cowbell. That's what all of us with kids should be doing!Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
If you consider the sport of cycling as a whole, though, there's plenty of opportunity to contribute by helping out in events you wouldn't actually take part in. For instance, last weekend I pushed off 90-odd riders in our hill climb on Saturday and then raced CX on Sunday, and I've probably completed more road races driving the lead car than I have on a bike. Conversely, when we run TTs, we encourage our road racers to help run the event.97th choice wrote:You need people to learn to love a sport purely by doing it, and building up the relationships, fellowhsip and social side of the sport, before you can expect them to take part in running it.Pannier, 120rpm.0 -
That's exactly how it should be - you dip your toe in the water and try things, learn to love them, get more involved and then, when you feel part of the community you volunteer to put something back.97th choice wrote:Being honest, it will be a while before i have any interest in 'helping out' and that's purely because I don't know if it's the sport for me yet. You need people to learn to love a sport purely by doing it, and building up the relationships, fellowhsip and social side of the sport, before you can expect them to take part in running it.
The problem for a sport comes when there are very large numbers doing exactly that - starting out in the sport with only a small nucleus of experienced volunteers.
Sounds great and you're right. A culture of volunteering and supporting can be developed with the right messages and encouragement from the leadership of a sport - hence my idle thought about what BC are doing about it. I expect it all falls on the shoulders of the hard working league committees.TGOTB wrote:I did a TT on the A11/A14 this year, and one of the marshalls at the turn had his son with him, shouting like mad at every rider, and ringing a cowbell. That's what all of us with kids should be doing!
I should say that from what I saw of the West Mids 'cross league in recent years none of this seemed to be a major problem - I'm only commenting because a league race elsewhere was cancelled for lack of a commissaire.
Ruth0 -
TGOTB wrote:
If you consider the sport of cycling as a whole, though, there's plenty of opportunity to contribute by helping out in events you wouldn't actually take part in. For instance, last weekend I pushed off 90-odd riders in our hill climb on Saturday and then raced CX on Sunday, and I've probably completed more road races driving the lead car than I have on a bike. Conversely, when we run TTs, we encourage our road racers to help run the event.97th choice wrote:You need people to learn to love a sport purely by doing it, and building up the relationships, fellowhsip and social side of the sport, before you can expect them to take part in running it.
So you have a long club affiliation, in varying disciplines which is great.
I'm actually approaching racing for the first time from a different perspective. I joined a cycling club as a vehicle to enable me to enter cyclo cross races. Maybe that suggests in my area that cycle clubs aren't as open and welcoming as they should be. It may be a great club to be part of, but it certainly hasn't done enough to advertise itself.
I was on a CX training day last week, almost everyone there was already a member of a cycling club who were looking to try CX for the first time. You could imagine them getting involved in the organisational side pretty quickly as you would assume they have carried out similar roles for their preferred disciplines.0 -
Anyhow, the exciting thing here is that I'm entering my first ever cyclocross race on sunday! Onwards, to worrying about tyre pressure and not tripping myself up too much on the dismount.0
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ugo.santalucia wrote:Cyclocross has become irrelevant in the cycling scene, as it's no longer used by PROs in winter... you can thank the Tour Down Under and the races in the middle East and South America for that. Hopefully the World cup in MK will put Britain on the map, but I am not holding my breath for CX becoming the next big thing... once the novelty of disc brakes and hydraulics will wear off, even manufacturers will have less interest in CX bikes
I'm sorry, but that is complete rubbish. CX is hugely popular and growing in the US, based on it being a participation sport that anyone can have a go at. I've been racing cross for sometime now in the UK, and fields are getting bigger and bigger each season. There were 90 riders in the Vets and Women's race at HH on Sunday, with almost the same in the Seniors race, which is way more than a few years ago where you'd get less than that for a race combining all three categories.
Manufacturers sell large quantities of cyclocross bikes, the majority of which are used for commuting and family rides, rather than for racing, so they'll continue to market them as the perfect all round bike that can turn it's hand to any type of riding.
The challenge for the sport is to get more of those people into races.0 -
@AndyP - Completely agree. I took a mate and his son along to a CX race last year, and he described it as "the most accessible sport that no-one's ever heard of". Neither of them had ever ridden a bike competitively, but the son's now racing regularly in the Wessex league, and the dad's waiting for his new CX bike to arrive :-)Pannier, 120rpm.0
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I am not sure why ugo is making such fantastical proclamations, but anyone who gets themselves along to a Sunday league knows it's nonsense.
The issue isn't whether cross has a future, rather how that future is managed and supported. It's an issue of growth, not stagnation.0 -
97th choice wrote:
I was on a CX training day last week, almost everyone there was already a member of a cycling club who were looking to try CX for the first time. You could imagine them getting involved in the organisational side pretty quickly as you would assume they have carried out similar roles for their preferred disciplines.
You might assume that but my experience at my club is that in any discipline it is always the same core of volunteers. As my club has expanded it's membership the number of volunteers hasn't grown accordingly. I get that those just starting want to gain experience first and I'm in the same boat but would rather help than have a race cancelled. As others have said CX is booming right now in the UK but the majority are new to the sport so are hesitant to miss a race. Maybe if clubs are running an event suggest their own riders refrain from racing unless they volunteer to help on the day? Then they can race at other clubs events?0 -
cyclingsheep wrote:97th choice wrote:
I was on a CX training day last week, almost everyone there was already a member of a cycling club who were looking to try CX for the first time. You could imagine them getting involved in the organisational side pretty quickly as you would assume they have carried out similar roles for their preferred disciplines.
You might assume that but my experience at my club is that in any discipline it is always the same core of volunteers. As my club has expanded it's membership the number of volunteers hasn't grown accordingly. I get that those just starting want to gain experience first and I'm in the same boat but would rather help than have a race cancelled. As others have said CX is booming right now in the UK but the majority are new to the sport so are hesitant to miss a race. Maybe if clubs are running an event suggest their own riders refrain from racing unless they volunteer to help on the day? Then they can race at other clubs events?
Well the series I have entered only scores 6 from 8. I don't know whether that is deliberate to allow people to organise their own races and attend others? or simply to allow people to miss a race or two over the season.0 -
VamP wrote:I am not sure why ugo is making such fantastical proclamations, but anyone who gets themselves along to a Sunday league knows it's nonsense.
The issue isn't whether cross has a future, rather how that future is managed and supported. It's an issue of growth, not stagnation.
I think the surge in popularity at amateur level is a reflection of 2 wheels sports in general being more popular in this country... from club rides and commutes, to time trials, to road races and BMX everything is more popular... is British Cycling or anyone else ever going to pump money in Cyclocross in the UK? No way... it's not an Olympic sport, there is no money in the cyclocross circus in general, they don't care, they won't care. Even if the next Sven Nys was British, it still wouldn't make things different, because he will never go as far as being the next face of Gillette. The only thing that would change things is if the IOC introduced CX in the olympic calendar, then maybe there would be a chance... or the other possibility is that for some reason the UCI decided that cyclocross has to be much bigger and some asian investors decided it's perfect for the racing scene in Indonesia, Malaysia and China... then BC would get all excited and decide that's where Britain should do well... but that is not likely to happen in the foreseeable futureleft the forum March 20230 -
There's no money in cyclocross in the US either, just like there isn't in say rock climbing. That doesn't prevent grass roots growth. One might even say that the sport is better for not being over-commercialized. It's just a really great all inclusive family friendly format.
In any case, go to a few league races, and then tell us what you see.0
