Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
-
surista wrote:I'm puzzled by Contador's quote: "You can put your hand in the fire and not get burned,"
What was the original Spanish (I'm assuming it was Spanish?) and what does this mean? Doesn't this sound like he's saying 'you can play with fire an dnot get burned, this time I got burned'?
I think it might be a mis-translation.
In Italian, we say that we can put our hands on a fire about a subject, if we mean to say we are innocent: the fire won't burn your hand if you are innocent, according to a mythological belief from Roman times.0 -
Pokerface wrote:I really want to believe he is innocent.
But the whole story is just too far-fetched. It just smacks of being made up.
• It could ONLY have come from some tainted meat
• That was brought in from Spain by a friend
• And the ONLY other person from the team that got tested at the same time was Vino
• Who conveniently didn't eat any of the meat 'cause he had already eaten
(The whole story neatly wraps everything up in a bow to explain why no other rider on Astana or any other team tested positive. It's what a lawyer would call "reasonable doubt")
If you believe any of it at all of course.
"I ate my dog's homework""If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
NJK wrote:He got his excuse in pretty quick. 'Ah, yes it was that spanish meat that i ate and no one else on the team ate' laughable!! Just like the dominance of spanish cyclists!
I'm not defending Contador here, but that doesn't work. The whole team could've been positive at that time, they weren't tested though. The only other rider who was tested was Vino, and he didn't eat the alleged offending meat.
Would've been interesting if the whole team had been tested, and no one else was positive though.0 -
Apart from being very far-fetched, the meat story also seems easily verifiable - I bet right now there are already journalists at that butcher's doorstep asking where he sources his meat0
-
I cant believe the UCI were keen to crack on with this knowing the sort of headlines it would bring but what choice did they have?
In terms of where we are now the bottom line is that there was a banned substance in the 2010 TdF champion.
If you believe the dodgy meat defence then what do you suggest happens? UCI say sorry for all the trouble- on your way AC and you can keep the yellow jersey. I dont see how that can be done and any credibility retained (leaving aside people's views on whether the UCI have any credibility).0 -
FJS wrote:Apart from being very far-fetched, the meat story also seems easily verifiable - I bet right now there are already journalists at that butcher's doorstep asking where he sources his meat
you would think..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Indeed. i think it was very odd how the UCI's first comments were not very neutral; the UCI started the '400 times less than the amount required to be detected', which is irrelevant red herring.smithy21 wrote:I cant believe the UCI were keen to crack on with this knowing the sort of headlines it would bring but what choice did they have?
In terms of where we are now the bottom line is that there was a banned substance in the 2010 TdF champion.
If you believe the dodgy meat defence then what do you suggest happens? UCI say sorry for all the trouble- on your way AC and you can keep the yellow jersey. I dont see how that can be done and any credibility retained (leaving aside people's views on whether the UCI have any credibility).0 -
On the positive side, at least Valverde now has a new training mate. They could start up "Real Champions CC".
0 -
FJS wrote:Apart from being very far-fetched, the meat story also seems easily verifiable - I bet right now there are already journalists at that butcher's doorstep asking where he sources his meat
Sorry if I am being overly cynical here but haven't other 'interested parties' had over a month to visit this butcher to ensure that he sources his meat where they 'think' that he does ?0 -
hammerite wrote:NJK wrote:He got his excuse in pretty quick. 'Ah, yes it was that spanish meat that i ate and no one else on the team ate' laughable!! Just like the dominance of spanish cyclists!
I'm not defending Contador here, but that doesn't work. The whole team could've been positive at that time, they weren't tested though. The only other rider who was tested was Vino, and he didn't eat the alleged offending meat.
Would've been interesting if the whole team had been tested, and no one else was positive though.
True. My mistake.0 -
If you've eaten lean Irish beef you've probably ingested clenbuterol, as it's used to optimize the livestock prior to being sold for slaughter.0
-
0
-
I was interested to find some data on the absorption of clenbuterol from contaminated meat and after a little bit of research I found quite an interesting article. It is old but there is no reason to doubt the quality of the data presented in it. A link to the original article is at the bottom of the post but I am unsure if it will open from a regular public internet connection- journals are fussy about who can access their online content!
The study in question looked at the pharmacokinetic characteristics of clenbuterol in Veal calves, with particular emphasis on the elimination half-life and determining residue levels of the drug in various tissues and organs. In this study the animals were dosed with 5µg/kg clenbuterol which is approximately 5 times the normal therapeutic dose. Dose levels of this kind are comparable to that used by farmers to increase muscle mass in cattle. What was striking about the study is the highest levels of clenbuterol, or residues of clenbuterol, can be found in the eye, liver and lung of the animal with much smaller amounts found in muscle and fat. What is the significance of this I hear you cry…
Well, a therapeutic dose in humans is between 5-20µg (equates to approx 0.33µg/kg) and that based on the levels of clenbuterol found in the lung or liver, an individual would need to consume between 100-200 g of lung, liver or eye. In order to achieve the same level from eating muscle would require at least 10 times more!!
A simple calculation shows that if AC did get clenbuterol in his system from eating contaminated meat he would have needed to consume at least 1-2kg of steak (muscle). I find it hard to fathom that even a very hungry pro-tour rider would eat that much meat in one sitting never mind over two days.
But what is all of this telling us. That although it is possible AC produced a positive from eating contaminated meat, the more likely scenario is from a blood transfusion.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/69/11/4538.pdf0 -
I had some dodgy meat once. Had the two bob bits for days.0
-
There is an article on CN saying it could have come from a supplement. So how does Contador know it came from his steak, or is he just guessing?Mañana0
-
Le Commentateur wrote:If you've eaten lean Irish beef you've probably ingested clenbuterol, as it's used to optimize the livestock prior to being sold for slaughter.
Haven't the EU banned it's use?0 -
Cycling Weekly's report on this has a completely different version of the events.
"During the press conference, Contador shifted blame on to the hotel in Pau where his team were staying (along with Saxo Bank, Liquigas, Katusha) during the race's final Pyrenean stages. Contador claimed that on the rest day, he and his team mates returned late from a training ride and ate food from the hotel, rather than having it prepared by the team's chef.
He went on to say that the meat was of poor quality and that he was cautious of it at the time."
I thought it was a friend who brought the meat from Spain - but this story blames the hotel. WTF?0 -
bsm2dj wrote:I was interested to find some data on the absorption of clenbuterol from contaminated meat and after a little bit of research I found quite an interesting article. It is old but there is no reason to doubt the quality of the data presented in it. A link to the original article is at the bottom of the post but I am unsure if it will open from a regular public internet connection- journals are fussy about who can access their online content!
The study in question looked at the pharmacokinetic characteristics of clenbuterol in Veal calves, with particular emphasis on the elimination half-life and determining residue levels of the drug in various tissues and organs. In this study the animals were dosed with 5µg/kg clenbuterol which is approximately 5 times the normal therapeutic dose. Dose levels of this kind are comparable to that used by farmers to increase muscle mass in cattle. What was striking about the study is the highest levels of clenbuterol, or residues of clenbuterol, can be found in the eye, liver and lung of the animal with much smaller amounts found in muscle and fat. What is the significance of this I hear you cry…
Well, a therapeutic dose in humans is between 5-20µg (equates to approx 0.33µg/kg) and that based on the levels of clenbuterol found in the lung or liver, an individual would need to consume between 100-200 g of lung, liver or eye. In order to achieve the same level from eating muscle would require at least 10 times more!!
A simple calculation shows that if AC did get clenbuterol in his system from eating contaminated meat he would have needed to consume at least 1-2kg of steak (muscle). I find it hard to fathom that even a very hungry pro-tour rider would eat that much meat in one sitting never mind over two days.
But what is all of this telling us. That although it is possible AC produced a positive from eating contaminated meat, the more likely scenario is from a blood transfusion.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/69/11/4538.pdf
He might have had liver for tea that night?0 -
frenchfighter wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-press-conference-tour-de-france-winner-blames-food-for-positive-test
"It's actually impossible to take such a small amount," he continued. "The administration of it is just not possible. So this points again to food contamination. Moreover, regarding performance, this amount is totally insufficient and doesn't serve anything."
Maybe he had a large amount that had already cleared his system??0 -
pb21 wrote:There is an article on CN saying it could have come from a supplement. So how does Contador know it came from his steak, or is he just guessing?
It seems beyond doubt that the team of a Tour de France favourite checks and double checks the supplements they take for any banned substances..... just like they wouldn't use any old bit of food they get thrown at them for dinner.......0 -
cajun_cyclist wrote:By itself, I'd say Clenbuterol gets some use by bodybuilders, I looked it up once, it's like a steroid or something, they may inject cattle with it too.
Clen is NOT a steroid. It elevates the heart rate and increases the rate at which the body burns calories. It is for stripping fat only. Think of it like a stronger version of Ephedrine.0 -
"This outcome was reported by the accredited laboratory in Cologne to the UCI and WADA, at the same time. The concentration found in the laboratory was estimated at 50 picograms (or 0000 000 000 05 g / ml."
That's 50 trillionths of a gram - is food contamination really that unbelievable?0 -
It should be noted that Alain Baxter was eventually cleared but didn't get his medal back as it was a couple of years later.
In a way, I hope AC gets it in the neck becasue if he doesn't, no one will ever take anything seriously again. And don't forget that Landis had been tested numerous times in hte same race before he got a +ive result and was clean each timeI have only two things to say to that; Bo***cks0 -
Poor translation? That Cycling Weekly angle is complete rubbish - just checked as.comPokerface wrote:Cycling Weekly's report on this has a completely different version of the events.
"During the press conference, Contador shifted blame on to the hotel in Pau where his team were staying (along with Saxo Bank, Liquigas, Katusha) during the race's final Pyrenean stages. Contador claimed that on the rest day, he and his team mates returned late from a training ride and ate food from the hotel, rather than having it prepared by the team's chef.
He went on to say that the meat was of poor quality and that he was cautious of it at the time."
I thought it was a friend who brought the meat from Spain - but this story blames the hotel. WTF?
pathetic0 -
Next we'll find out that the Spanish bulls the meat came from were drinking Jack Daniels by the bucket load just before they were slaughtered. At least we can agree on one thing... Something came up from Spain in a refrigerated vehicle that evening.
So even if AC is proved innocent will ASO with its zero tolerance policy allow him back to defend his title. I would answer no.
Secondly if AC is proven guilty and the offence took place on French soil, then will he be facing a criminal prosecution ? I'm not sure of the exact laws but I believe there are some that make certain acts of doping a criminal offence in France.0 -
bsm2dj wrote:I was interested to find some data on the absorption of clenbuterol from contaminated meat and after a little bit of research I found quite an interesting article. It is old but there is no reason to doubt the quality of the data presented in it. A link to the original article is at the bottom of the post but I am unsure if it will open from a regular public internet connection- journals are fussy about who can access their online content!
The study in question looked at the pharmacokinetic characteristics of clenbuterol in Veal calves, with particular emphasis on the elimination half-life and determining residue levels of the drug in various tissues and organs. In this study the animals were dosed with 5µg/kg clenbuterol which is approximately 5 times the normal therapeutic dose. Dose levels of this kind are comparable to that used by farmers to increase muscle mass in cattle. What was striking about the study is the highest levels of clenbuterol, or residues of clenbuterol, can be found in the eye, liver and lung of the animal with much smaller amounts found in muscle and fat. What is the significance of this I hear you cry…
Well, a therapeutic dose in humans is between 5-20µg (equates to approx 0.33µg/kg) and that based on the levels of clenbuterol found in the lung or liver, an individual would need to consume between 100-200 g of lung, liver or eye. In order to achieve the same level from eating muscle would require at least 10 times more!!
A simple calculation shows that if AC did get clenbuterol in his system from eating contaminated meat he would have needed to consume at least 1-2kg of steak (muscle). I find it hard to fathom that even a very hungry pro-tour rider would eat that much meat in one sitting never mind over two days.
But what is all of this telling us. That although it is possible AC produced a positive from eating contaminated meat, the more likely scenario is from a blood transfusion.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/69/11/4538.pdf
Sorry - are you saying he would need 2kg to achieve therapeutic levels of clenbuterol or that if would take 2kg to produce the 400 picograms they found in his urine?0 -
meenaghman wrote:At least we can agree on one thing... Something came up from Spain in a refrigerated vehicle that evening. Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
-
clanton wrote:bsm2dj wrote:I was interested to find some data on the absorption of clenbuterol from contaminated meat and after a little bit of research I found quite an interesting article. It is old but there is no reason to doubt the quality of the data presented in it. A link to the original article is at the bottom of the post but I am unsure if it will open from a regular public internet connection- journals are fussy about who can access their online content!
The study in question looked at the pharmacokinetic characteristics of clenbuterol in Veal calves, with particular emphasis on the elimination half-life and determining residue levels of the drug in various tissues and organs. In this study the animals were dosed with 5µg/kg clenbuterol which is approximately 5 times the normal therapeutic dose. Dose levels of this kind are comparable to that used by farmers to increase muscle mass in cattle. What was striking about the study is the highest levels of clenbuterol, or residues of clenbuterol, can be found in the eye, liver and lung of the animal with much smaller amounts found in muscle and fat. What is the significance of this I hear you cry…
Well, a therapeutic dose in humans is between 5-20µg (equates to approx 0.33µg/kg) and that based on the levels of clenbuterol found in the lung or liver, an individual would need to consume between 100-200 g of lung, liver or eye. In order to achieve the same level from eating muscle would require at least 10 times more!!
A simple calculation shows that if AC did get clenbuterol in his system from eating contaminated meat he would have needed to consume at least 1-2kg of steak (muscle). I find it hard to fathom that even a very hungry pro-tour rider would eat that much meat in one sitting never mind over two days.
But what is all of this telling us. That although it is possible AC produced a positive from eating contaminated meat, the more likely scenario is from a blood transfusion.
http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/69/11/4538.pdf
Sorry - are you saying he would need 2kg to achieve therapeutic levels of clenbuterol or that if would take 2kg to produce the 400 picograms they found in his urine?
Well, from the study data presented you would need to eat 2kg of contaminated meat (not liver, eye or lung as the residue content was much higher), which would equate to a therapeutic dose. By and large the actual level of drug in the blood or urine would be much lower than that ingested and it would decrease by approximately 50% every 20-30 hours.
I'm not sure how much he would have needed to have eaten to achieve the levels found in his urine without doing some complex calculations. But bear in mind that the level determined in urine is only a point in time and doesn't necessarily reflect the actual dose taken...0 -
Will Astana get a tour invite next year? I think not. Poor old Vino :-)0
